Show Your Work 2003

Nori Wentworth · December 16th, 2002, 07:19 PM

The band played about 10 songs, including "gun in hand". I was on the stage for the first 7 songs with my XL1. After that I was just running around wherever I could.

There was a balcony across from the stage that all the shots that appear black and white were shot from. I went black and white for these because the band used a lot of red gels on their lights, which on stage looked okay, but from a wide angle looked like crap. I got the fastest shutter speed I could for everyshot depending on the bands light changes.

1 - camera
10 - songs played only once, live.

If any one ever gets a chance to shoot something like this, take it!
Having the abillity to break away from all of the traditional angles and rules of filming was extremely refreshing.

-Nori

Mark Austin · December 16th, 2002, 08:08 PM

But you knew I'd like it didn't you!! Whew, what a visual experience. I loved the shots into the light with the blazing lens flare, the bizzare camera angles, B&W shots, and camera movements. I really got the feeling of the intensity of the show! After cutting my punk video together (from only 18 minutes of clips) I can appreciate the huge amount of work that must have gone into this video. It's pretty active for a one camera shoot.

The only thing I think I'm going to try to do differently on my next one is to try to get some "room noise" to add a more live feel to it. I know it's hard to get that stuff without ruining the song you are cutting to, so it's my quest / mission for the next band video; I'll let you know how I make out.

Nori..we simply MUST do lunch sometime :)

Cheers!
Mark

p.s. these are the kind of projects that get me out of bed every morning.

Derrick Begin · December 18th, 2002, 12:51 PM

I have searched the forum regarding 'digital projection.' I can find discussions, but no equipment listed.

Here is the scoop:

I need to see my work projected since that is what I am intending it for. I am looking for a decent resolution projector to fill a small theatre (So that if I can't afford to rent at one of the film centers, I can do my own at a different venue)

Does anyone have experience in this?

What are the projectors you used?

I see alot of projectors advertised ala BH Photo, etc, for a price range of 1500-5000. What about these? Do they do the job?

These are generic questions. I know there are questions of, how far away the projector is from the screen, etc.

I am looking for a start...

Thanks for the input!

Cheers!

Derrick

Don Donatello · December 19th, 2002, 02:09 PM

go over to
http://www.projectorcentral.com/

read the reviews on INFOCUS X1 ($1500) and the Sanyo PLV Z1 ($2000)

Derrick Begin · December 19th, 2002, 02:13 PM

Thanks Donatello!

Cheers!

Rick Spilman · December 19th, 2002, 02:38 PM

I have used my LCD projector to project video. Everthing depends on the size of the screen and the brightness of the projector. If the theater is small enough and the projector is bright enough you will be fine.

Measure the space, the screen and the distance you will need to project and then look into renting a projector. I'd loan you mine but I doubt it would be powerful enough.

Rick

Derrick Begin · December 19th, 2002, 03:12 PM

Rick!

Thanks for the offer and... Aye, there's the trouble at the moment. I am having a hard time locating a fair priced space which I can show the production. I'll then have to consider the projector in that particular space...

I think I'll rent one...

Thanks for the input!

Cheers!

Derrick

Kyle "Doc" Mitchell · December 20th, 2002, 11:24 AM

Hello Derrick:

I have worked with and shown some of my projects on digital projectors (and I used to work for a company that sold digital projectors as well), so I might be able to help you here.

Things to consider (some of these may have been mentioned):

+ Brightness: look for something with 1200 ANSI lumens or more. I don't know what your source footage looks like, but generally the brighter the bulb in the better. However! If your project is "film noir" always consider black levels on the projector. Depending on the technology, the brighter projector may wash-out some of the deeper black levels, making your presentation not as - for the lack of a better term - cinematic looking. This problem is generally seen with LCD projector models 2-3 years old. Light passes from the bulb in the projector is so powerful it unevenly hits the LCD panels so that even places where there is supposed to be no light hitting (i.e. where its supposed to be black) and the black from your film will look a little grey. You definitely don't want that.

I have used JVC's technology the D-ILA. Here, the light from the bulb inside the projector is reflected off of tiny mirrors before it hits the color RGB panels, mixing your image color better. And, if the mirrors do not turn, no light hits the panels; therefore, you have better blacks. I don't know how much these projectors cost nowadays, but the one I used - the JVC G15U cost around $12000. There are other models out there.

+ Aspect ratio and resolution: Think of the kind of footage you will be projecting: will it be 16x9 or 4x3?; what will you be playing your footage on? I have always played my footage from my computer on site, meaning I've always lugged around a pc to where i was going to show the movie with the projector which is a major headache and won't do much longer. Anyways, I always hook my computer up to the digital projector, and I like to use XGA (now theres QXGA I think). So make sure your projector you're getting has the resolution that you can utilize with your computer or dvd player. If you're going to be showing the footage from a dvd and your source footage is 16x9 in aspect ration, getting a projector with that native aspect ratio would be your best bet as the projector can utilize all of its panels strength into showing your footage. In other words, if you have native 4x3 chips in your projector but always show footage that is 16x9, you're not using all of the resolution capabilities on your projector. Some 4x3 projectors that I remember that are good and in your price range are the JVC 21N, and Sony X1000U. The 21N is definitely the better of these two, as I have seen the X1000U in action. 16x9 projectors that are in your budget are the Sanyo PLV-60 (I think the "70" is out now with even higher resolution with native 16x9 chips and better brightness - the 60 was 1200 ANSI lumens I believe), there is also the Sony VPLVW10HT - known as the 10HT - and the later models are the 11HT and 12HT recently came out I believe. I have used the 10HT a year and a half ago and I think the footage looked ok for what I was showing. It has good black levels, and with the arrival of the 11HT and 12HT, is definitely low in price if you can find it.

+ Throw distance: This is extremely important especially if you have a large room. Most of these low/medium priced digital projectors are designed for business presentaiton or home theater use where the distance between the projector and the screen are around 10-13 ft. or so. You probably can imagine what the image would look like if you have the projector too far back, so you know what you're up against. My recommendation is, if you rent the projector, to ask what the relationship between the focal length of the lens of the particular projector is and the distance away from the surface you'll be projecting on. The salesperson should be able to take the measurements and tell you the max. and min. distances you can set the projector up on. If you need the projector farther back, rent a long-throw lens. Shouldn't be too much of a problem as companies must deal with this often and there is demand for long-throw lenses.

+ One other thing to consider is the features of the projector you're renting. Sometimes you can't control much the location of where you set the projector for the showing (one time, I used a digital projector on a grass hill outside projecting across to the screen at the base of the hill - another headache). So, some features you might want would be digital keystoning. Here, you can move the projected image to angle on the screen correctly. Also, check if there is a screen shift feature. Here, you can move the entire image up or down, leaving the image the same size, just a different location on the screen, leaving your projector in its same location. Its a great feature if you can't move the projector and the surface is not directly in front of the projector but to the left or right, or up or down. This comes with the PLV-60 and 70 I know for sure.

These are just some quick things to think about. I generally worry about brightness and resolution. I'm also sure that the technologies have changed substantially as I have been out of the projecting business for a little while.

Regards,

Kyle "Doc" Mitchell

Derrick Begin · December 20th, 2002, 11:46 AM

Kyle,

Thanks for the plethora of information. You gave me an edge which I can use.

As far as my current/future project(s) I am shooting and editing in 16:9, so I'll definately be looking for that native.

Thank you so much for the information. I didn't know there was a long throw lense out there to cover more distance.

A print-out that I'll definately keep.

Do you know how much the bulbs generally run when they burn out? (This question just krept up on me)

Cheers!

Derrick

Kyle "Doc" Mitchell · January 2nd, 2003, 07:49 PM

Derrick:

Sorry about the delay in a response - Christmas/New Year Holidays, ya know?

Anyways, I've seen bulbs for around $350 for the Sony VPL-VW series, to $1000 for JVC models. Prices vary. If you buy a bulb from a reseller, make sure that they have a return policy thats at least 2 weeks. The worst thing to have happen is to get your bulb in the mail only to find out its damaged!

Regards,

Kyle "Doc" Mitchell

Tim Joseph · January 8th, 2003, 02:30 PM

Nori. Would you mind if i emailed you to pick your brain for a little while? I have someone who wants to pay me to shoot concert video locally and would like to ask some things. Thank you!

Nori Wentworth · January 8th, 2003, 03:12 PM

E-mail away!

Andreas Fernbrant · January 10th, 2003, 05:20 PM

I've been watching this site for quite a while because
of we both like acrobatic martial arts training. He also
make short movies.. This one is funny and among his
better works.

His name is Ilram Choi..
Check it out here..

http://www.ilram.com/M_Dtown_temp.html

Dylan Couper · January 10th, 2003, 06:46 PM

HAhahahaa! That had one of the funniest shots I've seen on a web video.
"Go you crazy Jew!"
Looked like an XL1 lens hood he dropped.

The rest of it was well edited, shot OK. I didn't get the concept at first, and then because of camera angles, didn't get an idea of the stunts they were doing. Probably because I'm not familliar with the "sport". Cool though.

Marc Betz · January 10th, 2003, 06:52 PM

I laughed.

December 16th, 2002, 08:08 PM	#17
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	FREEKIN AWESOME!!!! But you knew I'd like it didn't you!! Whew, what a visual experience. I loved the shots into the light with the blazing lens flare, the bizzare camera angles, B&W shots, and camera movements. I really got the feeling of the intensity of the show! After cutting my punk video together (from only 18 minutes of clips) I can appreciate the huge amount of work that must have gone into this video. It's pretty active for a one camera shoot. The only thing I think I'm going to try to do differently on my next one is to try to get some "room noise" to add a more live feel to it. I know it's hard to get that stuff without ruining the song you are cutting to, so it's my quest / mission for the next band video; I'll let you know how I make out. Nori..we simply MUST do lunch sometime :) Cheers! Mark p.s. these are the kind of projects that get me out of bed every morning. __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

December 18th, 2002, 12:51 PM	#18
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	*** * Digital Projection * *** I have searched the forum regarding 'digital projection.' I can find discussions, but no equipment listed. Here is the scoop: I need to see my work projected since that is what I am intending it for. I am looking for a decent resolution projector to fill a small theatre (So that if I can't afford to rent at one of the film centers, I can do my own at a different venue) Does anyone have experience in this? What are the projectors you used? I see alot of projectors advertised ala BH Photo, etc, for a price range of 1500-5000. What about these? Do they do the job? These are generic questions. I know there are questions of, how far away the projector is from the screen, etc. I am looking for a start... Thanks for the input! Cheers! Derrick

January 8th, 2003, 02:30 PM	#26
Tim Joseph Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 35	Nori. Would you mind if i emailed you to pick your brain for a little while? I have someone who wants to pay me to shoot concert video locally and would like to ask some things. Thank you! __________________ =================== Scheezo Have Camera, Will Travel-

January 10th, 2003, 05:20 PM	#28
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Sweet short.. I've been watching this site for quite a while because of we both like acrobatic martial arts training. He also make short movies.. This one is funny and among his better works. His name is Ilram Choi.. Check it out here.. http://www.ilram.com/M_Dtown_temp.html

January 10th, 2003, 06:52 PM	#30
Marc Betz Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NH Posts: 95	Funny I laughed. __________________ Marc Betz

December 16th, 2002, 07:19 PM	#16
Nori Wentworth Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada Posts: 217	The band played about 10 songs, including "gun in hand". I was on the stage for the first 7 songs with my XL1. After that I was just running around wherever I could. There was a balcony across from the stage that all the shots that appear black and white were shot from. I went black and white for these because the band used a lot of red gels on their lights, which on stage looked okay, but from a wide angle looked like crap. I got the fastest shutter speed I could for everyshot depending on the bands light changes. 1 - camera 10 - songs played only once, live. If any one ever gets a chance to shoot something like this, take it! Having the abillity to break away from all of the traditional angles and rules of filming was extremely refreshing. -Nori

December 19th, 2002, 02:09 PM	#19
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	go over to http://www.projectorcentral.com/ read the reviews on INFOCUS X1 ($1500) and the Sanyo PLV Z1 ($2000)

December 19th, 2002, 02:13 PM	#20
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	Thanks Donatello! Cheers!

December 19th, 2002, 02:38 PM	#21
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	I have used my LCD projector to project video. Everthing depends on the size of the screen and the brightness of the projector. If the theater is small enough and the projector is bright enough you will be fine. Measure the space, the screen and the distance you will need to project and then look into renting a projector. I'd loan you mine but I doubt it would be powerful enough. Rick

December 19th, 2002, 03:12 PM	#22
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	Rick! Thanks for the offer and... Aye, there's the trouble at the moment. I am having a hard time locating a fair priced space which I can show the production. I'll then have to consider the projector in that particular space... I think I'll rent one... Thanks for the input! Cheers! Derrick

December 20th, 2002, 11:24 AM	#23
Kyle "Doc" Mitchell Doconomus Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC, USA Posts: 100	Hello Derrick: I have worked with and shown some of my projects on digital projectors (and I used to work for a company that sold digital projectors as well), so I might be able to help you here. Things to consider (some of these may have been mentioned): + Brightness: look for something with 1200 ANSI lumens or more. I don't know what your source footage looks like, but generally the brighter the bulb in the better. However! If your project is "film noir" always consider black levels on the projector. Depending on the technology, the brighter projector may wash-out some of the deeper black levels, making your presentation not as - for the lack of a better term - cinematic looking. This problem is generally seen with LCD projector models 2-3 years old. Light passes from the bulb in the projector is so powerful it unevenly hits the LCD panels so that even places where there is supposed to be no light hitting (i.e. where its supposed to be black) and the black from your film will look a little grey. You definitely don't want that. I have used JVC's technology the D-ILA. Here, the light from the bulb inside the projector is reflected off of tiny mirrors before it hits the color RGB panels, mixing your image color better. And, if the mirrors do not turn, no light hits the panels; therefore, you have better blacks. I don't know how much these projectors cost nowadays, but the one I used - the JVC G15U cost around $12000. There are other models out there. + Aspect ratio and resolution: Think of the kind of footage you will be projecting: will it be 16x9 or 4x3?; what will you be playing your footage on? I have always played my footage from my computer on site, meaning I've always lugged around a pc to where i was going to show the movie with the projector which is a major headache and won't do much longer. Anyways, I always hook my computer up to the digital projector, and I like to use XGA (now theres QXGA I think). So make sure your projector you're getting has the resolution that you can utilize with your computer or dvd player. If you're going to be showing the footage from a dvd and your source footage is 16x9 in aspect ration, getting a projector with that native aspect ratio would be your best bet as the projector can utilize all of its panels strength into showing your footage. In other words, if you have native 4x3 chips in your projector but always show footage that is 16x9, you're not using all of the resolution capabilities on your projector. Some 4x3 projectors that I remember that are good and in your price range are the JVC 21N, and Sony X1000U. The 21N is definitely the better of these two, as I have seen the X1000U in action. 16x9 projectors that are in your budget are the Sanyo PLV-60 (I think the "70" is out now with even higher resolution with native 16x9 chips and better brightness - the 60 was 1200 ANSI lumens I believe), there is also the Sony VPLVW10HT - known as the 10HT - and the later models are the 11HT and 12HT recently came out I believe. I have used the 10HT a year and a half ago and I think the footage looked ok for what I was showing. It has good black levels, and with the arrival of the 11HT and 12HT, is definitely low in price if you can find it. + Throw distance: This is extremely important especially if you have a large room. Most of these low/medium priced digital projectors are designed for business presentaiton or home theater use where the distance between the projector and the screen are around 10-13 ft. or so. You probably can imagine what the image would look like if you have the projector too far back, so you know what you're up against. My recommendation is, if you rent the projector, to ask what the relationship between the focal length of the lens of the particular projector is and the distance away from the surface you'll be projecting on. The salesperson should be able to take the measurements and tell you the max. and min. distances you can set the projector up on. If you need the projector farther back, rent a long-throw lens. Shouldn't be too much of a problem as companies must deal with this often and there is demand for long-throw lenses. + One other thing to consider is the features of the projector you're renting. Sometimes you can't control much the location of where you set the projector for the showing (one time, I used a digital projector on a grass hill outside projecting across to the screen at the base of the hill - another headache). So, some features you might want would be digital keystoning. Here, you can move the projected image to angle on the screen correctly. Also, check if there is a screen shift feature. Here, you can move the entire image up or down, leaving the image the same size, just a different location on the screen, leaving your projector in its same location. Its a great feature if you can't move the projector and the surface is not directly in front of the projector but to the left or right, or up or down. This comes with the PLV-60 and 70 I know for sure. These are just some quick things to think about. I generally worry about brightness and resolution. I'm also sure that the technologies have changed substantially as I have been out of the projecting business for a little while. Regards, Kyle "Doc" Mitchell

December 20th, 2002, 11:46 AM	#24
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	Kyle, Thanks for the plethora of information. You gave me an edge which I can use. As far as my current/future project(s) I am shooting and editing in 16:9, so I'll definately be looking for that native. Thank you so much for the information. I didn't know there was a long throw lense out there to cover more distance. A print-out that I'll definately keep. Do you know how much the bulbs generally run when they burn out? (This question just krept up on me) Cheers! Derrick

January 2nd, 2003, 07:49 PM	#25
Kyle "Doc" Mitchell Doconomus Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC, USA Posts: 100	Derrick: Sorry about the delay in a response - Christmas/New Year Holidays, ya know? Anyways, I've seen bulbs for around $350 for the Sony VPL-VW series, to $1000 for JVC models. Prices vary. If you buy a bulb from a reseller, make sure that they have a return policy thats at least 2 weeks. The worst thing to have happen is to get your bulb in the mail only to find out its damaged! Regards, Kyle "Doc" Mitchell

January 8th, 2003, 03:12 PM	#27
Nori Wentworth Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada Posts: 217	E-mail away!

January 10th, 2003, 06:46 PM	#29
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	HAhahahaa! That had one of the funniest shots I've seen on a web video. "Go you crazy Jew!" Looked like an XL1 lens hood he dropped. The rest of it was well edited, shot OK. I didn't get the concept at first, and then because of camera angles, didn't get an idea of the stunts they were doing. Probably because I'm not familliar with the "sport". Cool though.