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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...

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Old January 3rd, 2017, 06:46 PM   #46
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Roger

I'm puzzled? You are supplying parents an SD DVD (so 720x576) yet it's quite practical to live broadcast at 1280x720 so the client is getting an HD stream which will look better than the DVD anyway without any crazy costs. Admittedly 1080 and 4K eats bandwidth so that would raise your data costs. At the moment we can stream on the 4G network at 1280x720 and that costs us around $9.33 for an hours broadcast in bandwidth and of course our edit time is totally eliminated which hopefully is worth substantially more than $10 an hour!! Live Streaming can be very cost effective actually if, of course you could work out the delivery hassles but I guess for now DVD's work and as long as the school is happy stick with the current method and maybe just offer a cloud option and see what the response is for those parents that said they don't have a DVD player
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Old January 4th, 2017, 07:40 AM   #47
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

No Puzzle Chris, I completely agree that streaming would likely give a higher image quality than a DVD even allowing for DVD up scaling, but it is the quality of the production rather than the image quality that I would be concerned about. A live broadcast means it would be impossible to cover the detail in the way that we do now without missing lots of important shots. We would have to do much wider filming to be sure of covering everything, which would lower the production values. As I mentioned before, there is so much rapid dialogue going on from various parts of the stage that it would require more personnel and direction which is not practical.

I'm certainly not ruling it out as I may be overestimating the viewing requirements of the parents and a wider view may be acceptable if it gives immediate viewing possibilities and no editing for us. The jury is still out at the moment.

Naturally there would be no point in doing it if there was no profit involved so I am curious as to how you would envisage the costs for a typical 60 minute streaming. You mentioned $9.33 for the broadcasting but what other costs are involved to set up etc. Also do you get payment from all viewers or is it not a chargeable service? I like the idea of no editing time but editing time is still earning money if it is included in the overall costings. If you're income is reduced because you aren't editing, then that becomes valuable lost time, so the overall income still needs to be there.

I would also be keen to know the sort of equipment and setup costs involved as I am sure that streaming is likely to become the way to go in a number of areas that we are or could be involved in.

Roger
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Old January 4th, 2017, 08:07 AM   #48
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Roger

For a static multicam shoot like a conference or recital we normally use 3 cameras and all feed a pretty much standard i7 computer or a fast laptop. Your switcher software has control of the cameras as well as audio and you can instantly switch between cameras as you have live vision on the screen at all times. You also have 4 "takes" per camera so not only can you switch between 4 different crops on each camera , you can also reframe a camera's POV as you wish. It's basically just a mouse click to switch cameras and again a mouse click to change a preset POV of any camera.

We stream to Livestream and each event we do has a unique URL and event page so it's a "semi-secure" page (unless people share the link) If they pay for the link I think they would be reluctant to pass it over to all their mates anyway but yes it does suffer much the same piracy issues that an online video or even DVD would have. Of course even a password can be shared amongst mates if they want to.

Livestream have a free version of the switching software so if you are bored when the temp drops to negative, download it and have a play!! I think the media has a big part in the future !!
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Old January 4th, 2017, 08:52 AM   #49
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

That's very interesting Chris so it now leads me to ask how you get the camera and audio feeds into your PC?
Do you have a multi input card in the PC or do you use an external hardware interface? Finally, do you use a conventional wifi card in the PC for internet connection or again a proprietory box?

I appreciate the information as it is new territory for me.

Roger
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Old January 4th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #50
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Roger

Without going into too much detail the easiest way of course is via USB (and we do use the upper range Logitech webcams for cutaway shots too) However main cam use a neat little device called a Broadcaster which can actually send the video via any wifi modem back to the computer and it sits on the camera hotshoe. Do a search for "Livestream Broadcaster" and you can get some info on them. As long as the computer and camera are within wifi range you don't need any other equipment or cards. The little Broadcaster units are all you need on a camera to send video back to the computer. The units can also act as "broadcasters" and send video via a 4G wifi hotspot modem to anywhere in the world making a live camera totally portable too!!

If you have time and want to play with the software and have a webcam at home, LIvestream Studio will find the webcam and give you something to play with. The BIG boys usually use cameras on cables with SDI outputs and then their computers have SDI Black Magic Capture cards. The little Broadcaster units eliminate all that.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 03:42 AM   #51
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

The other big question I've always had about using video downloads is the use of music.

Can I set up a site that streams or sells an event (Dance Recital, Choir Concert, or wedding) that uses copyrighted music without opening up a whole can of worms?

The only VOD I currently have for sale was a band that owned the rights to their own music, so it wasn't an issue, but my kids' school has me record all of their plays and choir concerts, and they sing music and arrangements that people own. There are some forward thinking parents who have asked me about making the concerts available via HD downloads/streaming, but the music is the thing always holding me back.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 04:20 AM   #52
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiah Rickert View Post
The other big question I've always had about using video downloads is the use of music.

Can I set up a site that streams or sells an event (Dance Recital, Choir Concert, or wedding) that uses copyrighted music without opening up a whole can of worms?

The only VOD I currently have for sale was a band that owned the rights to their own music, so it wasn't an issue, but my kids' school has me record all of their plays and choir concerts, and they sing music and arrangements that people own. There are some forward thinking parents who have asked me about making the concerts available via HD downloads/streaming, but the music is the thing always holding me back.
If the school are performing the shows to an audience, then they must have the permission of the copyright holders to do that. That is pretty standard as most schools these days buy in scripts and music. Sometimes the copyright permission extends to video rights, but have a chat to the school and find out what their permissions are and maybe contact the rights holder. If the streaming is for parents only via a secure link rather than open internet viewing, it should be straightforward, probably with a credit to the copyright holder. If however the school have taken it on their own backs to just use commercial music, then they are doing so illegally anyway.

Roger
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Old January 5th, 2017, 12:54 PM   #53
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Originally Posted by Jeremiah Rickert View Post
The other big question I've always had about using video downloads is the use of music.
Why would online distribution be any different from DVD in this regard? Don't you need permission to use copyrighted material in a video, regardless of the distribution medium?
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Old January 5th, 2017, 02:16 PM   #54
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff View Post
Why would online distribution be any different from DVD in this regard? Don't you need permission to use copyrighted material in a video, regardless of the distribution medium?
You would always need permission to use copyright material, no matter whether it was music in a production or the script of the production, or in a video or any other distribution media of the copyright material.

The scope of the permission depends on the potential audience. Most schools that I film in the UK, pay for the licence to perform to the parents and usually for the right to produce a limited number of the DVDs. They are only having enough DVDs to cover a very limited and controlled distribution to parents, but it would likely be a totally different situation of the recording was put out as an open internet stream, with an unknown and uncontrolled number of viewers. It's the same in professional broadcasting, where licenses vary according to the territory, potential viewing times and numbers etc.

Roger
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Old January 6th, 2017, 02:41 AM   #55
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

In the UK & Australia unlike the US there is a scheme in place that allows videographers to licence copyright music for use on small production runs of DVDs at a low cost. There is no such scheme available to licence copyright music for online streaming use. As in the US many videographers simply ignore the issue on the basis that they will never get sued.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 07:46 AM   #56
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Generally larger schools don't allow me to sell individual dvds instead pay me a flat fee and some I'm sure make free copies for the cast. Any other small independent dance or drama group play fast and lose with the rules. No doubt selling online increases your chances of having a problem. Most people in this type of business are more worried about trying to eek out enough sales to make a living.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 08:47 AM   #57
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Unfortunately there are a number of issues to overcome with regards to selling downloads vs discs. You have all touched on the copyright and technical sides, (in the UK there is also the safeguarding issue. Schools like the disc format, because they perceive that this means they are controlling the distribution of the video. They presume that this allows them to control who has access to the film, and from their perspective it reduces the need for policing of social media for people posting clips of other peoples children. (One show we filmed I was told by a parent that someone was live streaming the whole thing to facebook from their phone :-)
I have been asked on more than one occasion to confirm when I will destroy my copy of a schools film, as part of their data security policy.. I have declined to do this.

While people don't want a DVD, unfortunately the hurdles to change the format will take time. Its not the technology that's the biggest barrier, its the other factors.

I am in the process of doing a proof of concept for a download only option with an independent school. The idea being that the filming costs are built into the fees, (I realise this doesn't help your situation Roger). But its interesting to try the concept and see how well it works.

Daniel
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Old January 6th, 2017, 09:29 AM   #58
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Daniel,

It's great to hear that you are exploring other avenues and although it doesn't help my immediate situation, it is something that I am also carefully looking into. You are absolutely right about the schools liking the DVDs from the protection of children aspect, which I think I also mentioned in an earlier post.

I also started a new thread on the costs and profitability of streaming which might spark some input from those already doing it or contemplating it. Hopefully it will help with sourcing equipment, hosting etc.

Roger
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Old January 6th, 2017, 02:32 PM   #59
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

I have skipped over a lot of replies but there seems to be general concensus about storage media. The question of delivery of new performances in better file quality seems quite open. I am thinking for small runs it could be feasible to record, edit, place on a cloud like Blue Box ,or whatever the name is, and supplying a link to individual purchasers. Yes, again possible for links to be shared. Someone earlier suggested putting the purchasers name in the link,at least as a detergent. I bought photo book online and the actual product came with me as the owner. This presumably stops/slows people from distributing. Not bad.
Music and other copywriter issues are another area with no easy answer. Mind you Disney probably would sue almost anyone for infrindgement. Here in Canada there is a trade group called SOCAN which collects fees for musicians etc. Part of the performance fees at a theatre are collected by them based on several criteria. In the case of classics, such as Nutcracker, there is no charge. Modern stuff yes. They even tried to charge my dentist for having a radio to sooth his patients. Told them to take a hike and turned off the radio. Now to add injury he breaks into song. More anesthetic please.

I am seriously, as a one man band, so to speak, thinking of offering a purchase of a dvd (usually $20 and adding a download for an additional $5. Not high finance but might increase the dvd sales and add a few bucks. Have to check out storage sizes and download speeds. Will it work for people with a 4k tv? Is it worth shooting in 4k?

Looks like more questions ... answers?

Cheers
Martin
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Old January 7th, 2017, 12:55 PM   #60
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Any suggestions as to where to store files for download? What about videos an hour long shot in 4K? File format to use?

Help....
Martin
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