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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 13th, 2009, 01:46 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham View Post
Dave, we are going to need to start a friendly betting circle ;) .......... My money is on this never happening. Too small a gap.
Well, it's the speculating that makes it such fun!! :-)

When the EX3 came out, the gap that I thought too small was between it and the EX1. It was only logical that a higher end shouldermount SxS camera had to come - the question was whether it would be 1/2" or 2/3", 35 or 50Mbs, and other such details. Well, now we know. (Towards the higher end, though I'm surprised it's 2/3" chips, but no 50Mbs.)

But as things stand at present, there seems a much smaller gap between the EX1 and EX3 than between the EX3 and the PMW350 - especially with the recent big upgrades to the EX1. Hence my speculation on an upgraded EX3/cut down 350 to sit more like halfway between the EX1 andthe 350.

I agree with Alistair. Current users of the DSR450 etc will want the PMW350 because of the chip size (and not worry too much about the price). But others may feel that too much to pay, yet want something a bit more than an EX1, (or even an EX3) especially ergonomically.
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Incidentally, I'm missing beer. It's time you passed through this way again :)
Maybe mid-December!? Are you likely to be at the Sony event in London on the 25th-26th?
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Old November 13th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #62
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Not for me it didn't. I filmed a concert last summer at Evergreen Lake uninterrupted. I only had two cards to work with, but I was able to keep the footage rolling because I didn't have to stop to change tapes. All I needed was a laptop pc for offloading one card while continuing to record on the other. I was working in the dark as well, outdoors even on just laptop battery, but not fumbling. In the end, it solved more problems than it introduced.
As soon as you get into a laptop what's the point of swapping cards when you could simply capture directly to the laptop? If that's the case then any camera can do that. I'm not saying the laptop isn't an option but you can't deny all the baggage that comes with it: the cost, the reliability, the extra weight and room to pack, the battery lasting, the noise, the light from the monitor bothering audience members, etc. Never had a computer crash on you or a file transfer go bad? Since you're writing over the cards that means you have no backup. I don't find it appealing trading up to a more expensive camera so I can take more risks of having a disaster. I find 1h 23m tapes are sufficient to last until intermission and durable/reliable.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 10:34 PM   #63
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Pete, we used a Canon XH-A1 as a b-cam, so we were shooting on tape and solid state media. I had no problems or concerns with either workflow.

It's really okay to just say you don't want to upgrade to a more expensive camera and leave it at that, but obsessing over unlikely potential complications isn't going to change anyones mind. I already know the workflow is simple and convenient, and so does everyone who uses the camera.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 04:27 AM   #64
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I'll be at the Sony event on the 25th/26th of November, if anyone want's a guided tour of any of the EX cams I'll be only too glad to help.

I don't think there will be anything in between the EX3 and PMW-350. I think the 350 is going to steal a big chunk of PDW-700 business as it is, a further, cheaper shoulder mount EX would eat into that business still further and dilute the whole product range to the point where each model would only sell in small numbers making them more expensive. There has never been a camera between the Z1/Z5/Z7 class cameras and S270, again there is a significant price difference between these cameras, even though the S270 is still only 1/3". There is the HDV 1000 shoulder mount camera but that's just big box with HC1 sensor and deck, dressed up to look like a big camera and completely lacking any manual controls.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 06:45 AM   #65
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I think the 350 is going to steal a big chunk of PDW-700 business
I agree as I was all set to purchase a PDW-700 just before Sony announced the PMW-350. Now I am going to get the latter. My decision was based on the total cost of the cam and media choice as I havenít got an optical disc workflow in place (so thatís an additional cost, I wonít have to fork out). Also the owning a nanoflash I believe the quality out of the PMW-350 will be unparalleled for the total cost.

As for something being between the PMW-EX3 and the PMW-350 I donít see any reason for it. The PMW-EX3 is a great compact inter-changeable lens camera (hope that never changes) while the PMW-350 looks a great full shoulder mounted cam. What could you put between these two?
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Old November 14th, 2009, 07:05 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I don't think there will be anything in between the EX3 and PMW-350.
Ah, but that's not what I was speculating about. What I was wondering about is something between the EX1 (not the EX3) and the PMW-350, REPLACING the EX3, as well as effectively the 1/2" XDCAM disc cameras.

It just seems odd (very odd) to me that Sony have upgraded the EX1 in some very desirable ways, but not done the same to the EX3. I would have anticipated an upgraded EX3 in due course - but you've ruled that out. Hence, what about not upgrading the EX3, but discontinuing it, and bringing out a new model, roughly along the lines I suggest?

Otherwise, potential EX3 purchasers will look at the EX1R and think "why can't I have the xxx mode, as on the (cheaper) EX1R"?

Such a camera would then be a direct competitor to Panasonics HPX300, but with 1/2" chips.

I stress this is purely speculation/thinking aloud on my part, solely based on the reasoning above.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 07:09 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
Pete, we used a Canon XH-A1 as a b-cam, so we were shooting on tape and solid state media. I had no problems or concerns with either workflow.

It's really okay to just say you don't want to upgrade to a more expensive camera and leave it at that, but obsessing over unlikely potential complications isn't going to change anyones mind. I already know the workflow is simple and convenient, and so does everyone who uses the camera.
I respectfully disagree with you that relying on your ability to off load video to laptop while you're filming a performance in complete darkness isn't a distraction and doesn't add risk. I know ppl who film without a backup camera and they've never had a problem so their process must be good too. You're free to downplay the risk and added hassle but that doesn't diminish the validity of my opinion. I'll leave it at that.

Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; November 14th, 2009 at 08:36 AM.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 08:09 AM   #68
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It just seems odd (very odd) to me that Sony have upgraded the EX1 in some very desirable ways, but not done the same to the EX3. I would have anticipated an upgraded EX3 in due course - but you've ruled that out. Hence, what about not upgrading the EX3, but discontinuing it, and bringing out a new model, roughly along the lines I suggest?

Otherwise, potential EX3 purchasers will look at the EX1R and think "why can't I have the xxx mode, as on the (cheaper) EX1R"?
Well upgrading the EX-3 so soon would upset current users IMO. I believe the EX-3 will get a revamp in 12 to 18 months time. As for choosing an EX-1R or EX-3 is probably determined by whether you need interchangable lenses or not? Just as it was before.

The EX-1R doesn't have anything that an EX-3 user couldn't live without! Nice features yes. I suppose the far red problem is the only thing that would really make a difference I suppose. Then again the Tiffen T1 1R fixes that, if you can get hold of one that is!
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Old November 14th, 2009, 09:12 AM   #69
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The EX-1R doesn't have anything that an EX-3 user couldn't live without! Nice features yes.
I can't remember the full list offhand, but three features which particularly struck me about the upgrade were native SD recording, cache-record, and "copy all clips" from card to card mode. They may or may not be applicable or useful to any given user, but if I was getting an EX3 now, and could see they (and others) were available on a cheaper camera, I'd not be impressed.

As for "why an EX3 over an EX1R", then apart from interchangeable lenses, my reason for wanting it would be genlocking and timecode synchronisation abilities.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 02:29 PM   #70
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Sony used to have the DSR300 series of cameras. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something similar, or maybe the F350/F330 is already filling that slot? Possibly an PMW330 or PMW300 with 1/2" sensors and everything else as per the PMW350.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #71
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I would speculate that it may be possible to add cache record to the EX3 and copy all clips via a firmware update, maybe even allowing one of the assignable buttons to be used for one touch S&Q on/off.

Maybe David is right, perhaps the EX3 will get replaced in the future, but I doubt it would be a traditional shoulder mount camera.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 06:12 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I would speculate that it may be possible to add cache record to the EX3 and copy all clips via a firmware update, maybe even allowing one of the assignable buttons to be used for one touch S&Q on/off.
huh? My old EX3 already has a button that turns S&Q on and off - and it allows me to dial in the frame rate instantly without going back to menus.

I'd love to see the cache record, and although I have no knowledge of how clip copy is implemented now, I would think that "copy all" would be an easy thing to add to the EX3.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 06:39 PM   #73
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Pure speculation and hoping...that Sony is thinking about a paid firmware/board upgrade for the EX3 to bring the EX-1R functionality into it. One could only hope.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 01:35 AM   #74
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On press of the button on the EX1R goes directly to the S&Q mode that you have preset in the menu. Press it again and it returns to your preferred standard frame rate. Sure you don't have to go in to the menu, but you still have to fiddle about dialing in the rates you want.

I don't think it will be possible to add the SD codec to an EX3 (or EX1). The EX1R is slightly wider at the rear, in part to accommodate the HDMI connector but also to make space inside for the DV codec.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #75
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Alister, do you know if the the PDW-F335 and F350 will be discontinued or that Sony keeps them on the market? I don't see a realistic future for these camcorders with the release of the PMW-350. They seem not to have many benefits but the disc-based workflow.
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