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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...

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Old January 7th, 2017, 01:58 PM   #61
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Originally Posted by Martin Archer-Shee View Post
Any suggestions as to where to store files for download? What about videos an hour long shot in 4K? File format to use?

Help....
Martin
I can't answer your question, and perhaps you might not want to, either. Are you selling to the average consumer? I produce and sell many DVDs with occasional Blu-rays. Zero is the number of consumers in my sphere who would (1) know what 4k is, (2) be patient to await download of gargantuan hour-long 4k files, and (3) be savvy enough to bounce them to a 4k display.

I shoot in 4k and downrez to 1080p, FYI.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 03:21 PM   #62
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

thanks Steve
Yes you are quite right about how many people would connect all the dots with 4K. I have enough problem myself...

How much difference do you find by shooting in 4K and downing to 1080? Is it worth the time/cost of camera? I expect it is a judgement call.
Reason I ask is that I am seriously thinking of upgrading from a Sony PD 150 with 4x3 screen to a ax100. Yes, I know that would be going from a "Pro" camera to a "consumer" one but quite the difference. How many years? I would need to get a XLR box for board connection.
Thanks for your comments.

Martin
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Old January 7th, 2017, 04:18 PM   #63
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

I'm with Steve on the storage for download, non of my clients are interested in 4K delivery and most people I know still often have problems streaming full HD programmes.

I shoot in 4K and not only does dropping it down to 1080 look better, the ability to crop, zoom into frames and pan from the 4K makes it incredibly fllexible for editing different shots from one clip. I am currently working on a school production that I shot in 4K, and from one general full stage clip I am cutting to close ups, medium shots and across stage pans.

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Old January 7th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #64
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Yep. Totally agree with Roger, concerning shooting in 4k and downrezzing to 1080. I grade 4k source material on a 4k timeline (in Resolve), downrez to 1080 on final export, and add a touch of sharpening on compression for Blu-ray (because I shoot with camera sharpening off). It looks fantastic. FYI, I shoot on a Sony FS700 in 4k DCI; it isn't the most comfortable camera handheld, but on a tripod I have it completely rigged in a cage and with an Atomos Shogun external recorder.

I think you'll notice a substantial increase in image quality from the AX100. What you'll miss, I believe, are the ergonomics and controls of a proper video camera. Depending on how serious you are about audio, you might invest in a separate audio recorder to accompany the AX100, and then sync in post.

Keeping somewhat on topic for this thread, I've begun to lament general disinterest in DVD (and Blu-ray) purchases of various productions. For school clients, patrons don't seem interested in pro-level production or else are content with their deplorable video (and especially audio!) on hand-held devices. I shoot archival copies of some productions for flat fees, and I'm trying hard to achieve the same with typical concert shoots.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 12:14 AM   #65
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Wow. What a read.
Ive been to the Wedding and Event forum before a few times but never realised there were so many of you doing what I mainly do, being the Dance Concert and DVD distribution.

Ive only been doing this a short time, prob 5 or 6 years, and gone from a hobbyist to now doing months on end of live capture and distribution. Mainly from Nov to Jan, being Dance concert season, but also runs during the year of Eisteddfods.

So take any thoughts I have with a grain of salt as Im a bit of a newb compared to a lot of you.

I deliver everything on DVD. The last 2 years we have used structural copy protection on all discs. It has increased sales.
Yes, I know you can crack it, I can crack it, but the average mum or dad couldn’t be bothered, and Ive even been told by some of the parents that they like it so when another parent asks to get a copy, they shut them down and say “No, its copy protected”.
Who wants to lend out what they have paid for……?
Ive recently been in contact with Vinpower digital and my rep says they are finalising USB copy protected USB drives. No doubt they are not uncrackable. But even if its like the DVD protection, it will be enough. Then we can go 1080p. Woo Hoo!

Which leads into my next observation.
I am passionate about this.
I don’t think we can sell the cheapest product, made by the cheapest camera, and hope everyone will be happy with it.
What we can give them on that DVD is precious.
Its a point in time that they and there kids will never be at again. Some of you are right, its not worth $50 or $60…. its worth 10 times that.
I would pay $1000+ to have my 25yo sons drum solo that he did when he was 10 on DVD, 1500 people giving him a standing ovation. I watched from the back of the hall, tears ran down my cheeks I was so proud. It lives in my memory only….
Not long after that I bought my first handycam.

I try to give the schools a better quality than they have had before. Then educate the Principals that this is what you can have, so get your parents to support it.
They do.
The parents themselves are so happy to have quality footage of their kids, they don’t need a lot of encouragement to spend the money. Not a concert goes by that Im not told how much they appreciate that I am there doing the capture. Thats a feelgood experience.
These people arn’t struggling to part with their money, they want to.

All of our repeat business Dance schools have increasing numbers of sales every year.
And we pick up an average of 5 new schools every year.
It has to top out eventually, you can only be in so many places at one time. This year thanks to the help of some talent off this very forum, we did three concerts in three venues in one day.

I guess to sum up, I don’t think the DVD market is shrinking. Not from my experience anyway.
It would be great to do a deal with the schools where every parent pays a fee that entitles them to a download. I thought this would be great.
But in talking to a fair few parents, they still want that DVD.
They want menus, credits, jackets. They want the look on their kids face when they unwrap it Christmas morning (Yes a lot of them do this).

cheers guys
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Old January 10th, 2017, 04:13 AM   #66
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hey Gerald

My mate used to work for a guy over East who did concerts and the like and they used to shoot the event and mix and record to a HDD. When the mum's and dad's came out they could buy an instant USB drive of the entire concert so they was no editing (I'm assuming they simply switched cameras live as the mixer we use for live broadcast also is able to record to an MP4 file) and no delivery hassles ...they simply copied the footage for each parent onto a USB and took their money! I know a USB drive costs more than a blank DVD but you do save on printing, making and printing sleeves and buying cases and I currently buy 8GB USB's for $2.50 each so I'm sure if you bought them in bulk they would be even cheaper, and of course they are getting an HD copy as opposed to a SD one.

It seemed quite an efficient way to distribute the event ?
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Old January 10th, 2017, 05:07 AM   #67
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Originally Posted by Steven Reid View Post

Keeping somewhat on topic for this thread, I've begun to lament general disinterest in DVD (and Blu-ray) purchases of various productions. For school clients, patrons don't seem interested in pro-level production or else are content with their deplorable video (and especially audio!) on hand-held devices. I shoot archival copies of some productions for flat fees, and I'm trying hard to achieve the same with typical concert shoots.
Hi Steve,

I've definitely seen a drop off on DVD sales over the last 12 months from the same schools that have had consistent numbers in the past. As we regularly have schools contacting us to say how delighted parents have been with the recordings, it can't be down to our work so I can only assume less people have players.

I don't agree that parents are content with poor quality video and audio because of the feed back we have always received. We always get good audio quality and with usually four cameras for different angles and closeups, the production values are pretty high for a school show.

Prices are difficult to increase, as parents love the videos, but probably don't appreciate the real value until years later, just as Gerald would love to see his son's drum solo. We tend to keep prices around the school photo level which seems to be about what parents expect. Having said that, a number of photographers are telling me that they are selling less ans less school photos as parents take their own pics on phones.

Roger
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Old January 10th, 2017, 06:54 AM   #68
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Roger

You also have to remember that as videographers, we strive for the best quality we can..it's just our nature! However apart from wobbly or out of focus footage I doubt whether many parents actually "pixel peep" .. I remember a wedding client watching a demo beach wedding on DVD that was shot with my 4:3 cameras (Panasonic MD10000's) with tiny 1/6" CCD sensors and he remarked how clear the picture was on his 55" TV!! I was petrified when he watched the modest 720x576 video on this giant screen (5 years ago 55" was a giant screen as most clients had normal CRT TV's) ... I very much doubt whether mum's and dad's would be that concerned about resolution when their darling in on the screen!!

It's 2017 and brides STILL seem to want DVD's ...now and again a "tech savvy" groom might ask about FULL HD or even 4K but I'm pretty sure most parents don't give a hoot about tech specs as long as it's watchable. More than likely they have dropped the DVD player because some slick salesman at the TV store has convinced them to upgrade. Then again over here Video Stores have all but disappeared from our shopping centres but you can still get DVD movies from vending machines now. However with the introduction of cheap online content (Stan over here is a mere $10 a month!) I guess family DVD players will become less and less so we have to think forward and be prepared when the time comes.

I guess it will soon be time to find some sort of sleeve insert that fits into all your spare DVD cases that has a cutout for a USB. At least that way you can still give schools a physical product for their money?
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Old January 10th, 2017, 07:53 AM   #69
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post

I guess it will soon be time to find some sort of sleeve insert that fits into all your spare DVD cases that has a cutout for a USB. At least that way you can still give schools a physical product for their money?
Hi Chris,

Funny you should say that, I've been looking for precisely that sort of thing, trouble is anything I find seems to be priced in pounds rather than pence!

Roger
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Old January 10th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #70
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
I don't agree that parents are content with poor quality video and audio because of the feed back we have always received. We always get good audio quality and with usually four cameras for different angles and closeups, the production values are pretty high for a school show.
Roger, in reading your comment I realized that I dashed off a remark likely without enough clarification. I judged interest in DVDs (and Blu-rays) by the crude metric of sales. I've worked with schools to heavily promote my videos, some samples of which are on YT (see my site) so parents can actually see exemplars of what they'd be purchasing. Hence, I don't think poor marketing is the culprit. Anecdotal feedback on quality is superb, so I don't think patrons fail to part with a couple of bucks for want of realization that they would receive professional quality. And optical disc players are as ubiquitous as toasters.

Then...what? [cynicism] I suspect that an objective viewer would appreciate a slick DVD of their kids, think "that's very nice but I'm not buying it," and then drop $4 for that latte at Starbucks on the way home. Link to streaming video pushed to a mobile device, free, and viewable right now whilst driving and enjoying that latte? You bet! [/cynicism]
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Old January 10th, 2017, 03:56 PM   #71
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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Hey Gerald

My mate used to work for a guy over East who did concerts and the like and they used to shoot the event and mix and record to a HDD. When the mum's and dad's came out they could buy an instant USB drive of the entire concert so they was no editing (I'm assuming they simply switched cameras live as the mixer we use for live broadcast also is able to record to an MP4 file) and no delivery hassles ...they simply copied the footage for each parent onto a USB and took their money! I know a USB drive costs more than a blank DVD but you do save on printing, making and printing sleeves and buying cases and I currently buy 8GB USB's for $2.50 each so I'm sure if you bought them in bulk they would be even cheaper, and of course they are getting an HD copy as opposed to a SD one.

It seemed quite an efficient way to distribute the event ?
Hi Chris,
That would be the dream, no work in post at all.
Logically I can't see it though. Even if what you laid down as a live cut track was the finished file, say a 720p MP4, with no menu, CC, audio corrections etc, how would you duplicate it enough times to have it available in the 3-5 min between curtain drop and the punters leaving the theatre?

I did see this done once successfully. Different situation though.
When our daughter graduated university there was a team there to capture the whole graduation, single cam, sdi out to a capture PC in the foyer. While everyone was milling around outside they had the DVDs ready to go.
The lines were big, I was in one lol. $30 a DVD and they must have sold a few hundred at least.
That is a very nice days work.
The difference is they had that extra time to run them off.
Prerequisites though, you have a professional mpg2 capable capture card and I think there were multiple towers of burners. Small investment though if you have the gig forever.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #72
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Gerald

Sadly I wasn't part of it so I'm not sure of how the operation worked ..maybe he had an operator who was just putting single performances of each dance number on USB's as they finished while the next performance was running so he had a stock of USB's ready for sale? I'll have to ask my mate how he did it.

Yeah, I love the idea of doing a live edit so there is no post work but you need to really be on the ball I guess? We are concentrating a lot on live broadcasting events so the post work is eliminated. The big studios have been doing it for years of course and nowdays people expect things to be available instantly. We are already doing weddings this way rather than brides waiting weeks, even months, before they get their video. It's a great feeling after a shoot to know that when you pack your gear into the car you are actually finished and can move to the next job straight away!!
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Old January 11th, 2017, 09:37 PM   #73
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

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"I currently buy 8GB USB's for $2.50 each"
Wow that is a good price on your USB drives Chris.
Just checked my emails and the last quote I got was $8.23 per 8gb thumb drive. This was printed with my branding on it. That was for 100.
The salesman did assure me if I bought 10,000 they would come down under $5 O_O

Can I get a link to your supplier?

When I do eisteddfods during the year Im still working on the instant delivery method.
Im close now, HDMI out of camera to Game Capture HD which is USB2 to Macbook, which writes those 720p files to an external HDD.
Its great if its not too busy, but when youre filming non stop its prob a two man operation to keep up.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 05:35 AM   #74
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Hi Gerald

I bought them form Office Works - Toshiba 8GB white but no branding.

Tell me how you are using the GameCapture box?? If you camera is say 10 metres from the computer you have already exceeded recommended cable length specs surely?? How do you use it if you want your cam and computer a decent distance apart??
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Old January 12th, 2017, 03:15 PM   #75
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Re: Selling Video Downloads

Thanks Chris,
Going to Office Works this morning for other things so will hit them up about it while im there.

I have a 10m HDMI cable that I use, never had an issue with the signal etc.
If you wanted a long run, I had a setup at my old house when our boys were on TV a lot to record all their stuff.
My office was about 35m away from our Foxtel box, so I found a solution from Jaycar electronics where you split the HDMI to the TV, go into a HDMI to CAT6 powered converter, run CAT6 (up to 100m from memory) to my office, into other converter, then HDMI into Blackmagic Intensity card.
Presto- 1080i Prores 422 from TV.
It would be even less trouble without the Foxtels HDCP to worry about.
This looks different to my one, updated maybe-
https://www.jaycar.com.au/hdmi-over-...ender/p/AC1732
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Last edited by Gerald Webb; January 12th, 2017 at 03:16 PM. Reason: spelling
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