Barbara and I, first date.................
 

with the Sachtler, scheduled to ship ex Munich week beginning 15 Nov.

............my, you lot have impure thoughts!


CS

Balancing the Canon with the Takumar 85-210mm
 

I dont know for certain, but i suspect you could use the Vinten extended camera slide plate with the 1/4" screw and get somewhere near. The camera body could be attached one end of the plate and itll allow you to slide the body way back. It'll only fit the Vinten heads though.

Vinten | Extended Camera Slide Plate with 2x 3/8 " Screws | www.vinten.com

Peter,

Thanks. I'll try to determine the CG and see how that matches up with the extended plate. If I were to buy today, I'd probably go with the Vision Blue if I knew it would work with these type DSLR set-ups.


Chris,

Thanks for the mention of the Zero Gravity unit. I saw it when it came out and I was shooting with an A1, but hadn't really thought about it for using with a DSLR, which makes sense. There doesn't seem to be a lot of thoughtful reviews or even informal feedback on that particular unit. Has it been favorably accepted by the pros?

G'day, Peter...............
 

You sure that's the correct plate, Peter?

On B&H the 3330 - 33 is listed as for the HD - 250.

They also have the 3364 - 900SP listed for the Vision 8, 11, 100 & 250 and the 3449 - 900SP listed for the Vision 3 & 6.

Can't see any difference from the piccies, but that doesn't mean much. Not exactly cheap, either.

Even if the plate wasn't long enough to do the job, it may be usefull if you do have to go for a rail system to suport the front of the lens.

Roger:

I wouldn't like to say definatively one way or the other about acceptance by pro's, but it's low profie is, I believe, due to them not addressing those issues I mentioned in my previous post, and they are pretty substantial issues.

If they want to send me one, I can give 'em (and DVinfo) chapter and verse.


CS

OK, input from the Forum required...............
 

In an effort to make this shootout as painless as possible (huh!), I'm attempting to design a standard form to display as much of the relevant information for each system as possible.

This will allow me to simply print parameters down the LHS and enter the relevant information for each system, side by side, enabling you to simply run your eyes along the row to see which unit does what and how.

It will also reduce the amount of info I need to include in the text which, with this many systems, will make it's retrieval an absolute nightmare.

So, for anyone familiar with Consumer magazine (they must have one in the States, surely?) you get a mountain of info in a handleable form allowing you to compare everything with everything else.

I will possibly enter the same data for my control system (does anyone need to ask?) for comparison purposes.

So, I'm going to attach the rough draft I've knocked up so far and see if anyone can come up with anything they think needs adding, deleting or amending.

Don't worry about either the layout or wording, this is a REAL rough draft.

I'd especially welcome any input from the manufacturers / suppliers involved here.

So folks, on your marks, get set, go..................


CS

Chris,

Good start. A couple of things come to mind:

Overall:
- Retail price
- Warranty terms
- Release date
- Country of Mfg

Head:
- Handle dia.

Tripod:

- Bowl size(size or N/A)
- Foot type (rubber pad, spike, multi-spike, retractable spike...)
- Adjustable center column? (Y/N) <- not sure equipment at this level ever has center columns

Geesh.............
 

Make me feel like a complete twit why don't you?

How could I have left those out (got the bowl/ ball diameter tho').

The only pro video gear I know of that have extendible columns are studio pedestals, not entirely certain I'm ever going to get into that league, but who knows?

Duly added to list.

Thanks, Roger.

I'll post the amended list tomorrow.

Keep those cards and letters rolling in folks, the more the merrier.

I'm hoping to get this so standardised it can apply to any video support system ever made.

Gone extremely quiet on the Miller and Libec fronts, still don't know what Miller are going to put forward and my "Catch you on Monday" from Libec hasn't happened even tho' it's now "end of play" Tuesday.

Stay tuned.


CS

Extended camera plate
 

B&H say its for the Vision HD250, but itll fit all Vinten heads cos they all use the same plate.

Chris,

Organizational skills are the first to go when stressed! : )

It's funny about the center column thing. Very cheap tripods often have adjustable centers (tend to wag in the wind) and very expensive tripods have much more complex centers. Given the increasingly light camera payloads, perhaps someone will innovate a great adjustable center integrated with a bowl that allows really high shots that can be conveniently leveled. I think many of us find ourselves in a situation from time to time where 6-7' is needed.

By the way, I was having some dialogue with Varizoom on the Zero Gravity following your suggestion and I made them aware of this evaluation and invited them to contact you with a sample. You never know.

Thanks, gents.........
 

Peter:

You got any comments on the hit list? Love to hear 'em, if so.

Roger:

Thanks for that, keep my fingers crossed. Nice to put any doubts about the Varizoom to bed once and for all.

Updated list attached.

Anyone with any more?


CS

Chris,

A minor one, but one that I found important - size of mounting plate. I have found some of them are crazily long and make hand-holding the camcorder a chore. It's more of a comfort item than a performance item.

e.g. My late Sachtler's Touch & Go plate had a small footprint that didn't affect hand-holding. Some others I have used are long and dig into my hand.

Also, and again it's minor - do all tripods have eyes/hooks for a shoulder strap? is a shoulder strap supplied? My Sachtler had this (although it was an optional extra). Libecs didn't (back then, at least), nor Manfrottos. Some Millers come with a shoulder strap built in. This is useful when you need a quick set-up and don't want to fumble round with a padded bag.

Hi, Mike............
 

Mounting/ slide plate dimensions - going onto list now.

Got shoulder strap, tho' wording probably needs tidying.

Thanks heaps, every little bit helps!


CS

Latest version..................
 

Coming together nicely..........................



CS

Yippee................
 

Libec is in with a RS250 system.

Ducks in row, it's game on!


CS

Update..................
 

Version 4 of the review parameters.

I have had quite a few additional additions suggested, but they all fell into the "subjective" category and thus candidates for the shootout stage, where I have to quantify the imponderables and for me, unmeasureable with scientific accuracy.

Now THAT list is going to be a doosy.


CS

Chris you annouced a shootout review of tripods on October 19th - I can't find it anywhere.

Just received a 505HD head - I have mixed feelings about this head. Will do a few more tests with it (Sony EX3 camera mounted on it) before I publish my review.

I look forward to reading your views.

Chris,

Can you give and ETA for the shootout testing and results. I've had my finger on the trigger for a Vinten Vision Blue and would appreciate knowing whether this review is something you will be pulling off by year's end or will it be later?

I'm not trying to rush you, just want to sync up my near term buying.

Thanks!

Well...........
 

Best guess as to timing, I might just squeak this in before Christmas, but it'll be a tight squeak and no mistake.

I have the Vision Blue and have had for months, the Sachtler is shipped and can only be days away at most, of the Libec, Miller and Manfrotto there is no declared shipping date as yet, I will try yet again today to get an answer.

I will, hopefully, have my new support system test rig up and running by the end of this weekend, barring major problems.

Then there is the testing itself, the photography, which takes days and is totally weather dependent (a dicey proposition in this part at this time of year),the data collation which will be pretty exhausting, actually writing not only the individual reviews but then the shootout itself, getting everything to Chris at DVinfo and the monstrous job of DVinfo staff actually getting it laid out in some meaningfull manner for publication [transfering humungous Excel spreadsheets for on - line publication is not for the faint of heart!].

Actually, Christmas is starting to look like a near impossibility.

Er, Vincent:

Do you mean 504HD or have Manfrotto released yet another new head?

EX3? Manfrotto? Sorry, I don't want to assume anything, but based on previous experience, I would have said that wouldn't be a happy pairing.

Mixed feelings? I bet you have.

Nope, you ain't going to find the shootout till it actually gets published, which will be, well, refer to the above. What you've seen so far was the gestation and birth of the idea and the long haul getting it to fruition.

Do bear in mind, as far as anyone can recollect, this is an industry first. Nobody has managed to get Vinten, Sachtler, Libec, Miller and Manfrotto in the same line up together, ever.

It's not quite as easy as it might look, tho' it has been a lot easier than I thought.

Roger:

Have you actually taken a Blue for a test drive yet?

If not, I strongly urge you to do so before you take the plunge.

I say that only because it is one of the few systems out there where it is possible to get a test drive, in real operating conditions, Vinten bending over backwards if necessary.

None of the other manufacturers have cottoned onto this idea of customer service, avail yourself of the opportunity.

More, as and when.


CS

I eagerly await a first hand report on how the RS250 stacks up against the others. I very nearly pulled the trigger on one a while back (sorry to guys over at Tapeworks Texas) & if I can ever find funds again in this current economy I'm still considering it.

Chris,

How would one go about test driving the Vinten? Do they offer a trial period through their network? I as of yet haven't seen it listed anywhere except on internet sites, and most point back to B&H at this early date.

Easy..............
 

You fire a mail to Peter Harman ( Vintens [World] Product Manager, Peter.Harman@VitecGroup.com ) and ask him nicely if he can set it up through your nearest dealer.

If Peter can, he does, if he can't, he will anyway (he's that type of guy).


CS

505, 504, 540 - damm I must buy a new keyboard soooon.

Yes, Chris I think you have a point about using the EX3 on a Manfrotto head, at least the 504 doesn't let it crash down - unless you have all the balance settings set to zero, then it could be a heart stopping spectacular show.

Just as another thoughtt, have you seen or taken a look at the e-image tripod range especially the E-image EI-7083 - seems like a nice bit of kit and at a very good price.

You've got me there.............
 

Untill you mentioned them, I'd never heard of them.

Web site looks impressive.

I'll make a few inquiries and see what happens, nothing to lose.


CS

PS: I've mailed their sales team in China, let's see what happens.

E-Image is one of those less-known imports. ProAV seems to push them quite hard. I've seen some reviews on here before, including a video review, but it is hard to judge when it's not a direct comparison with more well-known brands.

Edit:

See here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tripod-s...-vs-other.html

I have used the E-image EI-7083 and it is a very good tripod kit that will support the EX3 without any problem. The tripod is made in China and may have a few rough edges compared to say a Vinten or Sachtler. But for someone wanting a well priced unit then the e-image is a good investment.

Awesome news Chris. Looking forward to your feedback. I'm keen on the 504HD but even more attached to the Cine DSLR. Sachtler makes good stuff and i do not have a great experience with the 503HDV. I wonder when will BH photo have stocks of the CineDSLR for testing.

MY contribution would be to test the DSLR directly on the tripods.. some are designed for rigs but i really think many of us would be mounting a camera directly.

Ah, availability...........
 

From what I understand, Sachtler couldn't source a CINE DSLR rig for this shootout, as they had nothing in stock and the entire next shipment was pre sold already.

Now THAT'S impressive!

If there's anyone who knows who's going to have what Sachtler gear, when (and there's a double edged sword here) it's going to be Barbara ( Barbara.Joumann@VitecGroup.com ) who would be worth contacting if you really must know.

However, the "double edged sword" is that ultimately, she has little control over the supply chain and no one and nothing is immune to lifes' "sh*t happens" events.

I take comfort from the fact that after the dust of this shootout has settled and the database of support systems is established (did I not mention that?), when I eventually do get my sticky fingers on a CINE DSLR, it's details and shootout scores will go straight up there alongside all the others for direct comparisons to be made.

Going to be quite an amazing resource in a year or two's time, and it will all be here on DVinfo, so don't change that dial, ladies and gents.

The shootout itself is progressing through the planning stages with no more than the expected "Houston, we have a problem" moments.

As the guy who fell off the Empire State was heard to say as he passed the 50th floor "So far, so good!".


CS

Ummmm before you hit the ground, you might want to add "Folded Length" to the Tripod and System sections. I think I've single handedly boosted B&H's hit count this week looking up the weight and length specs on various tripods and tripod systems. Anyone looking for something travel friendly is keenly interested in weight and length numbers.

Good thought.............
 

But I beat you to it.

Version 7 ready to roll.............

Er, make that 7a.

Nope, 7b.

Nope, make that 7c.


CS

PS:

Any mathematicians here who would like to confirm my calculations that at 17.18 metres radius, 1 minute of arc = 5 mm?

Gitzo Series 3 Systematic tripod and G1380 head?
 

Thanks for doing this Chris, highly appreciated.
Since you will be testing a Miller system, it would be interesting to compare it to a Gitzo set. The legs are in many ways similar. Gitzo makes them in four different lengths!

Hi, Jyrki..............
 

Well, I've checked out the Gitzo web site and thought, hmm, I dunno.

I've put it to the experts at Vitec for their opinion.

Personnally I think it would be comparing apples with bananas, but then, what would I know, never played with a set.

Update time:

Took delivery the other day of a Sachtler FSB 6 (0407), CF 75 SpeedLock sticks (4588), mid level spreader and boots (7011) and a Cine DSLR slide plate (number not found).

First impression: Wow! What a tidy parcel it is. SpeedLock system is a Godsend for the spinally challenged (count me in that group!) and incredibly efficient.

The head is so compact it looks like it shrank in the wash, it's small but perfectly formed and, going on the brief play to date, works as smoothly as you'd expect from a Sachtler.

Overall, it reminds me of a racing greyhound in top condition.

Testing begins in earnest today with any luck.

Not getting much feedback on the parameters for the objective data sheet.

This thing is going to keep morphing as I find new stuff on all this kit, so I don''t expect it to be "finalised" till the smoke has cleared down the track.

Version 8 attached.

Those CF 75 legs certainly are beautiful, Chris. I miss mine so badly!

It has been remarked that I'm a bit of a "leg man". I'm sure they mean tripods, not anything else...

Remind us, Mike.............
 

What delusional state were you in when you gave the CF 75's the flick?

Dang,, they're so pretty I'd like to hang 'em on the wall as art!


CS

For what it is worth, I did not like the Cine DSLR plate, and I am returning it for another "standard" FSB quick release plate.

It is true that the Cine DSLR plate allows the DSLR to sit up a bit, and also prevents twisting. However, it is long and heavy. If you are using a hand-held rig (like a Zacuto Gorilla) then the Cine DSLR plate will not work attached to the bottom of the Gorilla plate) but a standard FSB quick release plate will. Likewise, if you have a follow focus or rails system, a standard plate will work, but the Cine DSLR plate will not (at least I don't think it will).

Others mileage may vary.

Hi, Richard.........
 

Yeah, it really is a "horses for courses" item.

I've had a couple of problems with it already.

The screw attached backstop dohicky was so high it snagged on the rear of both my SLR's, so just had to go, which just left the front and rear stops as anti - twist points, neither much good from a balance point of view.

As I haven''t got the standard plate yet (nor the bottom spreader - you taking notes, Barbara?) I then had to figure out how to get my camcorders mounted on it.

On that plate it's the platform or nothing, but luckily the front and rear stops on the platforrm are almost the same height and both camcorder bases could span them both.

Not ideal from a pressure point perspective but I'm not planiing on dropping a loaded plate any time soon.

In it's defense, neither of my DSLR's are HD video capable, so may not share the same body build, and I can just guess at the size of some of the lenses going on those beasts, which that plate will handle with ease.

BTW, if you think that plate is long, I got the Vinten long plate with the Sachtler gear. The Sachtler is about 22 cm, graduated from 0 to 20 in cm. The Vinten is over 28 cm!


CS

OK, update time again...........
 

No response from E - Image in China, I'll try their Australian distributor and see what gives, tomorrow.

I've decided to put a hold on the Gitzo's, for no other reason than the current shootout is already doing my head in.

Fear not, however.

Due to me being able to standardise the data sheet with all objective data for every single system I review, plus being able to do the same for the actual review itself, every system reviewed in future will be directly comparable to every other system reviewed in the past.

In short, there will be a comprehensive database of info, plus my part objective, part subjective personal review to boot, all here on DVinfo.

I'm hoping that we will be able to sort some clever software that will allow a comprehensive, side by side comparison of any three or four systems, across manufacturers, at the click of a button.

Look, was that a squadron of pink pigs flying over just then?

Moving on, the real life photo shoot started on the Sachtler today (ah, sun, don't you just love it) plus some serious testing.

Found my first "Oooh, I won't do that again" with the FSB 6 head. Scary or what!

Had my Canon XH A1 parked up on top and was doing counterbalance/ drag figures.

Had the drag set to 1, the CB at 1. Tilted the rig forward to get a better look at what I was doing and switched the drag to 0 and the CB to 2.

Whoops! Wallop! The entire rig took off downwards like a Saturn 5 missile.

No damage done but note to self: Switching CB disconnects CB entirely untill it has re - engaged, hold pan bar if zero drag set!

More as and when.


CS

Chris - I thought it was a good idea at the time, as part of my kit downsizing. In hindsight I maybe should've just sold the head and kept those lovely legs!

Manfrotto 504HD
 

I just want to make sure that you have been able to access a 504HD system for your test. It is a marked improvement over and different than any Manfrotto "fluid" head I have distributed previously. FYI - We will be introducing the 509HD at NAB 2011 which will be the 504HD's bigger brother.
Thanks,
A very interested (and biased) obsever - Manfrotto US Sales and Product Manager

Chris,

I'd like to offer my services to long-term-test several of the tripods after you are through with them I figure I can publish my results in 10 years. Earlier would be irresponsible and unworthy of the fine craftsmanship and reputations concerned. You can PM me for the shipping address : )

Hi, guys..................
 

You know, some of the dumbest things I've ever done have been filed in that drawer!



Well, dang, doesn't that beat all! Where have you guys been hiding?

Welcome aboard, Wayne, good to have you on DVinfo.

You familiar with our other Vitec reps here - Peter (Can Do!) Harman and Barbara (This is how it works**) Joumann?

Are you the "go to" guy in the States for 504HD test drives then?

Well, I think so. (Ignores resultant ominous silence).

Both the Libec and the Manfrotto are being supplied by distributors, which is always fraught, as any test gear comes straight off their bottom line and they're caught between a rock and a hard place if the manufacturer gets ratty about a review the distributor has commissioned.

With both I'd feel a heck of a lot better if only they'd answer mails in a timely fashion (you listening, guys?).

I have my fingers crossed and saying prayers, but always work on a "if I ain't got a package on the doorstep, I ain't got........." basis.

Stay tuned to this channel for the next exciting episode.


You know, that's kinda funny, in a sad sort of way (not you Roger, no, no, no).

Waaay back when this was being planned, I thought, I'm gonna have some of the most amazing camera support gear on the planet here, in my living room, in little old one horse town (sans equine component) Dunedin.

I reckoned there'd be guys (and maybe guyesses) who'd gnaw their right arms off to get to play with this stuff.

Phone the local video club, get squat. Phone anybody and everybody I can think of who has anything to do with video, get squat.

I gave up, significantly disillusioned.

Maybe I should have found the horse.


CS

** Spoken with a charming Bavarian accent.