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Old September 26th, 2018, 03:58 AM   #91
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Noa: Stop Press- Northrup does loads of extended training videos some 90 minutes and more and highly detailed. He could only report of the Panny fullframe details as they exist obviously but his channel is the go to place for first info as well as full-on.
He only made that video for the sake of attention and earning some extra cash and who can blame him for doing so because that is for a part how he makes a living :) I"m just stating a obvious fact that such early "previews" have no value whatsoever as he only repeats what has been officially announced and then shares some personal opinions like his "prediction" that Panasonic will leave the MFT system soon and that it would be ridiculous that Panasonic would develop 2 systems simultaniously. Is that a part of the odd bit of wrong info he trows out there? :)
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Old September 26th, 2018, 05:04 AM   #92
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Oh dear Steve you're coming across a bit bit shillish again :- ) Northrup isn't any old Youtuber, he has well over a million subscribers
Peter I have a personal dislike of vloggers and that includes the famous ones too. Its an annoying trend nowadays for any Tom, Dick or Harry to suddenly decide they can be a presenter and tell everyone things their viewers could quite easily figure out for themselves. The fact they are successful speaks more to their charisma than their knowledge. Its the same all the World over; is Arnold Schwarzenegger the greatest ever actor - no, but well paid and popular over many who can do better acting. I'm sorry but a million subscribers made up with people with too much time on their hands to give these kind of videos their attention is hardly a ringing endorsement.
Maybe he has done some excellent instruction videos. In which case, stick to them and leave trash opinion piece videos to the same place I'd stick most vloggers, Room 101. :)

Sorry, but I just don't get this modern thing of vlogging. I'd rather read a good book frankly - I'm old fashioned in that extent. :) Seriously I just don't see the point of videos like these and they seem merely there to justify the existence of these people who feel they'd be forgotten if they don't post videos regularly, regardless of content. It is basically a repeat of the press release that video you showed, so why do it. His opinions seem almost scaremongery and not even accurate to anyone who actually watched the Press release. I saw a bit of it and enough to know micro 4/3s is not dead or else why release such a wonderful new lens for it. Its not rocket science.

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But the main thing that jumped out at me was that to all intents and purposes many people looking at the Panny full-frame and lenses will look at it as a complete change of system. Why do that when Nikon, Canon, and latterly Sony have vast and proven kit. And by the time the Panny bodies arrive next year and the more varied Panny lenses in 2020 the competition will have moved ahead as well.
Because someone like me who has a liking for Panasonic and who hasn't invested in Sony cos their colours are crap, or Canon because they fail to innovate on their smaller bodies for video or Nikon because they are still new to video, would gladly invest in said system. Before this announcement I was considering getting a fullframe camera anyway, which would require news lenses as all my lenses are 4/3s. So there's no great cost beyond what I would incur if I did go down say the Sony route as Noa has done. I'd prefer to stick to Panasonic if I can. It's easier matching colours and I'm use to how they do things.

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All the stuff about 4k and 10 bit and 4:2:2 etc sorry but you could not be more wrong. Kit for the masses is already close to mature.
Not sure what that means or how I could be more wrong. A better codec is a better codec if you wish to colour grade. And if that isn't important, I take it your Photographs are all shot on Jpegs rather than RAW. If you do shoot RAW, why do you feel Photography needs a better codec and Videography does not. Probably because you are a Photographer first and a Videographer 2nd. I'm the other way round, though really have little interest in Photography. So we are approaching our work from two different and opposing perspectives. So I appreciate you feel 4K, 10 bit and 4:2:2 is meaningless. However not to me, and as my demands and needs for my work are my own, my opinion on the subject is not wrong, being as it is applicable to my work, and clearly just different to your own perspective. Nothing wrong with that.

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My daughter can shoot 4k on her iphone. I can shoot 4k on my Galaxy S9. 4k is about as interesting as 3D and curved TVs :- )
And yet no one has asked me to shoot 3D or to make my videos suitable for curved TV's. ;) My Parents own a 4K TV though not 3D or a curved TV. I have had many clients ask me if I shoot 4K. 4K also gives me better stills than HD which some of my clients pay for. 4K makes for better HD, something you wouldn't know using Canon. :) 4K has allowed me to crop for some videos where clients have asked me to. So 4K may not be interesting to you, but then you're not my client. I'm not that interested in 3D, but I am in 4K and ultimately in HDR one day. Is it essential to my work, no, but then as it's my own work, surely I'm allowed to invest as much time and resources and technology as I feel like.
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Old September 26th, 2018, 05:12 AM   #93
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post

I instead will be waiting for Steve to tell us how bad the camera is once he receives his pre-order. :)
Perhaps Panasonic should put that quote on their marketing for the camera. :)

Besides I haven't pre-ordered it yet. I'll wait for final specs; I'm just sold so far on the concept. Fullframe, IBIS, 4K 50p, weather sealing, 2 card slots, adjustable screen for low and high angle shooting unlike the Pocket 4K. Good starter lenses for me too with more eventually for me to buy into once released, plus this collaboration with Leica and Sigma should extend the lens line up too. All sounds good so far and Panasonic don't have a history of crippling their products. However we know little beyond those facts - it's just a pre-announcement saying they plan to release this camera. So if it turns out 4K is indeed cropped, then forget it. Deal breaker for me. But I doubt it.

Now I should stop talking about this camera or I am as guilty as that vlogger spending 17 mins waffling and speculating over a camera we know very little about. :)
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Old September 26th, 2018, 05:45 AM   #94
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Oh dear Steve you're coming across a bit bit shillish again :- )
BTW, I was intrigued in how you were insulting me Peter. So I googled the word. I got the results 'Red Cherry'. Now either you're calling me cherry, which almost sounds like a term of endearment or you meant something else. :)

Closest I could find was shill, which is an assistant to a confidence trickster, who poses as an ordinary customer. Hmmm, doesn't quite fit either.

Seriously I am the sort of person whom many a good and commonly used insult can be properly thrown against me, and in fact have already been used against me :); so you hardly need invent something new.
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Old September 26th, 2018, 07:21 AM   #95
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

The Northrups do some good stuff and are also invested in GH5's but I do not really agree with him. We will have to wait for more information because all of us only have the smallest info that has been released so far. I see not reason for Panasonic not to have both MFT and full frame products.
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Old September 26th, 2018, 08:20 AM   #96
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

Perhaps Panasonic could provided a M43 adaptor for their new FF camera to encourage their high end MFT customers (GH5, G9) to purchase the new camera? MFT could be their equivalent of Nikon DX lenses which are designed for APS-C but can be used on Nikon FF in APS-C mode.
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Old September 26th, 2018, 09:14 AM   #97
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
Perhaps Panasonic could provided a M43 adaptor for their new FF camera to encourage their high end MFT customers (GH5, G9) to purchase the new camera? MFT could be their equivalent of Nikon DX lenses which are designed for APS-C but can be used on Nikon FF in APS-C mode.
The early rumours about this camera did mention such an adaptor, but it wasn't part of the announcement. Whether the new L mount allows for such an adaptor is the question here. If it does, I can't see Panasonic not providing one given their investment in 4/3 lenses. If not someone else will make one. However it is a new lens mount so what is and isn't possible with it hasn't been revealed yet.
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Old September 26th, 2018, 10:09 AM   #98
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
The Northrups do some good stuff
Ofcourse he does, I have seen good reviews from him or other usefull tutorials but the Panasonic fullframe video is just clickbait with no substance and ridiculous claims.
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Old September 27th, 2018, 06:40 AM   #99
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

Well the launch of this camera is getting itself covered on BBC News. Did Nikon or Canon mirrorless announcement warrant a BBC news article? :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45627055

Side note, still not sold on the screen. Looks a bit dodgy to me.

Back to the Pocket, apparently they're shipping now to stores but there's tonnes of pre-orders to get through. I ordered early but likely I am 1 in a very long list for this popular camera, so will probably have to be patient. :(
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Old January 3rd, 2019, 02:34 PM   #100
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

Well Santa finally delivered me the Blackmagic Pocket 4K before Christmas and I've spent the last 2 week's getting to know this camera. All I can say, there's a lot I really love and a few things I don't. If only it had IBIS, swivel screen and better battery, it'll be my top camera. Dodgy Focus I've learnt to deal without from Panasonic.

With a Wedding last Friday, I even got to use it as a Wedding and shot quite a bit of it on it. Bridal Preps, 90%, none of the Ceremony, 60% of the Reception and Photo shoot, none for the Speeches or 1st Dance and about 50% of the evening footage.

I have another Wedding tomorrow, and I'll be using in there too.

Frankly the things I love about it, the colours, the menu, the large screen, the ergonomics and codec.... Oh to see footage load on photoshop and watch those thumbnails spring to life rather than chug slowly away, I am already looking forward to editing the material. It's a lovely camera to use and I'm coping with its drawbacks; no swivel screen, no IBIS, poor battery life and some limitations in software.

I've got a lovely cage for it, not something I got for the Panasonic cameras, plus a battery unit that can power the camera for longer periods. Plus a few other accessories. I see this as a good production camera and look forward to tackling a few Promos, 1 of which I shoot in January, where this camera really comes into its own.

So far, the issues of batteries being stuck, battery door being loose and a few other issues have skipped over my one. I had 1 case where the unit locked up, but t was not recording anything, so I just removed the battery. But I've shot loads on it over the last 2 week's. I've yet to edit the material, but what I've seen looks great. :)
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Old January 4th, 2019, 02:18 PM   #101
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
It's a lovely camera to use and I'm coping with its drawbacks; no swivel screen, no IBIS, poor battery life and some limitations in software.

I've got a lovely cage for it, not something I got for the Panasonic cameras...
Does the cage adequately compensate for the lack of IBIS for hand-held work though, especially with it not having a swivel screen ?
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Old January 6th, 2019, 08:18 AM   #102
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Bryan Worsley View Post
Does the cage adequately compensate for the lack of IBIS for hand-held work though, especially with it not having a swivel screen ?
I use the camera without a cage for handheld filming. Paired with the 12-35 Panasonic lens, I find I can get reasonably stable footage. I also the cage on for Weddings, where I use it on a Monopod so far, but I feel I shall also be using it on a tripod in Weddings to come. I just need the accessories for the cage, so I can attach an SSD to the cage, then I shall be properly in business.

I'm also coping well with the fixed screen. It's an issue, but not as much as I thought it would be. Helps that it's a marvellous screen as long as you don't have a lot of sun.
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Old January 7th, 2019, 01:04 PM   #103
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
I use the camera without a cage for handheld filming. Paired with the 12-35 Panasonic lens, I find I can get reasonably stable footage.
Would be nice to see some sample (unedited) hand-held footage.

Personally, I find the camera shake in the hand-held shots in this video very distracting:

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Old January 8th, 2019, 12:52 AM   #104
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

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Originally Posted by Bryan Worsley View Post
Would be nice to see some sample (unedited) hand-held footage.

Personally, I find the camera shake in the hand-held shots in this video very distracting:
We must have widely different views of very distracting. I played the video expecting some serious shake, but given all the footage shot on the Blackmagic was handheld, I'd say there were quite a few shots there with minimum shake movement. Given he was shooting on the tube and in busy markets, where time to compose shots were limited, I think the camera coped well. Even with IBIS, I've had some shake to camera footage, or at least a wobble in the corners like a warp effect on some wide angles.

The camera shooting the behind the scenes and interview part I'm sure wasn't the Blackmagic and was a tad shakey in places. Not sure what camera was used there.

Still given on the Blackmagic he was using a wide angles lens without IS plus a 35 to 100 lens with IS, though longer focal length, the footage was more stable than some I've seen, even with IBIS. Colours looked great. No way is handheld on those lenses going to be as good as tripod or even a good IBIS, but as a compromise, it works for me in my shots and for many of the shots I saw in the video.
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Old January 8th, 2019, 04:35 AM   #105
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Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

The camera and lens used in the ProAV review is listed in the comments on the Youtube video.
I have enjoyed this thread and hope to see some real world wedding sample footage from those with the camera when you can do it. cheers.
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