Cinematographer ? what's that ?

[James Manford]

Steve, and there we have it !

Give it another 10-15 years ... when 8k ultra definition videography is the norm at weddings, brides won't be looking for videographers or cinematographers anymore ... it will be some new made up name like I don't know ... Ultraographer and Ultraography ... ha !

[Don Bloom]

Brotha Steven,
I wonder if he's the same guy I've met a few times around here?

Honestly who care what they call me? I'm a cameraman first and foremost and while I don't shoot film anymore, I did, back in the late 60s and early 70's. Super 8 and 8mm. So do my "home movies" qualify me as a cinematographer? I doubt it.
Ask Charles Papert what he is? He's done major motion pictures, TV series, and now is still doing one and unless I'm wrong, I don't think he's shooting film.

Like I said before, call me whatever....hell, call me Santa Claus...just spell my name right on the check!

[Charles Papert]

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

Ask Charles Papert what he is? He's done major motion pictures, TV series, and now is still doing one and unless I'm wrong, I don't think he's shooting film.

Well, I'll tell ya, guys. The old ways are the old ways, and I'm learning to put them behind me. I was legitimately getting paid work as a DP (aka cinematographer--in the US at least, they are entirely interchangeable terms) for three years shooting corporates, industrials and small commercials before I felt comfortable calling myself that--I used the term "lighting cameraman" up until that point. Somewhere around the RED and DSLR era (as social media was on the upswing, and everyone became their own hype man), the last bastion of humility disappeared and high school kids started calling themselves DP's. It is what it is.

As far as the term cinematographer appearing in the wedding world, that's just more of the same. Honestly, I've seen some very lovely work in that medium in the past few years and I wouldn't know where to draw the line against that.

As for shooting film--last time I did it was about 3 years ago. We shot with a 5DMKII in the morning and 35mm Panavision in the afternoon.

I don't know if I'll ever shoot film again.

[Bernie Johansen]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Seriously guys, does it REALLY matter what you call yourself?? As long as the orders keep coming in I certainly don't mind what I am called

^^this

I've put some combined packages with a photographer who has a little studio in a busy area that is open to the public during business hours, and I was fronting the shop a couple of days a week for her a few months ago (but have since stopped), when...

A lady came into the shop wanting a package list for photos, I showed her ours and also our combined packages, mentioned that I'm our videographer and she asked, "oh - do you do cinematography as well or just videography?"

-_- fml srsly?

So I explained that I think it's splitting hairs - I explained my style, all but my cheapest package includes a single feature film-length video generally between 90 and 120 featuring montages etc., also with a very cinematic online teaser video, all filmed in sparkly HD and she was all like "OH OKAY, THANK YOU!!" and left never to be heard from again.

I have noticed that at least one other videographer in town has separate packages for videography and cinematography.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Bernie

I actually had a bride ask me "How many cinematographers do you have?" .. I patiently told her that a cinematographer is someone who directs the cameramen and is on movie sets not wedding shoots. I just couldn't help myself and to my surprise she emailed back and apologised for her "ignorance" and booked me!!

Probably she had been on a few other sites and found the word and it sounded good. I guess if she insisted on having me as a cinematographer then that's what I am.

Chris

[James Manford]

I think everyone should just start calling themselves cinematographers ... because I kid you not, i've seen a shed load of businesses where they combine ordinary videography with the odd 1 or 2 DSLR shot thrown in and these guys claim they are cinematographers.

To the regular bride/groom THEY ARE. And these companies that i've been watching are getting loads of business as they are regularly posting new videos online.

In my opinion the word 'cinematographer' is something that's just replaced the word videographer because these DSLR fan boys needed a easy way to describe their new large sensor video footage to average joe on the streets.

I still don't have the balls to call myself a cinematographer. I always say i'm a videographer but film in a contemporary cinematic and documentary style. So you get a mix of both. Because essentially that's what I do ... I try and get my large sensor beauty shots with depth of field etc but then have important stuff with focus everywhere using a proper video camera. So it's the best of both worlds.

[Daniel Latimer]

Originally Posted by James Manford

In my opinion the word 'cinematographer' is something that's just replaced the word videographer because these DSLR fan boys

Ha. ZING!

[Clive McLaughlin]

Not to start a row... but...

DSLR does kind of give a bit of DOF like what you'd expect to see at...

the cinema.

Its a pretty good way to describe the effect.

Some people want 'cinematic'.

as opposed to a 90's low budget soap look...

...ZING


Like I said before on this thread. Words develop, and their meaning changes depending on people's perseption.

Not many people use the word gay to mean happy anymore.

lets not dictionary bash. Or job is to understand the consumer, and figure out what they want, even if it means decyphering their choice of words.

END OF

[Noa Put]

DSLR does kind of give a bit of DOF like what you'd expect to see at...

the cinema.

I agree, add a bit of glidecam action to that and you are a cinematographer to your clients.

[Paul Mailath]

I still can't do it - I know and work with a number or 'real' cinematographers and I feel like I'd be denigrating their knowledge and expertise. I think you can turn the situation around and explain how using the term is a sign of inexperience not expertise

[Chris Harding]

When it comes down to accurate meanings there are plenty of other "terms" that are not as they seem too!

"Professional" simply means that you are doing it for money ..it doesn't mean you are good! In fact as long as you charge a fee you are a professional ..good or bad.

There was an article a while back also about whether one is a professional, an expert or a specialist but all three don't have to mean a stunning end product or even an acceptable one.

In the same context I guess we could quite easily have good, mediocre and even terrible cinematographers? I notice that wedding photogs don't call themselves any fancy names ?? I wonder why they haven't latched on to names that might make marketing more productive?

Chris

[Mark Von Lanken]

Just me, personally, I have been too hung up on titles, but as a business owner, I realize words convey an image in marketing my business.

About 10 years ago clients told us that our wedding videos were more like a movie than a wedding video, so we started using the phrase Artistic Wedding Cinematography as a way to describe and market our "wedding videos".

I think it's interesting that in some industries, like the news, a "photographer" is the camera operator, but in weddings, a "photographer" is the person who takes pictures. We all know that a "news photographer" is different than a "wedding photographer", much like a "cinematographer" is different than a "wedding cinematographer".

Do filmmakers have to use film? Do "wedding cinematographers" have to direct a crew on a film/movie set? I certainly do not consider myself a film/movie cinematographer, but when it is within my control, I do make the decisions and direct my crew on camera placements, movement, lenses, lighting and audio.

[Bernie Johansen]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

I notice that wedding photogs don't call themselves any fancy names ?? I wonder why they haven't latched on to names that might make marketing more productive?

Actually I have a photographer friend who has changed the second word in her business name from 'photography' to 'photographics'. I guess fancier words means people think you're more knowledgeable?

[Arthur Gannis]

Somehow the word "video guy" sounds a lot better than "cinema guy", when being called out by the bride. Perhaps we've been in this business too long and got accustomed to that callout. " Where's that video guy, he should of' been here already."
I just had to put that in.!

[Steven Digges]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

When it comes down to accurate meanings there are plenty of other "terms" that are not as they seem too!

"Professional" simply means that you are doing it for money ..it doesn't mean you are good! In fact as long as you charge a fee you are a professional ..good or bad.

There was an article a while back also about whether one is a professional, an expert or a specialist but all three don't have to mean a stunning end product or even an acceptable one.

In the same context I guess we could quite easily have good, mediocre and even terrible cinematographers? I notice that wedding photogs don't call themselves any fancy names ?? I wonder why they haven't latched on to names that might make marketing more productive?

Chris

Your right on Chris! Back in the 80's the American Association of Magazine Photographers (I think it was them) came up with a definition for Professional Photographer. They decided that to qualify as a pro, at least 50% of your annual income had to be from taking pictures.

Also, to become a member of Canon Professional Services, not so many years ago, you had to submit "tear sheets" along with your application. Tear sheets are pictures you had published in magazines or other printed media. If you were not a published photographer you were not considered a pro by many people. Now a days Canon inventory's your equipment purchases for qualification.

Does anyone know of any such standards for us video guys besides a union card? Just curious.

Steve