Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-A1 and HDR-HC Series

Sony HVR-A1 and HDR-HC Series
Sony's latest single-CMOS additions to their HDV camcorder line.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 29th, 2005, 03:05 PM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shibuya, Tokyo
Posts: 1,381
Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1

I hope my plan works on July 7th. Not for sure tho. But I will try.
You won't be seeing the same green bike anymore. Just got stolen last night.

Now I can provide you folks with better choices of video formats since FCP5 is here.
Kaku Ito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 04:10 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: US & THEM
Posts: 827
Wow - you had a bike stolen in Tokyo?


its probably outside Shinjuku station :)
__________________
John Jay

Beware ***PLUGGER-BYTES***
John Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2005, 08:44 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shibuya, Tokyo
Posts: 1,381
Hi John Jay,

No, it happened in Shibuya.
Kaku Ito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 11:43 AM   #4
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23
Great! I'm waiting impatiently for your review/comparison. :)

Regards
Michal Laskowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 12:27 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 40
Did Sony use a rolling shutter in the HC1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
I hope my plan works on July 7th. Not for sure tho. But I will try.
You won't be seeing the same green bike anymore. Just got stolen last night.

Now I can provide you folks with better choices of video formats since FCP5 is here.

A danged shame with the bike theft. Hopefully you can film an event for someone and earn enough money to replace it with a nice upgrade!

From page 87 of the HC1 manual, it says "subjects passing by the frame might appear crooked". This suggests that the CMOS sensor is using a rolling shutter rathar than a global shutter. If true, it would mean that Sony is getting more light sensitivity out of the available die space on the sensor by not having an extra shielded sensor area dedicated for a virtual shutter. The drawback is that objects in rapid horizontal motion show up tilted. The faster their CMOS readout speed can be, the less tilted it will be overall, but still it would be present. This same effect, much more pronounced, can be seen with cheap webcams when there is horizontal motion in the scene. In that scenario you can clearly see the scanning effect being used by the sensor.

Anyway, if you have time Kaku, I'd love to see an .M2T of an outdoor scene with the camera set to a high shutter speed, and something blocky (like a large truck) driving by rapidly. Or rapid panning on a scene with strong vertical lines. Examining field by field (cutting each frame into their individual fields) should show what appears to be a slanted edge. If the object is moving rapidly to the right, it should look like it slants slightly to the left!

Even if you don't have time for this specific test, I'm still very eager to check out the M2Ts you'll be creating. And thank you very, VERY much for your willingness to share them.

-Lorin
HDV Forever!
Lorin Thwaits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2005, 12:34 PM   #6
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Kaku, we've hosted your FX1 clips before and we'll be happy to do it again for your HC1 clips. Just let me know when you're ready and I'll give you the access info for uploading. Looking forward to it!
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2005, 09:10 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 375
Kaku, you're amazing

Kaku, again I'll say that you've done AMAZING work on our behalf in North America - last summer you were invaluable helping me choose GS400 and then HDR-FX1... can't wait for your info!

Mark in Toronto
Mark Kubat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 07:06 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,761
Kaku

I've noticed that the Aperture on the HC1 goes from F1.8-2.1 which is hardly anything compared to the F1.6-F11 of the FX1. This would indicate that the performance of the sensor might be so good as to not require much stepping down in Bright light. But also an advantage, even though you won't get large DOF, the effect of AE (and manual adjustment) on DOF will be reduced, and mostly effect gain (once shutter is locked). Along with locking down shutter speed, this gives a much better control of look of the video. Something well worth testing against the FX1.

Re-edit: I should add, not enough control to shoot cinema quality, of course, only doco etc.

Here are some other things that might be worth testing out:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47018
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47019
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47020
Wayne Morellini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 10:48 AM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shibuya, Tokyo
Posts: 1,381
You guys are so great

You people are so great and on top of things on what I should be doing and since what we (me and my company) can learn from it is so great, we decided to purchase to cam for testing (we can probably sell it right away).

With the help of Pro Video Station Shinjuku, I will be able to receive the cam on 6th, which is this Wednesday.
Kaku Ito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 11:32 AM   #10
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Great -- glad to hear it, Kaku! Let me know when you're ready to upload some clips,
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 11:37 AM   #11
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini
I've noticed that the Aperture on the HC1 goes from F1.8-2.1 which is hardly anything compared to the F1.6-F11 of the FX1.
Er... Wayne... hold on there just a moment.

When you see f/1.8 to f/2.1 on the HC1, that's not the full aperture range of the lens by any means. It's simply the maximum apertures at each end of the zoom range. The maximum aperture at full wide is f/1.8. The maximum aperture at full telephoto is f/2.1. I couldn't readily find what the minimum aperture setting is before the iris closes, but most likely it's going to be f/11. Hope this helps,
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 12:55 PM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shibuya, Tokyo
Posts: 1,381
Okay, Chris and others that gave me testing suggestions.

Let's build the most valuable consumer report (opinion) here!!
I'm very concern about how Sony is skipping on cultural value with music and video lately, so I want them to be aware that the consumer expectation on media quality is higher than what they think. At the same time, they develop and manufacture good technology, too, so I want them to be better in taking good care of media culture. Our study and conclusions will greatly influence Sony.
Kaku Ito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2005, 01:51 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 40
Glad to see your enthusiasm!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
...consumer expectation on media quality is higher than what they think.
I think you're right. I hope Sony takes note of how interested we are in the details. Quality is very important to us. We're definitely happy to learn from all the tests you're preparing for.

Based on a few .M2Ts that were released to the Internet this morning from another site, it looks like the SteadyShot feature will occasionally stretch frames vertically to try to compensate for motion. Not a very good solution to stabilize the image! Ends up with a slightly "pulsating" image, and also limits a little the effectiveness of the MPEG2 compression. But that's really my only gripe with the footage. I'm hoping that this type of single-frame stretching of the image can be avoided by turning the SteadyShot off.

By the way, I'll be flying into Okinawa prefecture on Sunday, with a four-hour layover in Narita. If you know of a good place near either Narita or in Naha to buy an HC1 for around 160,000 yen, I'd be interested. Do you know if any of these three shops are reputable? They sure have great pricing.

http://www.tantan.co.jp/detail/HDR-HC1 - 151,400

http://www.tokado.jp/gekiyasu/video_body.htm#MARK1 - 158,300

http://www.bidders.co.jp/pitem/50723344 - 155,757

Thanks!

-Lorin
Lorin Thwaits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2005, 01:38 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shibuya, Tokyo
Posts: 1,381
Lorin,

Four-hour layover is not much to do since Narita is far from Tokyo.

You should make arrangement now with people in Okinawa that you can see in person to preorder for you with one of these company, or the shop I'm buying from. I can make sure that they help you.

Last edited by Kaku Ito; July 5th, 2005 at 05:59 AM.
Kaku Ito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2005, 02:00 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Perth WA Australia
Posts: 124
Kaku

Are camera's cheap to buy in Japan ?I will be over there in September and was wondering what it costs for an XL2 or the new JVC GY-HD101E .Also are PAL versions available? Joe
Joe Barker is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-A1 and HDR-HC Series

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:58 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network