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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:22 AM   #31
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

Jack, yes, I did see the oversharpening but I saw no smearing (I know you've mentioned that before, but I don't think many people saw that or agreed). On another forum one member watched on a 65" Sony 4K TV and saw none of these artifacts. With that said, I was still more impressed with what appeared to me to be greater resolution of the AX100...not just sharpness. For the life of me, I have no idea why Panasonic decided to keep in their demo reel the clips of the flamingos that were obviously soft.

Was this softness the result of misfocusing or something else? If it was a focusing error, it doesn't bode well for non-professionals trying to get accurate focus in 4K with a shallow DOF when the pro couldn't achieve it. The moire was also a bit concerning, but I'm not sure if that's the result of the 4K clips being downrez'd on YouTube or actual issues with the camera.


We'll have to wait and see how the actual footage out of these cameras holds up.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:48 AM   #32
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Steven Ansell View Post
Most people are not replacing their TV sets because a newer model comes out, they replace them when they get old. When they do that they will probably choose whatever the current technology is. Mistaking that as a driving force for sales is paranoid. Very few people look at their TV sets (or any household appliance for that matter) in the same way that they might with their cell phones.
Steve has described me perfectly. My wife and I replace our cel phones every other generation (iPhone 3S, 4S, now 5S), but the television set in the living room -- a 50" 2009 Panasonic PZ850 -- will stay there until its power board gets borked for the second time. It's already blown once, two months out of warranty, and there ain't gonna be no third time.

I could buy a 4K set today. But my most compelling reason not to do that is, what am I going to do with this big-ass PZ850 if it's still working perfectly? It's too big to ship anywhere, so that rules out Ebay or otherwise trying to sell it online. Craigslist? Meh. It's too big for my dad's house and my in-laws don't need it. All my neighbors already have their big flat-panels. So, I gotta wait for this one to break. Hmm...
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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:53 AM   #33
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
As more 4k consumer cams come out, that's great but I'm still left wondering how consumers are going to playback that 4k content on their UHD televisions?

You're right Tom, it's a question I've wrestled with for a long time. We know the AX100 will play back raw footage OOC to a Sony UHD TV. But will it play it OOC to a Samsung...to an LG...to a Panasonic?

I have an AX100 on order and Best Buy has welcomed me to come over with the camera and try plugging it in to a Samsung to see whether or not it's compatible. That should be an interesting exercise.

As for an edited project, yikes! I know my Edius 7 accepts the Sony codec, but even there I don't know how it will output the project. Even if it outputs back to the original Sony codec, how do you get it back to even a Sony UHD TV? Can you put it back on the SDXC card or, as is more than likely, will the file not be recognized because it doesn't have the proper file structure created within the camera?

It's a brave new 4K world...or is it just a scary new 4K world? ;)
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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:57 AM   #34
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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So, I gotta wait for this one to break. Hmm...
Chris, may I suggest taking an 'accidental' hit to the PZ850 with a hammer? ****happens. :)
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Old February 8th, 2014, 12:24 PM   #35
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Which camera can do 10bit 4:2:2 in 4k to a external recorder for around 1500dollar?
Yep -- I bet Canon are now rallying their 8-bit 1DC troops for the upcoming NAB, (among a few other 4K manufacturers ;^) Interesting times, indeed.

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Old February 8th, 2014, 12:25 PM   #36
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Jack, yes, I did see the oversharpening but I saw no smearing (I know you've mentioned that before, but I don't think many people saw that or agreed). On another forum one member watched on a 65" Sony 4K TV and saw none of these artifacts. With that said, I was still more impressed with what appeared to me to be greater resolution of the AX100...not just sharpness. For the life of me, I have no idea why Panasonic decided to keep in their demo reel the clips of the flamingos that were obviously soft.

Was this softness the result of misfocusing or something else? If it was a focusing error, it doesn't bode well for non-professionals trying to get accurate focus in 4K with a shallow DOF when the pro couldn't achieve it. The moire was also a bit concerning, but I'm not sure if that's the result of the 4K clips being downrez'd on YouTube or actual issues with the camera.


We'll have to wait and see how the actual footage out of these cameras holds up.
It was more than likely a focusing error on that one shot. Under controlled conditions with a stationary object, I'm willing to bet the focus is just as good as the GH3. We won't know until we see raw GH4 footage how well the camera stands up ungraded with it's stock codecs.

The smearing in the AX100 is only apparent on the outermost edges of the frame, and is most apparent where lines intersect the edges of the frame. They don't look as crisp due to internal processing taking the raw square pixels uncorrected and correcting for the lens. You have to look at a 100% crop to see what I'm talking about. The boat scene in the sample video shows this on the very left and center of the frame.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 12:33 PM   #37
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
As more 4k consumer cams come out, that's great but I'm still left wondering how consumers are going to playback that 4k content on their UHD televisions?
I've said this before -- in post, with 4k footage, you'll have more leverage to push in, pan across, and tweak it beyond any regular HD footage -- no matter if its final destination is only 1080p, (or even 720p).

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Old February 8th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #38
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
As for an edited project, yikes! I know my Edius 7 accepts the Sony codec, but even there I don't know how it will output the project. Even if it outputs back to the original Sony codec, how do you get it back to even a Sony UHD TV? Can you put it back on the SDXC card or, as is more than likely, will the file not be recognized because it doesn't have the proper file structure created within the camera?

It's a brave new 4K world...or is it just a scary new 4K world? ;)
Lol, yes :)

Playing out 4k from the camera to the UHDTV over the HDMI should work. But if I edit the 4k XAVC video from the f55 in Vegas, render it back out to XAVC, then copy the file to the SxS memory card, the camera won't play it. So the camera as a *media server* is incomplete.

If I render out a 28 mb/s 4k h.264 file with x264, Windows Media Player plays it beautifully in HD, it looks great and can be streamed to the HDTV over the hdmi. I'm sure it would still look excellent in 4k but it's now been reduced to 8 bit 4:2:0 rec.709.

To make that happen in 4k however requires a 4k gpu graphics card. I just don't like the solution when these new 4k tvs have usb ports for playing media like photos and HD directly, to not support 4k seems like more than omission.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 01:52 PM   #39
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

^^^ This is what I was assuming, that if one has an UHDTV display or projector, at least you could play your 4K motion footage directly from the camera to it. Which would be really cool at least to see what the raw footage looks like. Is that correct?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 02:15 PM   #40
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

Does it record 4K internal or I need the interface unit?

It says " One of the most prominent advance is unlimited 4K video recording..." but then It says "Motion image can be recorded up to 29 min 59 sec.." So limited ?

I'm confused
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Old February 8th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #41
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Bill Bruner View Post
GH4 has peaking and zebras. As a GH3 owner, this alone is worth the upgrade. DCI-compliant 4K is just a bonus.
Yes. Those two things are in the PR. You can thank those who've been vocal critics of Panasonic while fanboys made excuses for Panasonic. You're welcome. There's several flaws in the GH3 firmware that have gone unfixed no doubt as Panasonic was busy on 4K. Frankly, imagine how much better cameras at this price point would be if manufacturers didn't have to chase yet something else from the spreadsheet toting MBAs in product marketing. You know, like a camera that can keep the overlay displays on for more than 10 seconds. Or in the case of the GH3, a small LCD that shows your shooting settings at a glance. Better yet, Custom settings that actually stores exposure and WB settings.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 03:25 PM   #42
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Jack Zhang View Post
.
The smearing in the AX100 is only apparent on the outermost edges of the frame, and is most apparent where lines intersect the edges of the frame. They don't look as crisp due to internal processing taking the raw square pixels uncorrected and correcting for the lens. You have to look at a 100% crop to see what I'm talking about. The boat scene in the sample video shows this on the very left and center of the frame.
When it comes to video Jack, I'm not a pixel peeper. If I'm watching my own material on a 64" plasma, I'll watch from about 8'. So no issues regarding that 'issue'. :)
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Old February 8th, 2014, 03:31 PM   #43
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Ron Fabienke View Post
^^^ This is what I was assuming, that if one has an UHDTV display or projector, at least you could play your 4K motion footage directly from the camera to it. Which would be really cool at least to see what the raw footage looks like. Is that correct?
Yes Ron, that's correct. You can play the AX100 output directly from the camera's HDMI output to a Sony UHD TV. However, I'm not sure if that would work if you did the same thing from the AX100 to a Samsung UHD TV. You would think it would work, but until I see someone try it on a different brand with success, who knows for sure?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 06:33 PM   #44
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

Newsshooter editor Dan Chung talks to Hotrod Camera's owner Illya Friedman about the new Panasonic GH4.
Friedman is one of the lucky few that has already had hands on with the GH4 and is has been selling and supporting Panasonic's GH line for cine use for many years.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 08:18 PM   #45
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Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4

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Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post
You can thank those who've been vocal critics of Panasonic while fanboys made excuses for Panasonic. You're welcome.
As if the "vocal critics" have anything to do with the improvements on the gh4, there used to be a time where user input was taken into consideration of which the dvx line was a good example but that's a long time ago, the only impression I get now is that new products are either rushed to keep up with competing manufacturers or deliberately crippled to protect any other product, either cheaper or more expensive models they have in their pipeline.

I like the gh4 in it's bare form, only for it's 4k capability which could give me reframing options which can be essential to me as a solo shooter and the fact I can use all my existing glass on it, the few improvements, added features, ease of use when you are a gh3 owner and the low prize (1500 euro in The Netherlands) are just a bonus, but fact remains that once you start adding accessories like the batterygrip/xlr 'brick' thing and a external recorder for your 10 bit 4:2:2 recording option the camera becomes a ergonomical nightmare, still having to add a nd filter and the stupid 30 minute recording limit for EU people doesn't help much either but maybe the vocal critics can make that change for the next gh5 version? :)
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