FS5 or FS7: please advise

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

I realize you don't have my budget, but I think maybe this helps illustrate what the different cams are good at.
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Hi Olof!

Thanks for your elaborated and exhaustive response (as usual), but the paragraph I quoted above is - sadly - the most important statement that makes your broad and of course the most sensible approach rather impossible for me to adopt :(

Cheers

Piotr

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I think you have to ask yourself if a fs7 is a camera that you need or want, remember that the body is only a small part of the cost because the fun starts when you start to invest in lenses, you mentioned to maybe start with a cheap lens but that is a waste of money, lenses are the best investment you can make (if you buy the expensive ones) and they can last you a lifetime and hold their resale value much better compared to camera's

I think for your type of shooting you would be better of with a dvx200 alike camera, much cheaper then a fs5 or fs7 (if you include the lens cost as well) and it's a complete camera that can do 50fps at 4K and has a much larger sensor then your ex1.

Hello again, Noa!

As to good lenses being the most future prove investment in the video industry/business, you're absolutely right. Olof's' examples on Vimeo shows that using even very old, but high quality vintage still glass (which I do have from my EX1+Letus times) can be a temporary solution for me for many problems - like if I bought the FS7K, after all, and found the kit lens not wide enough for a particular task - I can always put my 16mm F2.8 Canon FD prime, and the resolution would suffer only moderately (btw, I have a nice collection of these lenses, so I hope this plus the FS7 kit lense would bring me through the initial period of climbing the FS7 learning curve - when I have saved enough cash again, I could invest in more "serious" glass again). But this non-nonsense plan means the highest initial expenditure for me, so I'll repeat one of my OP questions again:

- if I bought the FS7 with SELP18105G lens instead of the more expensive FS7K kit lens, how bad would the barrel/pincushion distortion be (that the camera cannot compensate for)? I'd be grateful to anybody kind enough for posting a still showing it, for me to decide whether or not I could live with it (I have asked for this favor in one of my previous conversations with Doug, but to no avail).

As to the DVX200: it looks like a perfect camera on paper, with the price tag in between the X70 and the FS5; sadly my arms-neck partial disability makes handling the EX1 with add-ons it requires difficult if not impossible - the Panasonic is even heavier, and also requires a shoulder mount for me to be used... Also, I went through all 274 pages of the other forum thread about it, and it doesn't seem to perform quite as the specs on paper would suggest. Sure - most shortcomings seem to be the teething problems, and the early adopters' problems with setting the DVX200 up properly (as Barry Green patiently keeps pointing out) - but still, it looks to large and heavy for me being handicapped like this (and the message from my doctors is I will never be better, at my 61 years of age and after 2 unsuccessful surgeries on my neck spine).

Thanks anyway for your suggestions

Piotr

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

I have read Doug's writings for years, never have been in a place to need his classes, but with the FS5 I really was looking forward to buying his class. Glad I held off. After reading the things he said in the other thread, I've decided to put those funds elsewhere.

What can I say? Hate flames...

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

Whatever you do, good luck. I'd love to see some photos of you in action.

Thanks mate;

Piotr

[Ray Lee]

I have the FS7 and bought the FS5 for a back up and when I wanted a tiny camera... For what I shoot I am really questioning if I need the FS7 enough to keep it. I think the FS7 is absolutely the better value and a more well rounded camera but the FS5 is small and light enough that it puts it in a much better place regarding support equipment size, weight and cost

FS7 I needed my heavy Kessler Cine slider, a larger tripod system Vinten pozi lock legs legs and heavy 100mm head, if I wanted a gimbal for it I rented the regular Ronin, not a fan of vari ND so I used my matte box when possible .... and always use the larger more secure van

FS5 I am using the Varavon Slidcam EX plus 1000, Vinten vision blue and some small carbon single tube legs, Ronin M and even added a cheap $200 DLSR jib from eBay that would never ever work with my FS7. The jib and slider are cheap enough if they go missing or only live a couple years its not the end of the world this easily fits in the car

I missed the DSLR revolution shooting ENG cameras but I think I get it now, its really been liberating not being tied down to the big and costly support gear that goes along with the other cameras. When the day comes I need a better more robust codec I can always use a recorder or take advantage of the future RAW output and deal with the large set up when its needed.

[Marcus Durham]

The FS5 and stock lens are so light it works just fine on my Vinten Pro-Touch 5. Although I expect it would hit issues with a heavier lens.

[Brian Mills]

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

I have read Doug's writings for years, never have been in a place to need his classes, but with the FS5 I really was looking forward to buying his class. Glad I held off. After reading the things he said in the other thread, I've decided to put those funds elsewhere.

I don't know why Doug's character is being called into question, and I don't know the man, but I bought the class for the EX3 years ago and again paid for the class for the FS7 and I can say they are incredible, well researched, extremely thorough and highly prepared tutorials that will save you HOURS of learning by trial and error and could save you trouble on the set of a paying client.

Every time I have posted a question directly to Doug he has taken time and answered me on a thread, and the value of that advice and experience cannot be underestimated. Looking at this thread I see no problem with his response to Piotr.

I am sorry to hear of Piotr's difficulties, but he cannot expect someone to answer a question as broad as "which camera do I need for my personal, unique situation." Doug's advice to fully research both cameras/lenses and possibly rent and try them out beforehand is an appropriate one.

[Mike Watson]

I don't know if I could be any more clear, you actually quoted it in your reply, but if you read the other thread where he makes light of someone's neurological condition, that's pretty much what turned me off. As I said in my initial reply, I don't doubt his camera knowledge at all.

[Dave Sperling]

Plus the fact that Doug has posted for free in another thread on this forum the initial section of his FS5 course -- in which he outlines some of the major differences between the FS5 and FS7. I know that when I compare the features (and what my clients require - such as ECS capability) the FS7 was the proper choice.
I hope everyone reading this thread has watched Doug's video!

[Jack Zhang]

Wait, the FS5 has no ECS? For LED stage lighting with variable brightness this is crucial.

[Dave Sperling]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

Wait, the FS5 has no ECS? For LED stage lighting with variable brightness this is crucial.

We actually have very few issues with LED stage lighting frequencies. However the video walls used for dynamic sets in many of the Broadway shows do sometimes require tweaking the shutter speed slightly. Not to mention the random computer or equipment screen scan that's running at a strange rate in corporate or product shot situations... Again, look at (free) chapter 1 of Doug's FS5 video...

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

I don't know if I could be any more clear, you actually quoted it in your reply, but if you read the other thread where he makes light of someone's neurological condition, that's pretty much what turned me off. As I said in my initial reply, I don't doubt his camera knowledge at all.

Please believe me - if I reacted to Doug's dismissive answer to my own questions in this thread was really because it happened right after his disrespectfully treating Jack's condition in another thread. Being handicapped myself, I strongly sympathize with Jack; Doug knows about my disability as well so his impolite treating two persons like Jack and myself in a row, one just after the other, has really been too much to keep my mouth shut. I'm 61 years old, always respect people and expect the same from them.

Also, I didn't expect Doug to "to answer a question as broad as "which camera do I need for my personal, unique situation.", as Brian put it. What I expected was a couple of opinions from people actually using both (or any of the two) cameras to help me look at them from a more real perspective; interestingly it was Jack who was the first to provide me with a short but valuable answer (well - people who suffer usually have more empathy to other sufferers). Also, Olof who also is one of our gurus here, did find the time and patience for a very exhaustive answer.

Finally, I'm far from questioning Doug's profound knowledge of cameras; I never bought any of his tutorials an never will, but after having watched bot FS5 and FS7 introductory chapters on Vimeo I appreciate his technical knowledge. However, there are other gurus like Alister with similar knowledge who share it free - just as I do frequently with my profound knowledge of plastics injection molding computer simulation and optimization, which happens to be my main profession. I never dismiss a person even if he/she asks the most naive questions...

But as I stated in my last answer to Doug: I don't have any bad feelings (it's just the way I am), so please everybody - let's close this dispute and leave it in PEACE.

Piotr

[Jack Zhang]

He just once again upstaged one of my answers passive aggressively and I'm not going to stand for that anymore.

Edit: Wow, he reported the post. My point that there are no moving parts that can break down is very valid. Yet he has this "vendetta" to just prove me wrong at everything I post.

I even explicitly stated I've fallen on hard times and I get reported...

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Hi Olof!

Thanks for your elaborated and exhaustive response (as usual), but the paragraph I quoted above is - sadly - the most important statement that makes your broad and of course the most sensible approach rather impossible for me to adopt :(

Cheers

Piotr

One more question to those actually using the FS7 (I'm almost decided to get this puppy - although my question would be valid with FS5 as well):

I'm trying to sell parts of my old equipment I used with my EX1, and hesitate whether such low-res pieces like the two below would possibly have any usage with 4K on super 35mm camera:

- my Marshall 7" field monitor (only 800x480); perhaps good for framing control only when shooting on tripod? Keep it or sell it for whaever it's worth?

- my Zacuto Z-Finder EVF Pro 3x (complete) - with its low-res 800x480, shall I keep it at all (interestingly, even with the Gratical out for some time, it's still $1,000 on Zacuto site)?

TIA for advance

Piotr

[Dave Sperling]

Keeping or selling old monitoring gear depends a lot on your working style.

In my case, I've re-purposed my Zacuto EVF as a client monitor. Sounds strange?? -- Perhaps, but when shooting b-roll and running around on bright, sunny days I can hand the EVF to the field producer or client and they can watch as I shoot -- without me having to listen to them complain about the field monitor being hard to see in the sun.

The EVF is also great because it's light to carry around (I stopped letting producers/clients carry 7" monitors long ago - they drop easily) -- of course I keep the magnifying eyepiece gaffer-taped on to avoid it getting brushed off. And of course a neck strap is also a good idea,,,

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Good idea, Dave!

So as a focusing aid it's definitely not enough for 4K, and the original FS7 monitor is better for this purpose...

Piotr

PS. Please forgive my naive questions - I never even had a 4K camera in m hands :)