Proper LCD calibration for video colorgrading

Brian Tori · September 17th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Does anyone know if the Nvidia GTS 250 has the Y Cb Cr colorspace option that Nik refers to? I am considering an upgrade to that model.

Also, Nik, I am also using PPro combined with my Nvidia 9500GT graphics card to send an SD signal to my SD monitor for color correction of HD projects. The problem I am having is that during pans, tilts, or any sort of motion in the image, there seems to be a tearing effect in the image. The color seems good on my monitor but this issue is distracting. Do you have this issue when monitoring out of Premiere? I have a feeling it is a sub-standard graphics card that can't keep up.

Martin Chab · November 23rd, 2009, 05:57 AM

Let me put some more fire on this discussion.
I think everyone here should agree with me that color theory, displays, grading and so on is a subject full of myths and unclear statements, not to say very few knowledge.
In fact the base of all this, the color theories, are very subjective, partial and old (even with all the new technologies the color definition continue to be slippery and the standards were created in the years 29 and 31, all the other standards are slight modifications of that original ones).
If you don´t believe me just take a look at the definition of daylight in the ASTM. It says something like: daylight is the light casted in spring in souther California during midday in a clear day without clouds. And many industries use that as a standard!!!! Or look at how is measured the CRI (color render index of light sources) a method where a small amount of observers look at colored cards and rate how good it matches.
There is a lot of misconceptions too and many believe that the ONLY way do do a proper color correction is to invest in a multimillion dollar broadcast monitor and that is simply not true.
To illustrate this let me tell you a small story. Past year i made a series of works for cinema transfer. There were very extreme gradings from an HD footage to be printed on 35mm. We worked with Nordisk Lab, perhaps the most reputed lab and postproduction house in the whole europe and with a very skilled team of engineers that, not only run the labs but develop equipment in house like the Cinevator, a real time printer capable of print 35mm positives without internegative from any digital source, machine developed in house and now selling all around the world. If there is someone who knows practically how to match images are them.
Big was my surprise when in my second visit with the aim to check the calibration of my cheap monitor calibrated with an eye1 pro we went with the technical chief of the lab to the Flame and color correction station and i saw that they were using a regular Panasonic plasma TV. He explain to me that they were making some tests an Arri were there making calibration so they use the opportunity to buy a plasma and test the result. They were so happy that they continue to use it. I was not satisfied with the explanation so we moved to another color correction room where they have a big Sony broadcasting CRT (the aforementioned million bucks monitor) to see that the footage was not visually distinguishable from one room to the other.
In fact with my cheap NEC Spectraview 2690 monitor i was able to match every single emulsion with a near perfect result.
To say that an eye1 pro is not good to calibrate a video monitor for color correction because it was designed for printing is like to say that you cant cook a piece of good filet mignon in a bakery oven because it was not designed for that. Of course each oven has its own advantages but you can make bread or cook a filet mignon on both the bakery oven or the oven that is in your kitchen.
More than that, if you know the parameters that you need to "fit to" in your calibration, the eye1 will provide a detailed table of the deviations, point by point, from the targets with absolute values and standard deviations, and if the errors are small enough i don´t see why that calibration wouldn't be good enough.
Of course not all monitors will do and some will show large deviations from the targets.
To finish, past week we made a series of tests using a JVC broadcast monitor calibrating it with color bars only and the result was far from good. The grading done was shown ok in many monitors (including normal tv sets) but the JVC.
For me the lesson is that the most important is to find a practical way to make your footage match all the devices during the workflow, if you use a high end system of not, if i match everything to the point that no eye can recognize the differences i´m happy with that.
My two cents to this discussion.

Joel Arvidsson · January 29th, 2010, 04:18 PM

How do you get you colors normal with the NEC Spectraview 2690?or more precise get them to work in the applications. After Effect support icc profile final cut pro seams to not work. So they got super saturated green and red. Which applications do you run. Fcp, shake, nuke? and how do you fix the supersaturated red and green.

September 17th, 2009, 05:35 PM	#46
Brian Tori Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 408	Does anyone know if the Nvidia GTS 250 has the Y Cb Cr colorspace option that Nik refers to? I am considering an upgrade to that model. Also, Nik, I am also using PPro combined with my Nvidia 9500GT graphics card to send an SD signal to my SD monitor for color correction of HD projects. The problem I am having is that during pans, tilts, or any sort of motion in the image, there seems to be a tearing effect in the image. The color seems good on my monitor but this issue is distracting. Do you have this issue when monitoring out of Premiere? I have a feeling it is a sub-standard graphics card that can't keep up.

November 23rd, 2009, 05:57 AM	#47
Martin Chab Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Malmo Sweden Posts: 103	Let me put some more fire on this discussion. I think everyone here should agree with me that color theory, displays, grading and so on is a subject full of myths and unclear statements, not to say very few knowledge. In fact the base of all this, the color theories, are very subjective, partial and old (even with all the new technologies the color definition continue to be slippery and the standards were created in the years 29 and 31, all the other standards are slight modifications of that original ones). If you don´t believe me just take a look at the definition of daylight in the ASTM. It says something like: daylight is the light casted in spring in souther California during midday in a clear day without clouds. And many industries use that as a standard!!!! Or look at how is measured the CRI (color render index of light sources) a method where a small amount of observers look at colored cards and rate how good it matches. There is a lot of misconceptions too and many believe that the ONLY way do do a proper color correction is to invest in a multimillion dollar broadcast monitor and that is simply not true. To illustrate this let me tell you a small story. Past year i made a series of works for cinema transfer. There were very extreme gradings from an HD footage to be printed on 35mm. We worked with Nordisk Lab, perhaps the most reputed lab and postproduction house in the whole europe and with a very skilled team of engineers that, not only run the labs but develop equipment in house like the Cinevator, a real time printer capable of print 35mm positives without internegative from any digital source, machine developed in house and now selling all around the world. If there is someone who knows practically how to match images are them. Big was my surprise when in my second visit with the aim to check the calibration of my cheap monitor calibrated with an eye1 pro we went with the technical chief of the lab to the Flame and color correction station and i saw that they were using a regular Panasonic plasma TV. He explain to me that they were making some tests an Arri were there making calibration so they use the opportunity to buy a plasma and test the result. They were so happy that they continue to use it. I was not satisfied with the explanation so we moved to another color correction room where they have a big Sony broadcasting CRT (the aforementioned million bucks monitor) to see that the footage was not visually distinguishable from one room to the other. In fact with my cheap NEC Spectraview 2690 monitor i was able to match every single emulsion with a near perfect result. To say that an eye1 pro is not good to calibrate a video monitor for color correction because it was designed for printing is like to say that you cant cook a piece of good filet mignon in a bakery oven because it was not designed for that. Of course each oven has its own advantages but you can make bread or cook a filet mignon on both the bakery oven or the oven that is in your kitchen. More than that, if you know the parameters that you need to "fit to" in your calibration, the eye1 will provide a detailed table of the deviations, point by point, from the targets with absolute values and standard deviations, and if the errors are small enough i don´t see why that calibration wouldn't be good enough. Of course not all monitors will do and some will show large deviations from the targets. To finish, past week we made a series of tests using a JVC broadcast monitor calibrating it with color bars only and the result was far from good. The grading done was shown ok in many monitors (including normal tv sets) but the JVC. For me the lesson is that the most important is to find a practical way to make your footage match all the devices during the workflow, if you use a high end system of not, if i match everything to the point that no eye can recognize the differences i´m happy with that. My two cents to this discussion.

January 29th, 2010, 04:18 PM	#48
Joel Arvidsson Tourist Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 1	How do you get you colors normal with the NEC Spectraview 2690?or more precise get them to work in the applications. After Effect support icc profile final cut pro seams to not work. So they got super saturated green and red. Which applications do you run. Fcp, shake, nuke? and how do you fix the supersaturated red and green.