Large images crashes Vegas totally at DVinfo.net

Kim Olsson · June 1st, 2008, 04:18 PM

Hoho, Today I created a 8000x5000 pixlar large image (png) in the application Comic Life... Vegas went crazy, the workflow got interrupted, and frooze Vegas time to time (had to restart Vegas). And when rendering, the countdown frooze and couldnt render finished (had to restart Vegas).

Why couldnt Sony fix this issue with large images in Vegas. The problem, like I would call it, have been in Vegas like forever...

Have all NLE this issue, or is it just Vegas?

James Harring · June 1st, 2008, 06:54 PM

yeah, got burned by this too, but I use smaller ones (HDV workflow) and don't really notice any significant quality issues. I think you are supposed to use PNG's but I am still using JPGs'.

Jeff Harper · June 1st, 2008, 08:25 PM

I wouldn't be be upset if Vegas couldn't render a 8k x5k image. I do quite a few photo montages with it and it seems to struggle with large quantities of very high rez images, the performance just degrades when the images are "too large". While if I had a large image like yours and might try it, I certainly wouldn't surprised if it didn't go.

What processor are you using anyway, Kim?

Edward Troxel · June 2nd, 2008, 06:56 AM

When using lots of photos, it might also help to lower the ram preview to a very small number. It's worth a shot to try.

Kim Olsson · June 2nd, 2008, 08:57 AM

Well I notice the different much, the large image is suposed to be able to pan over the whole image with a 720p (1280x720) output. On the image, is a comic lookalike look with several frames.

I know its a high resolution image (300dpi), But hell, what am I doing, rocket sience on Vegas??

I just though this kind of stuff was to the ordinary...

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz (an clocked E6700 2.67GHz), 4GB RAM 667MHz...

...Ok Edward, I will try that...

Michael Tobias · June 2nd, 2008, 10:29 AM

Here's a little tidbit that I picked up at NAB that I didn't know either. Video has a max pixel resolution of 4096x4096 so I asked what does that do to high rez stills. The guy running the class said that if you go over that pixel size that most NLE's will have a problem with it and you should just try to do no more than 3 times your output resolution (meaning if you're working in 720x480 don't have a still larger than 2160x1440 or in 1080 not more than 3240)

Anyhow I was skeptical so when I got back I tried a still that was 6000x5100 and sure enough Vegas crashed every time I tired to render that puppy. Then I resized the still down to 2160 x whatever it was PNG and sure enough it worked fab.

So it seems there may be something to this 4096 rez issue. Hope that helps.

Jeff Harper · June 2nd, 2008, 11:00 AM

Vegas has been getting banged around a bit lately, so I would like to state for the benefit of anyone new to Vegas that many (including myself) feel that Vegas is among the best, if not the best NLE for creating still image projects. While there are specialty programs such as SlideShow Pro that do amazing things with photos, for an all-around video editing application Vegas is an excellent choice for turning photos into slideshows, etc. especially using the plug-ins such as Excalibur and Ultimate S.

Speaking of SlideshowPro, Kim, I wonder if there low-end version would be better suited for your large image. Probably not, but who knows?

Kim Olsson · June 2nd, 2008, 12:30 PM

Thnx Michael Tobias, I love being enlighten... And I love being smarter...

Kim Olsson · June 2nd, 2008, 12:33 PM

I checked the site for SlideshowPro Jeff Harper, But Im doing a photomontage based on 3d track motion, and SlideshowPro does not do that, thnx anyway.

Anyway, you sounds like you have operated several NLE's over the time?

Which other NLE's gives you the 3d track motion abbility?

Jeff Harper · June 2nd, 2008, 01:05 PM

Actually, Kim, the best choices I know of are Final Cut Studio using Motion, Avid with Boris, or you can buy Boris or After Effects as a standalone product. Boris has a plug-in version for Vegas, but from what I hear it is is not a true plug-in.

From my understanding though, the seasoned Avid editors tend to use After Effects.

If you are serious about 3d, I think AE is the best option. I have that at the top of my list in priorities to learn. Very complicated, to me.

go here: http://www.videocopilot.net/products.html for cool AE stuff, or here for cool 3d photomontage templates done in AE: http://www.aeprojects.com/after-effe...e/prod_19.html.

I don't know squat about 3d Kim, but those places above are the kind of places you end up when you want to do great 3d and track motion like the pros. Vegas' 3d track motion is supposed to be excellent for what you are paying for. There are no cheap or easy answers, I've looked for them, still can't find them!

Kim Olsson · June 2nd, 2008, 01:48 PM

Yeah, I really always wanted to play with Final Cut Studio Pro. Unfortunly its a mac software, and when it comes to Mac's, I know nothing. For me I have to relearn everything from the scratch. Im a PC user, and have never learned how Mac's working...

After Effects have been in my mind for a long time too. But It seems like a very big challange to learn the application. It's look like it will take about 300 hours to teach it. And its hard to find the right time...

Their is so many cool applications to consider, but the one I have picked/choosen to learn/master is Sony Vegas (from v6), Photoshop CS2/CS3, Particle Illusion, Crazy Talk =), Comic Life, Poser 7, and the major softwares have alot of plug-in's to research about too...

I only have had the digital video/photo/animation as a hobby for about 2-3 years...

I also looked at Avid, but it seems very advanced and not so friendly looking. And for my knowledge, Avid and Vegas is a video editing software with equal ability's/capacity, not much different, both of them is just a editing software with different looks...

The only reason why I doubt, is that Avid which is a more "professional" well-known editing software which you can count that the major plug-in's works with...

Ive done amazing work with 3d motion tracking with Vegas, I think. It just that I have had alot of unstability with Vegas. Not with regular "video editing", just when it comes to High Defenition, large images and 3d track motion. And that in a way of, computer restarts while rendering, rendering freeze's, workflow stucks, Vegas crashes, and so on...

That was also a reason to test another NLE....

Thnx for the response.

Edward Troxel · June 2nd, 2008, 02:53 PM

Remember that Red also works as a plugin for Vegas.

Jeff Harper · June 2nd, 2008, 03:01 PM

Edward, does it work as a real plug in? I tried a trial version over a year ago, and while it was a plug-in, in launched in it's own interface and seemed no different than a standalone version....has that changed?

Edward Troxel · June 2nd, 2008, 03:05 PM

It's a plugin in the fact that it can be placed on the timeline. While editing the effect, it does open it's own interface and there are some restrictions such as if you're working with video, only the first frame is passed to the interface. In some cases it's still easier just using it as a standalone.

Jeff Harper · June 2nd, 2008, 03:10 PM

Do you use it? Is it worth the price in your opinion? Wouldn't one be better off with AE? I'll check back, gotta go...

June 1st, 2008, 04:18 PM	#1
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Large images crashes Vegas totally Hoho, Today I created a 8000x5000 pixlar large image (png) in the application Comic Life... Vegas went crazy, the workflow got interrupted, and frooze Vegas time to time (had to restart Vegas). And when rendering, the countdown frooze and couldnt render finished (had to restart Vegas). Why couldnt Sony fix this issue with large images in Vegas. The problem, like I would call it, have been in Vegas like forever... Have all NLE this issue, or is it just Vegas?

June 1st, 2008, 06:54 PM	#2
James Harring Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 210	large stills yeah, got burned by this too, but I use smaller ones (HDV workflow) and don't really notice any significant quality issues. I think you are supposed to use PNG's but I am still using JPGs'.

June 1st, 2008, 08:25 PM	#3
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I wouldn't be be upset if Vegas couldn't render a 8k x5k image. I do quite a few photo montages with it and it seems to struggle with large quantities of very high rez images, the performance just degrades when the images are "too large". While if I had a large image like yours and might try it, I certainly wouldn't surprised if it didn't go. What processor are you using anyway, Kim? Last edited by Jeff Harper; June 2nd, 2008 at 08:31 AM.

June 2nd, 2008, 06:56 AM	#4
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	When using lots of photos, it might also help to lower the ram preview to a very small number. It's worth a shot to try. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 2nd, 2008, 02:53 PM	#12
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Remember that Red also works as a plugin for Vegas. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 2nd, 2008, 08:57 AM	#5
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Well I notice the different much, the large image is suposed to be able to pan over the whole image with a 720p (1280x720) output. On the image, is a comic lookalike look with several frames. I know its a high resolution image (300dpi), But hell, what am I doing, rocket sience on Vegas?? I just though this kind of stuff was to the ordinary... I have an Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz (an clocked E6700 2.67GHz), 4GB RAM 667MHz... ...Ok Edward, I will try that...

June 2nd, 2008, 10:29 AM	#6
Michael Tobias Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 45	Here's a little tidbit that I picked up at NAB that I didn't know either. Video has a max pixel resolution of 4096x4096 so I asked what does that do to high rez stills. The guy running the class said that if you go over that pixel size that most NLE's will have a problem with it and you should just try to do no more than 3 times your output resolution (meaning if you're working in 720x480 don't have a still larger than 2160x1440 or in 1080 not more than 3240) Anyhow I was skeptical so when I got back I tried a still that was 6000x5100 and sure enough Vegas crashed every time I tired to render that puppy. Then I resized the still down to 2160 x whatever it was PNG and sure enough it worked fab. So it seems there may be something to this 4096 rez issue. Hope that helps.

June 2nd, 2008, 11:00 AM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Vegas has been getting banged around a bit lately, so I would like to state for the benefit of anyone new to Vegas that many (including myself) feel that Vegas is among the best, if not the best NLE for creating still image projects. While there are specialty programs such as SlideShow Pro that do amazing things with photos, for an all-around video editing application Vegas is an excellent choice for turning photos into slideshows, etc. especially using the plug-ins such as Excalibur and Ultimate S. Speaking of SlideshowPro, Kim, I wonder if there low-end version would be better suited for your large image. Probably not, but who knows?

June 2nd, 2008, 12:30 PM	#8
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Thnx Michael Tobias, I love being enlighten... And I love being smarter...

June 2nd, 2008, 12:33 PM	#9
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	I checked the site for SlideshowPro Jeff Harper, But Im doing a photomontage based on 3d track motion, and SlideshowPro does not do that, thnx anyway. Anyway, you sounds like you have operated several NLE's over the time? Which other NLE's gives you the 3d track motion abbility?

June 2nd, 2008, 01:05 PM	#10
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Actually, Kim, the best choices I know of are Final Cut Studio using Motion, Avid with Boris, or you can buy Boris or After Effects as a standalone product. Boris has a plug-in version for Vegas, but from what I hear it is is not a true plug-in. From my understanding though, the seasoned Avid editors tend to use After Effects. If you are serious about 3d, I think AE is the best option. I have that at the top of my list in priorities to learn. Very complicated, to me. go here: http://www.videocopilot.net/products.html for cool AE stuff, or here for cool 3d photomontage templates done in AE: http://www.aeprojects.com/after-effe...e/prod_19.html. I don't know squat about 3d Kim, but those places above are the kind of places you end up when you want to do great 3d and track motion like the pros. Vegas' 3d track motion is supposed to be excellent for what you are paying for. There are no cheap or easy answers, I've looked for them, still can't find them!

June 2nd, 2008, 01:48 PM	#11
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Yeah, I really always wanted to play with Final Cut Studio Pro. Unfortunly its a mac software, and when it comes to Mac's, I know nothing. For me I have to relearn everything from the scratch. Im a PC user, and have never learned how Mac's working... After Effects have been in my mind for a long time too. But It seems like a very big challange to learn the application. It's look like it will take about 300 hours to teach it. And its hard to find the right time... Their is so many cool applications to consider, but the one I have picked/choosen to learn/master is Sony Vegas (from v6), Photoshop CS2/CS3, Particle Illusion, Crazy Talk =), Comic Life, Poser 7, and the major softwares have alot of plug-in's to research about too... I only have had the digital video/photo/animation as a hobby for about 2-3 years... I also looked at Avid, but it seems very advanced and not so friendly looking. And for my knowledge, Avid and Vegas is a video editing software with equal ability's/capacity, not much different, both of them is just a editing software with different looks... The only reason why I doubt, is that Avid which is a more "professional" well-known editing software which you can count that the major plug-in's works with... Ive done amazing work with 3d motion tracking with Vegas, I think. It just that I have had alot of unstability with Vegas. Not with regular "video editing", just when it comes to High Defenition, large images and 3d track motion. And that in a way of, computer restarts while rendering, rendering freeze's, workflow stucks, Vegas crashes, and so on... That was also a reason to test another NLE.... Thnx for the response.

June 2nd, 2008, 03:01 PM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Edward, does it work as a real plug in? I tried a trial version over a year ago, and while it was a plug-in, in launched in it's own interface and seemed no different than a standalone version....has that changed?

June 2nd, 2008, 03:05 PM	#14
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	It's a plugin in the fact that it can be placed on the timeline. While editing the effect, it does open it's own interface and there are some restrictions such as if you're working with video, only the first frame is passed to the interface. In some cases it's still easier just using it as a standalone. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 2nd, 2008, 03:10 PM	#15
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Do you use it? Is it worth the price in your opinion? Wouldn't one be better off with AE? I'll check back, gotta go...