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Old December 2nd, 2007, 01:27 PM   #106
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Also, just spoke to another guy who's doing a quote for me and he said I was insane for looking at the Xeons. He said if I could see a performance increase in 8 cores of Xeon over the Core 2 Extreme QX6850 3.00GHz he'd give me the computer!

He also told me that CS3 wouldn't even use the 8 cores and that the 8800GT may have the full screen preview re-enabled, unlike other 8 series Nvidia cards.

So he just confused me and I don't know what to make of his opinions...
I would take him up on his word. It may save you significantly on expenses! I just tested a two E5345 CPU Supermicro system with both Edius and Premiere Pro CS3 and while rendering or exporting/encoding to MPEG2-DVD, all 8 cores were used in both applications. Tested with ProcExp running. The difference between these applications is in the memory footprint, Edius is clearly less hungry for memory.

The nVidia 8800GT/512 is around € 200 over here and delivers far better performance than the 8600 GTS/256, which runs around € 150.
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 01:36 PM   #107
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Think I'll do that.

Also, is there a 3.00GHz quad xeon in the 53xx series? I can't find one higher that 2.66GHz. The only 3.00GHz I can find is in the 54xx series, which isn't available over here yet...

Also, just spoke to another guy who's doing a quote for me and he said I was insane for looking at the Xeons. He said if I could see a performance increase in 8 cores of Xeon over the Core 2 Extreme QX6850 3.00GHz he'd give me the computer!

He also told me that CS3 wouldn't even use the 8 cores and that the 8800GT may have the full screen preview re-enabled, unlike other 8 series Nvidia cards.

So he just confused me and I don't know what to make of his opinions...
That guy doesn't seem to know what we is talking about. There are tons of tests you could run to prove that the Xeon system is faster, provided you had the systems to test with. Any complex comp in AE with Render Multiple Frames on will see improvement. PPro will see improvement in HD exports in Native mode, and should also see improvement in CineformRT mode but I am not certain on that. There are no indications that the 8800GT re-enabled overlay. If so I am sure we would have heard about it from all of the excited owners. There probably are workarounds with old drivers and XP, but that is of limited use.
As I said before, Core2Quad will probably be SUFFICIENT, but Dual Xeons will be FASTER. The only legitimate question is, is the increased speed worth the significantly increased cost?

The Xeon 5365 is thechip that Apple has been using in its 8core Macs since April. It is available from a number of distributors in the US, hopefully you can find one down there.
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 04:31 PM   #108
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It is the X5365, introduced in august.
Found it! It's $1,500 AU, whereas the new 45nm equivalent is just under $1200!!

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PPro will see improvement [with xeons] in HD exports in Native mode, and should also see improvement in CineformRT mode but I am not certain on that.
RT mode? Real time you mean? If so, how can it be improved upon real time?

Quote:
There are no indications that the 8800GT re-enabled overlay. If so I am sure we would have heard about it from all of the excited owners. There probably are workarounds with old drivers and XP, but that is of limited use.
I don't want to mess around with workarounds - that's why I want a super-duper computer, so that I never have to fiddle under the hood or mess with drivers or have trouble with footage not playing or blah blah blah...

I haven't had a week with my PC without troubleshooting. I'm hoping that goes away with this new one.

Quote:
As I said before, Core2Quad will probably be SUFFICIENT, but Dual Xeons will be FASTER. The only legitimate question is, is the increased speed worth the significantly increased cost?
At this stage, my quotes vary in price by about $1700 but I may be able to reduce the Xeon system by $700 in which case I'll definitely get it. The Intel S5000XVNSATAR motherboard supports the 65nm chipsets as well as the 45nm ones, so I'll be able to upgrade in the future. I may even wait a month for the 45nm 3.00GHz processor because it's not that much more expensive than the 65nm 2.66GHz one!

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The nVidia 8800GT/512 is around € 200 over here and delivers far better performance than the 8600 GTS/256, which runs around € 150.
But I thought that CS3 and Prospect HD don't use the GPU so it doesn't matter, right? Though I think it was Mike who said that a good GPU would help with Magic Bullet one way or another.

I'm now looking at the 7950, which is HDCP compliant and would still have full screen video enabled.

Either that or it's go with an ATI or Quadro card...

Also, the board he reocmmended for the Core 2 Extreme system is the Intel DX38BT. which apparently does not have Hyper Threading enabled according to the site on the link. I don't know what that is, though someome told me I should have it.

Is that board better than something like the ASUS Striker Extreme or some of the more common gamer boards?
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 04:53 PM   #109
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John,

I know that $ 200 here and $ 200 there soon adds up to real money, but at this moment the nVidia 8800 GT gives the best bang-for-the-buck. Whether you will see any performance increase with the current NLE's is doubtful. At most it is marginal. For that reason you could easily opt for a nVidia 79xx series and save some, but if you intend to use the system for several years or do 3d animations for instance, you may well benefit from the more advanced capabilities of the 8800 GT.

Hyperthreading is no longer available on the Core family. It has been abandoned.
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 06:39 PM   #110
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Good to hear that the 45nm release resulted in lower prices somewhere.

Xeons could improve realtime by supprting more layers and effects, etc.

The 8800GT is unquestionably a faster card, but that capability comes at the expense of overlay compatibility.

Stay tuned for hyperthreading to be re-introduced to the new archetecture next year Nov, as well as CPU integrated memory controllers, like AMD. Regardless, I wouldn't sweat it at the moment, rumors and vapor-ware for now.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 05:46 AM   #111
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the nVidia 8800 GT gives the best bang-for-the-buck.
but I can't do full screen preview to my nice big 24" monitor with it. So it's out of the question unfortunately.

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Good to hear that the 45nm release resulted in lower prices somewhere.
It's interesting - some retailers are saying that they'll be more expensive but don't have prices, some are saying the opposite, but the only actual prices I can find have them cheaper.

Have a look at this comparison of the 5355 which is the one in my system quote and the 4530:

http://www.techbuy.com.au/compare.as...re_68923=68923

Am I missing something here? These two CPUs are equivalents aren't they? 65nm vs 45nm and the 45nm one only about 60% of the price??
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Old December 4th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #112
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John,

Just comparing prices quoted, I would have no doubt choosing the Harpertown. Even if prices were equal, I would still choose Harpertown because of the larger L2 cache, SSE4 extensions, lower TDP and further optimizations. The E5430 is quoted by Intel as having a price of $ 455, so in AUS$ this seems like a fair price. Keep in mind that one is passive and the other active, so there is a slight difference in price (normally less than $15) but check the correct one for your mobo. For instance the SuperMicro chassis I have been talking about require passive version for the air shroud to work.

For comparison the quotes I got in the Netherlands for the X5355 are around € 680, the X5365 around € 1020 and the X5472 around € 960. Prices are inclusive of 19% sales tax.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #113
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Wow, I though Sales Tax was high here.

I have been finding these lower prices the last few days. This is what I was expecting to see happen, but had seen no evidence of it taking place during the first few weeks after the "launch."

This is why I have been waiting. I will be a lot more confident once I see them in stock somewhere, but things are looking up.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 05:22 PM   #114
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I will be a lot more confident once I see them in stock somewhere, but things are looking up.
Me too. I am right in assuming that the 54xx series CPUs are the 45nm ones, right?

All the retailers list them as being 65nm still.

Maybe I'm just way off...

And what's going on here exactly:

5450 vs 5450

Why do they have the same specs and model numbers but different prices?
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Old December 4th, 2007, 06:05 PM   #115
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I have seen the same thing happen over here. Usually it is caused by the fact that they use different sources/suppliers to get the same goods. If purchase prices differ amongst different suppliers you can benefit, but also noteworthy is that the cheaper offers are almost always out of stock, whereas the pricier ones are often in stock.

Intels that start with 5xxx are Xeons, the second number is indicative of the chip generation, 1 for Woodcrest, 3 for Clovertown and 4 for Harpertown. The last one is a member of the Penryn generation, 45 nm technology. The prefix E or X is indicative of the TDP, for instance the E5472 and X5472 have a respective TDP of 80 W and 120 W but for the rest do not differ, apart from price.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #116
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Intels that start with 5xxx are Xeons... 4 for Harpertown. The last one is a member of the Penryn generation, 45 nm technology.
So all 54xx are 45nm PCUs? Becuase the web sites are listing them as 65nm... weird. It's so frustrating not being able to get expert advice from retailers. The help that you two guys have been giving me is enormous and invaluable, whereas most people over here - the very people who will end up building the machine - have been relatively useless...

Quote:
The prefix E or X is indicative of the TDP, for instance the E5472 and X5472 have a respective TDP of 80 W and 120 W but for the rest do not differ, apart from price.
TDP?? I assume it has something to do with power usage. It's probably not a big deal right?
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Old December 5th, 2007, 02:12 AM   #117
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TDP relates to heat generated (Thermal Dissipation Something or other). There are 5 series of LGA771 Xeons:

5000 series: Dempsey, dual Netburst cores, less efficient, 3.73Ghz max
5100 series: Woodcrest dual core, 3.0Ghz max, 65nm, June06
5200 series: Wolfdale Core, dual core, up to 3.4Ghz, 45nm, Nov07
5300 series: Clovertown quad core, 2 Woodcrests, 3.0Ghz max, 65nm, Nov06
5400 series: Harpertown quad core, 2 Wolfdales, 3.2Ghz max, 45nm, Nov07

5400 should be faster and cheaper than 5300 at a given clock speed due to the 45nm process, its called progress. Same with the 5200s over the 5100s. The 5000 series exists on a different scale since it is PentiumD based unstead of Core2 based architecture.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 05:45 AM   #118
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5400 series: Harpertown quad core, 2 Wolfdales, 3.2Ghz max, 45nm
I've decided that (if I go with Xeons) I'll definitely get dual X5450s at 3.00GHz each. However the motherboards that have been recommended to me I'm not so certain about.

Looking at them online I can't see any evidence of them supporting the 45nm chips, nor that they even support quad core cpus.

Intel S5000VSASASR
Intel S5000XVNSATAR

I'm way too confused about the motherboards. I'm pretty sure one of you guys said the VSA was ok in an earlier reply (I'll check in a sec) but I can't remember. I'm starting to tear my hair out...
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Old December 5th, 2007, 05:58 AM   #119
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This is what you said, Mike, about the VSA MB:

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That MB is a server board, a similar but 'Workstation' class board might be a better fit. Any reason why that one in particular was selected?
Could you suggest a more appropriate workstation board that definitely fits the 45nm quad cores?

Also, you said this:

Quote:
A faster video card WILL help for MagicBullet, at least that is what I am told.
Can you elaborate here? Does Magic Bullet utilise the GPU to increase rendering speed?

And if so, am I better off with:
1. Dual Quadros
2. Quadro + my 7800
3. my 7800 + a 7600

I'm not prepared to pay big for a GPU because I will not use it for gaming and I'll probably never do 3D work (unless Magic Bullet is 3D but I don't think so).

So if I did get a Quadro (or two) I'd only get cheap ones - can you advise me on this as well?

Thanks so much again!!
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Old December 5th, 2007, 06:35 AM   #120
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John,

On the motherboard, I would have a serious look at the one I mentioned earlier, the SuperMicro X7DWA-N, which supports the 5400 CPU series and uses the 5400X Seaburg chipset. That is a workstation mobo, not a server one. It is the latest upgrade from the Greencreek X chipset.

I will respond later on your graphics question.
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