Money is no object editing PC

John Hewat · December 19th, 2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Smith

According to the motherboard manual located here
http://www.supermicro.com/manuals/mo...0/MNL-0945.pdf
on page 2-6 you can install as few as 2 dimms. But, they have to be in different banks.

Could you explain to me what this means? About the different banks?

Phillip Smith · December 20th, 2007, 08:02 AM

This is a pretty good explaination of interleaved memory I found on the net. Just replace block with bank.

Interleaving

Interleaving is an advanced technique used by high-end motherboards/chipsets to improve memory performance. Memory interleaving increases bandwidth by allowing simultaneous access to more than one chunk of memory. This improves performance because the processor can transfer more information to/from memory in the same amount of time, and helps alleviate the processor-memory bottleneck that is a major limiting factor in overall performance.

Interleaving works by dividing the system memory into multiple blocks. The most common numbers are two or four, called two-way or four-way interleaving, respectively. Each block of memory is accessed using different sets of control lines, which are merged together on the memory bus. When a read or write is begun to one block, a read or write to other blocks can be overlapped with the first one. The more blocks, the more that overlapping can be done. As an analogy, consider eating a plate of food with a fork. Two-way interleaving would mean dividing the food onto two plates and eating with both hands, using two forks. (Four-way interleaving would require two more hands. :^) ) Remember that here the processor is doing the "eating" and it is much faster than the forks (memory) "feeding" it (unlike a person, whose hands are generally faster.)

In order to get the best performance from this type of memory system, consecutive memory addresses are spread over the different blocks of memory. In other words, if you have 4 blocks of interleaved memory, the system doesn't fill the first block, and then the second and so on. It uses all 4 blocks, spreading the memory around so that the interleaving can be exploited.

Interleaving is an advanced technique that is not generally supported by most PC motherboards, most likely due to cost. It is most helpful on high-end systems, especially servers, that have to process a great deal of information quickly.

Phillip Smith · December 26th, 2007, 07:45 AM

X5460's in stock at NewEgg!!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...7137&Tpk=x5460

Mike McCarthy · December 26th, 2007, 01:27 PM

The X5450 is also in stock. In is about 30% cheaper, doesn't use half step multipliers, and should have better sync with the DDR2 667 Ram (9:2 instead of 19:4 clock ratio)

Adam Gold · January 11th, 2008, 06:43 PM

Interestingly, the one reviewer who posted about this CPU at NewEgg said the following:

"Pros: Works well except with Adobe After Affects and Premiere Pro
"Cons: Does not work with Adobe AF and PPRO, Do not buy this processor until Adobe has fixed their software"

Is this guy all wet or is there a possibility this is true?

John Hewat · January 12th, 2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Interestingly, the one reviewer who posted about this CPU at NewEgg said the following:

"Pros: Works well except with Adobe After Affects and Premiere Pro
"Cons: Does not work with Adobe AF and PPRO, Do not buy this processor until Adobe has fixed their software"

Is this guy all wet or is there a possibility this is true?

If that's true I will find the world's tallest building to leap from.

I'm still waiting on the motherboard to become available in this country so the system isn't built yet. If I have any stupid problems like that I will want to jump off a bridge!

Adam Gold · January 12th, 2008, 12:29 PM

I'm in sort of the same boat, as I'm trying to put together a very similar system to yours, in part based on this thread.

I assume the reviewer on NewEgg is crazy, just as we have frequent posters here who scream their cams are "defective" because they didn't read the manual and set something wrong.

I posted about this issue at the Adobe boards and no one had heard anything about this, with the consensus being that this was unlikely to be an issue.

I guess we'll both have to wait and see.

But it'd be an expensive mistake if true...

John Hewat · January 20th, 2008, 10:38 PM

Had an update on the system, which is built, but failed testing!!

Apparently, that motherboard wouldn't support all five HDDs unless they put some of them into RAID. I said "But that's what I wanted - RAID 0 on the 4 x 500GB Samsungs."

They said, "O, ok, well that's what we'll do then. How many drives do you want it to be?"

I said "One two terabyte stripe."

He said "O, really?" as if it were a mistake. I asked if that was a bad idea. He said no but didn't explain why he had sounded surprised.

Is 2TB too big? I thought it was the right idea...

Josh Chesarek · January 21st, 2008, 11:03 AM

It is not every day you get an order for 2TB :p

Jimmy Moss · January 21st, 2008, 02:45 PM

2TB RAID 0 is fine as long as you don't use it for storage. Backup to somthing else. If I had $5000 for evertime a RAID 0 failed, I'd have $1,000,000,000. =)

Call up Drive Savers or do a google search and ask them how much it would be to recover data from a failed RAID 0.

Harm Millaard · January 21st, 2008, 03:39 PM

John,

A 2TB Raid is not exceptional. What is exceptional is putting that storage in a raid0 with 4 disks, thereby quadrupling the chance of failure in comparison to a single disk and losing ALL data on that raid. With the system you have in mind it might be wise to add a 5-th disk and create a Raid5. That gives you added security in case of a disk failure and minimal performance loss in comparison to a raid0 with 4 disks.

I'm currently looking at a 6 TB Raid5 configuration.

Jimmy Moss · January 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM

RAID 5 would be the way to go. You might need an external enclosure form somthing like that. eSATA mabe.

John Hewat · January 21st, 2008, 08:35 PM

Do you recommend the RAID 5 for the security of the footage?

I handle all my own back ups of important footage to external HDDs so I don't feel I need to take an extra security step. Am I right?

Also, I forgot to mention that they were having trouble finding the right driver to make the 4 discs run in RAID 0 without re-installing Windows. He said it was just trial and error until they found the right one.

Does that sound right? I don't understand it at all. Can someone explain to me what he may have meant? The trouble was caused by them installing the four 500GB Samsung drives as separate drives rather than as a RAID 0, and now that they are going back to correct that, they are having difficulty.

What does that mean and is it bad?

Adam Gold · January 21st, 2008, 10:07 PM

I don't know if this is helpful, but I downloaded and read the whole manual for the system I'm putting together now (based on a Supermicro barebones server) and it's very insistent that the RAID config must be set up BEFORE installing the OS.

From the SuperWorkstation 7045A-WT manual:

"After all the hardware has been installed, you must first configure the Intel ESB2 SATA RAID before you install the Windows Operating System and other software drivers." (p.111)

Not sure if this is applicable to your system or not...

EDIT: Just went back and found your system specs and your motherboard is in fact the same specific one referenced in the 7045 manual.

John Hewat · January 21st, 2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

EDIT: Just went back and found your system specs and your motherboard is in fact the same specific one referenced in the 7045 manual.

You're right - I went and found it too. It says exactly that

Page 99 of the X7DWA-N manual:

"To configure the SATA RAID functions, you must first use the Intel ESB2 SATA RAID Utility program to configure the RAID Level that you desire before installing the Windows XP/2000/2003 operating system and other software drivers. (The necessary drivers are all included on the Supermicro CD that came packaged with your motherboard.) Note: the current version of the ESB2 SATA RAID Utility can only support Windows XP/2000/2003 Operating Systems."

December 26th, 2007, 01:27 PM	#184
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	The X5450 is also in stock. In is about 30% cheaper, doesn't use half step multipliers, and should have better sync with the DDR2 667 Ram (9:2 instead of 19:4 clock ratio) __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

January 20th, 2008, 10:38 PM	#188
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Had an update on the system, which is built, but failed testing!! Apparently, that motherboard wouldn't support all five HDDs unless they put some of them into RAID. I said "But that's what I wanted - RAID 0 on the 4 x 500GB Samsungs." They said, "O, ok, well that's what we'll do then. How many drives do you want it to be?" I said "One two terabyte stripe." He said "O, really?" as if it were a mistake. I asked if that was a bad idea. He said no but didn't explain why he had sounded surprised. Is 2TB too big? I thought it was the right idea... __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

January 21st, 2008, 11:03 AM	#189
Josh Chesarek Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 978	It is not every day you get an order for 2TB :p __________________ Simple Thought Productions - Life @ 30,000 Words per second

January 21st, 2008, 08:35 PM	#193
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Do you recommend the RAID 5 for the security of the footage? I handle all my own back ups of important footage to external HDDs so I don't feel I need to take an extra security step. Am I right? Also, I forgot to mention that they were having trouble finding the right driver to make the 4 discs run in RAID 0 without re-installing Windows. He said it was just trial and error until they found the right one. Does that sound right? I don't understand it at all. Can someone explain to me what he may have meant? The trouble was caused by them installing the four 500GB Samsung drives as separate drives rather than as a RAID 0, and now that they are going back to correct that, they are having difficulty. What does that mean and is it bad? __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

December 20th, 2007, 08:02 AM	#182
Phillip Smith Tourist Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lebanon, In Posts: 4	This is a pretty good explaination of interleaved memory I found on the net. Just replace block with bank. Interleaving Interleaving is an advanced technique used by high-end motherboards/chipsets to improve memory performance. Memory interleaving increases bandwidth by allowing simultaneous access to more than one chunk of memory. This improves performance because the processor can transfer more information to/from memory in the same amount of time, and helps alleviate the processor-memory bottleneck that is a major limiting factor in overall performance. Interleaving works by dividing the system memory into multiple blocks. The most common numbers are two or four, called two-way or four-way interleaving, respectively. Each block of memory is accessed using different sets of control lines, which are merged together on the memory bus. When a read or write is begun to one block, a read or write to other blocks can be overlapped with the first one. The more blocks, the more that overlapping can be done. As an analogy, consider eating a plate of food with a fork. Two-way interleaving would mean dividing the food onto two plates and eating with both hands, using two forks. (Four-way interleaving would require two more hands. :^) ) Remember that here the processor is doing the "eating" and it is much faster than the forks (memory) "feeding" it (unlike a person, whose hands are generally faster.) In order to get the best performance from this type of memory system, consecutive memory addresses are spread over the different blocks of memory. In other words, if you have 4 blocks of interleaved memory, the system doesn't fill the first block, and then the second and so on. It uses all 4 blocks, spreading the memory around so that the interleaving can be exploited. Interleaving is an advanced technique that is not generally supported by most PC motherboards, most likely due to cost. It is most helpful on high-end systems, especially servers, that have to process a great deal of information quickly.

December 26th, 2007, 07:45 AM	#183
Phillip Smith Tourist Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lebanon, In Posts: 4	X5460's in stock at NewEgg!! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...7137&Tpk=x5460

January 11th, 2008, 06:43 PM	#185
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Interestingly, the one reviewer who posted about this CPU at NewEgg said the following: "Pros: Works well except with Adobe After Affects and Premiere Pro "Cons: Does not work with Adobe AF and PPRO, Do not buy this processor until Adobe has fixed their software" Is this guy all wet or is there a possibility this is true?

January 12th, 2008, 12:29 PM	#187
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I'm in sort of the same boat, as I'm trying to put together a very similar system to yours, in part based on this thread. I assume the reviewer on NewEgg is crazy, just as we have frequent posters here who scream their cams are "defective" because they didn't read the manual and set something wrong. I posted about this issue at the Adobe boards and no one had heard anything about this, with the consensus being that this was unlikely to be an issue. I guess we'll both have to wait and see. But it'd be an expensive mistake if true...

January 21st, 2008, 02:45 PM	#190
Jimmy Moss Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 48	2TB RAID 0 is fine as long as you don't use it for storage. Backup to somthing else. If I had $5000 for evertime a RAID 0 failed, I'd have $1,000,000,000. =) Call up Drive Savers or do a google search and ask them how much it would be to recover data from a failed RAID 0.

January 21st, 2008, 03:39 PM	#191
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	John, A 2TB Raid is not exceptional. What is exceptional is putting that storage in a raid0 with 4 disks, thereby quadrupling the chance of failure in comparison to a single disk and losing ALL data on that raid. With the system you have in mind it might be wise to add a 5-th disk and create a Raid5. That gives you added security in case of a disk failure and minimal performance loss in comparison to a raid0 with 4 disks. I'm currently looking at a 6 TB Raid5 configuration.

January 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM	#192
Jimmy Moss Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 48	RAID 5 would be the way to go. You might need an external enclosure form somthing like that. eSATA mabe.

January 21st, 2008, 10:07 PM	#194
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I don't know if this is helpful, but I downloaded and read the whole manual for the system I'm putting together now (based on a Supermicro barebones server) and it's very insistent that the RAID config must be set up BEFORE installing the OS. From the SuperWorkstation 7045A-WT manual: "After all the hardware has been installed, you must first configure the Intel ESB2 SATA RAID before you install the Windows Operating System and other software drivers." (p.111) Not sure if this is applicable to your system or not... EDIT: Just went back and found your system specs and your motherboard is in fact the same specific one referenced in the 7045 manual.