Vegas Video discussions from 2003

Glen Elliott · September 10th, 2003, 07:01 PM

I'm neck deep into my first big project with Vegas, a wedding. I'm totally enjoying the experience- so much more intuitive than Premiere. Though I'm a bit slower, still, beings I haven't perfected my workflow. I do, however, love the fact that I can work flexibly with lots of visual effects....ones that might not always be so usefull but beings it's wedding videography they fit well.
I also recently noticed that my raw footage looks nothing like the LCD on my camera and on my computer monitor. What a rude awakening when I used the "preview to external monitor" option! Needless to say I've been aclimating myself with the various color correction tools on at least 80% of my footage.

Here are a few un-retouched still captures from montage footage of the current wedding in Vegas. *note untouched means untouched after capture (I used many many filters from within Vegas on some of this footage). I dunno I was pretty happy with the results!
Note the tell-tale vertical black bar on the right overscan zone from my DVX

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image3.jpg

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image4.jpg

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image5.jpg

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image6.jpg

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image9.jpg

Rob Lohman · September 11th, 2003, 04:39 AM

There is no menu... Right-clicking looses the selection I think.
Not sure. Try it out!

Peter Jefferson · September 11th, 2003, 04:45 AM

one thing to note is that if your using a crt monitor, the footage will be MUCH darker.

those images look very nice, however that glow effect may be a little bright and cause audio distortions on a standard tv (unless running broadcast filters)
Another thing to look out for with the glow, is that if its too slow, it may flicker when using a non interlaced rendering routine

I really like the colour of your images, were u using progressive mode or standard interlaced on the camera?

Rob Lohman · September 11th, 2003, 04:46 AM

Do you still get the popup what you want to do or not?

Rob Lohman · September 11th, 2003, 04:51 AM

I don't do de-interlacing myself because I shoot progressive,
but I would de-interlace each clip as I put it on the timeline.

Your question #1 is easy for you try out for yourself. See what
you like or don't. Question #2 as well. Testing and seeing for
yourself usually works best. If someone tells you that you should
do it in VirtualDub then you'll probably gonna do that. But what
if the results from Vegas look fine to you? You've just added
extra to your work.

Ofcourse it is interesting to hear where other people stand
on this and it might even tell you which is supposed to have
a better quality.

What I do know is that you can plugin some filters in VirtualDub
to get even more de-interlacing options. Surely there will be
a very good one out there.

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 05:59 AM

I shot it with standard 60i beings I'm editing it along with XL1s coverage.

When you say the footage will be darker- do you mean on a Television. Because it seems when viewing it on a TV the image becomes much richer, darker. That's why I make all my color corrrections by the TV image not the computer monitor.

As far as the glow creating audio distortion- never heard of that, but I'll take your word for it. *crossing fingers*

Dave Largent · September 11th, 2003, 06:15 AM

Hi,
I used Vegas to convert some 60i to 24p using blend and also
interpolate. I then converted back to 60i to watch it on a TV.
Both deinterlace methods did look a lot less like video ... but they
were both also equally very noticably jerky/stuttery. I didn't
compare real closely; they both looked about the same so far as the end result. Neither method yielded anything that would be usable except maybe if the camera weren't panning.
Dave

Dave Largent · September 11th, 2003, 06:23 AM

Hi,
Does anyone know of a way to get smoother slow-mo out of
Vegas than the methods mentioned above? I do.

Dave Largent · September 11th, 2003, 06:30 AM

Glen,
It's normally much brighter on a TV than a computer monitor.

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 06:35 AM

Doesn't that depend on both your color calibration and video overlay settings. Most people don't have their computer monitor calibrated beings they don't do graphic work- usually they think it is too "dark" when calibrated correctly (the computer monitor that is) hence *maybe* why it's the opposite in my case- having the TV look a bit darker than the computer monitor.

Rob Lohman · September 11th, 2003, 06:43 AM

Well, tell us then

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 07:01 AM

Why is it every time I use the sync tool the audio from the top clip stays put when it slides to sync up with the footage below it. The footage on the lower track keep the audio in sync but the top track leaves it behind where ever it was prior to running the script. *PS. And the ignore event grouping ISN'T checked*

Secondly when using the Multi Cam tool I can't seem to get the first section of footage to go to the master track. In other words say I have two clips one named "A" and the other "B". Well if I place all my makers across the clips to denote which camera to change to whenevever I run the script it only moves the footage from the first marker up...even though I chose "start processing at cursor location". I also tried adding a maker right at the beginning of the first clip and that footage didn't make it to the master track either. It's an easy fix as all I have to do is manually move it to the top master track after the script- I was just wondering what I was missing. If my text description of this odditie doesn't make any sense I can post pictures to describe what is happening.

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 07:07 AM

Peter got me thinking from a message in another post. He noted to beware of bright glows, as they might cause audio distortion on Television monitors. At first it sounded bizzare but now I DO distinctly remember years ago playing Nintendo 64 on a cheap TV and hearing a buzzing noise anytime bright yellows or reds were on the screen. I don't know if this is linked to the same phenomenon of broadcast colors and audio distortion but it goes to show how video can effect audio.

Anyway that brings me to my question. After this wedding I'm editing a commercial I shot a few months earlier. Beings this is going to broadcast what sort of steps should I take to optimize my results. I know Vegas has vectorscopes and all but does anyone know HOW to use them? Lastly, say...for the sake of argument, I make the commercial with super saturated colors- what will happen when it's broadcasted? Will the color not be supported and shift to the next closest broadcast-safe color? Is the audio distortion from bright colors a factor as well?

Edward Troxel · September 11th, 2003, 07:38 AM

First, which version are you running?

For sync wizard, make sure ALL clips to be synced are selected BEFORE running Excalibur.

Excalibur and only move clips to the master track when there is a marker. So, you DO need a marker at the beginning of the track. I'm suspecting you are not running version 1.5 as moving this first clip was one of the "fixes" in the latest versions (and is also how I do it).

Edward Troxel · September 11th, 2003, 07:42 AM

There are several options in Vegas that have not been mentioned that can help smooth out slow motion. First, verify that resample is turned on. Second, try turning on "reduce interlace flicker". If all of the above doesn't work to your satisfaction, try turning on "Super Sampling" but be aware that the rendering time will increase dramatically.

September 10th, 2003, 07:01 PM	#1021
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Still from my most recent project edited in Vegas! I'm neck deep into my first big project with Vegas, a wedding. I'm totally enjoying the experience- so much more intuitive than Premiere. Though I'm a bit slower, still, beings I haven't perfected my workflow. I do, however, love the fact that I can work flexibly with lots of visual effects....ones that might not always be so usefull but beings it's wedding videography they fit well. I also recently noticed that my raw footage looks nothing like the LCD on my camera and on my computer monitor. What a rude awakening when I used the "preview to external monitor" option! Needless to say I've been aclimating myself with the various color correction tools on at least 80% of my footage. Here are a few un-retouched still captures from montage footage of the current wedding in Vegas. note untouched means untouched after capture (I used many many filters from within Vegas on some of this footage). I dunno I was pretty happy with the results! Note the tell-tale vertical black bar on the right overscan zone from my DVX* http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image3.jpg http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image4.jpg http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image5.jpg http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image6.jpg http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...eP5/image9.jpg

September 11th, 2003, 04:39 AM	#1022
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	There is no menu... Right-clicking looses the selection I think. Not sure. Try it out! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 11th, 2003, 04:46 AM	#1024
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Do you still get the popup what you want to do or not? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 11th, 2003, 04:51 AM	#1025
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I don't do de-interlacing myself because I shoot progressive, but I would de-interlace each clip as I put it on the timeline. Your question #1 is easy for you try out for yourself. See what you like or don't. Question #2 as well. Testing and seeing for yourself usually works best. If someone tells you that you should do it in VirtualDub then you'll probably gonna do that. But what if the results from Vegas look fine to you? You've just added extra to your work. Ofcourse it is interesting to hear where other people stand on this and it might even tell you which is supposed to have a better quality. What I do know is that you can plugin some filters in VirtualDub to get even more de-interlacing options. Surely there will be a very good one out there. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 11th, 2003, 06:43 AM	#1031
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well, tell us then __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 11th, 2003, 04:45 AM	#1023
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	one thing to note is that if your using a crt monitor, the footage will be MUCH darker. those images look very nice, however that glow effect may be a little bright and cause audio distortions on a standard tv (unless running broadcast filters) Another thing to look out for with the glow, is that if its too slow, it may flicker when using a non interlaced rendering routine I really like the colour of your images, were u using progressive mode or standard interlaced on the camera?

September 11th, 2003, 05:59 AM	#1026
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I shot it with standard 60i beings I'm editing it along with XL1s coverage. When you say the footage will be darker- do you mean on a Television. Because it seems when viewing it on a TV the image becomes much richer, darker. That's why I make all my color corrrections by the TV image not the computer monitor. As far as the glow creating audio distortion- never heard of that, but I'll take your word for it. crossing fingers

September 11th, 2003, 06:15 AM	#1027
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Hi, I used Vegas to convert some 60i to 24p using blend and also interpolate. I then converted back to 60i to watch it on a TV. Both deinterlace methods did look a lot less like video ... but they were both also equally very noticably jerky/stuttery. I didn't compare real closely; they both looked about the same so far as the end result. Neither method yielded anything that would be usable except maybe if the camera weren't panning. Dave

September 11th, 2003, 06:23 AM	#1028
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Hi, Does anyone know of a way to get smoother slow-mo out of Vegas than the methods mentioned above? I do.

September 11th, 2003, 06:30 AM	#1029
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Glen, It's normally much brighter on a TV than a computer monitor.

September 11th, 2003, 06:35 AM	#1030
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Doesn't that depend on both your color calibration and video overlay settings. Most people don't have their computer monitor calibrated beings they don't do graphic work- usually they think it is too "dark" when calibrated correctly (the computer monitor that is) hence maybe why it's the opposite in my case- having the TV look a bit darker than the computer monitor.

September 11th, 2003, 07:01 AM	#1032
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Question about Sync and Multi Cam tools in Excalibur Why is it every time I use the sync tool the audio from the top clip stays put when it slides to sync up with the footage below it. The footage on the lower track keep the audio in sync but the top track leaves it behind where ever it was prior to running the script. PS. And the ignore event grouping ISN'T checked Secondly when using the Multi Cam tool I can't seem to get the first section of footage to go to the master track. In other words say I have two clips one named "A" and the other "B". Well if I place all my makers across the clips to denote which camera to change to whenevever I run the script it only moves the footage from the first marker up...even though I chose "start processing at cursor location". I also tried adding a maker right at the beginning of the first clip and that footage didn't make it to the master track either. It's an easy fix as all I have to do is manually move it to the top master track after the script- I was just wondering what I was missing. If my text description of this odditie doesn't make any sense I can post pictures to describe what is happening.

September 11th, 2003, 07:07 AM	#1033
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Broadcast Safe? Peter got me thinking from a message in another post. He noted to beware of bright glows, as they might cause audio distortion on Television monitors. At first it sounded bizzare but now I DO distinctly remember years ago playing Nintendo 64 on a cheap TV and hearing a buzzing noise anytime bright yellows or reds were on the screen. I don't know if this is linked to the same phenomenon of broadcast colors and audio distortion but it goes to show how video can effect audio. Anyway that brings me to my question. After this wedding I'm editing a commercial I shot a few months earlier. Beings this is going to broadcast what sort of steps should I take to optimize my results. I know Vegas has vectorscopes and all but does anyone know HOW to use them? Lastly, say...for the sake of argument, I make the commercial with super saturated colors- what will happen when it's broadcasted? Will the color not be supported and shift to the next closest broadcast-safe color? Is the audio distortion from bright colors a factor as well?

September 11th, 2003, 07:38 AM	#1034
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	First, which version are you running? For sync wizard, make sure ALL clips to be synced are selected BEFORE running Excalibur. Excalibur and only move clips to the master track when there is a marker. So, you DO need a marker at the beginning of the track. I'm suspecting you are not running version 1.5 as moving this first clip was one of the "fixes" in the latest versions (and is also how I do it).

September 11th, 2003, 07:42 AM	#1035
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	There are several options in Vegas that have not been mentioned that can help smooth out slow motion. First, verify that resample is turned on. Second, try turning on "reduce interlace flicker". If all of the above doesn't work to your satisfaction, try turning on "Super Sampling" but be aware that the rendering time will increase dramatically.