3 channel 36 bit 1280 X 720 low $ camera - Viper?

Oscar Spierenburg · March 7th, 2006, 06:08 PM

Are there still people around who are considering to suggest a group discount on the Elphel 333 camera?
The thing I like about the camera is that it is in constant development.
The Belgian guy (who is actually British) who owns the camera says that the software has been improved much the last year. He can now edit avi files in windows...something that wasn't possible before. It also has auto exposure & white balance now.

The liveCD thing (the software that comes with the camera) as I understand it, is a bootable OS that runs right from the CD. So you can just as well have windows installed on the computer.

Forrest Schultz · March 7th, 2006, 07:18 PM

Oscar, could you find if it is possible to record using windows as an OS, well to run the camera's operating system software? is this information correct. to use windows with the liveCD ?

Carl Jakobsson · March 7th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

Now I was wondering.. using a 35mm adapter washes out a lot of detail in the out of focus area's because of the short Depth of Field. Wouldn't that be an advantage?

I think that's a general truth, I've noticed that when compressing video footage (doesn't matter if the target is mjpeg or MPEG1/MPEG2 using i-frames), you need a higher bitrate than you need on footage from film. This is because of "less detail" in areas that are out of focus.

Oscar Spierenburg · March 8th, 2006, 05:15 AM

Forrest,
The liveCD is an OS by itself running from the CD. So it just boots from the CD in stead of windows. Is that what you mean or do you really want to use windows for a recording OS for some reason?
The guy I'm talking to says:
<<<The video is stored as a avi which you can edit in something like Vegas if you have a Mjpeg codec (I use the morgan one). >>>

Forrest Schultz · March 8th, 2006, 09:26 AM

no, you got it Oscar, thats what i meant. i was just making sure you could run the live CD on windows, and not have to use a linux system. i wonder if the software on live CD allows us to make the avi files originally or do we have to modify the software to do that? thanks.

Oscar Spierenburg · March 8th, 2006, 11:24 AM

Forrest, if it needs to be modified, it has been done already and all software and updates are shared for free I guess, because it's an open source project.

Forrest Schultz · March 9th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Thanks Oscar. I figured it has been updated. Well i forgot to ask about this a while back, but didnt think about it at the time. How does this camera use a shutter? does it even have one? and if so, is it adjustable so that we can make it do say, 1/48th second or 1/200 sec and so on? thanks. is the shutter the same thing as the exposure speed on this camera or not? thanks.

Oscar Spierenburg · March 10th, 2006, 08:09 AM

Forrest, I'm not really sure, but maybe you or someone can interpret the specs of the sensor http://www.micron.com/products/imagi...s/MT9T001.html

Would Global pixel reset mean that it uses a variant of a global shutter? Anyway it's not a mechanical shutter.

About the shutter settings, you can look at the live camera controls on this page (it's the 313 model, but I guess the controls are about the same.)

I'm planning on buying a 333. I'm not going to try and get a discount, because I'm not a programmer. Unless it's a group discount and we share our setups and findings here or on the Elphel forum. Maybe it's worth a shot?

Forrest Schultz · March 11th, 2006, 04:44 AM

and you can also look here.
http://download.micron.com/pdf/datas...01_3100_DS.pdf
this is the data sheet of the sensor. on page 43 it talks about its "global shutter" and also states it can be combined with a mechanical shutter. But does it need a mechanical shutter? becuase it also mentions "bulb mode" exposure also. im lost in all the technical things of it. And building a mechanical shutter for this could be pretty hard i would think.

Wayne Morellini · March 11th, 2006, 09:33 AM

Look in Obin's thread, he used a sensor with this global reset, I don't remember what it is, but resetting the pixels globally should help cut down the rolling shutter.

Forrest Schultz · March 17th, 2006, 04:14 PM

alright, to summarize, i am getting an Elphel Camera shipped to me, it will arive monday afternoon. I will build a spinning adapter for it and possibly an optical viewfinder between the adapter and the Elphel camera. i would appreciate any help and advice or findings, and i will continue to post my progress on making this into a cinema camera. i should probally start a new thread. let me know what you guys think

Daniel Rudd · March 18th, 2006, 09:28 AM

Go Forest,
Go Forest,
Go Go,
Go Forest

(sorry, went to a basketball game last night. I'll be eagerly watching your progress). Have you built an adapter before?

Forrest Schultz · March 18th, 2006, 09:52 AM

thanks! yes, i have built a static adapter and have redone it about 3 times. it was based off of the Aldu35 design. and i made a 1000 grit gg with alumin oxide. but i dont think that 1000 grit has very good diffusion. but ive also prepared to make a spinning gg for this camera. and Wayne Kinney taught a very good method to increase light transmission by rubbing vaseline over 200 grit surface and then wiping it off. it creates a wet look and when you use it, you barely lose perhaps about .5 of an f stop. perhaps a little less. so i am going to do that.
And i'll basically use the mediachance dof adapter as the basics for mine. Except, right behind the gg and condenser, im going to put a 45 degree angled glass facing to the left. connected over to a mirror that will face up. This will be incorporated into a homemade optical viewfinder. the condenser i use will be a perfect 35mm by 24mm frame size (which i have) so i can easily see the edge of the frame from looking trhough the viewfinder. Thank you very much, and when it comes, ill try to get video as soon as i can.

Wayne Morellini · March 19th, 2006, 12:24 AM

Forrest, which Codec are you planning on using?

Maybe you can ask him if he has one of the Ibis5a test sensor boards hanging around (the 2/3rd inch 5a has a some nifty features over the Micron).

Forrest Schultz · March 19th, 2006, 02:24 AM

Wayne, will that sensor be compatiable with Andrey's model design? That would be cool if it would be as simple as resoldering some pins, but im no expert beyond that. i was planning to record ogg format files and then convert them to avi. or if its possible, just record avi files directly. thanks

March 8th, 2006, 11:24 AM	#336
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Forrest, if it needs to be modified, it has been done already and all software and updates are shared for free I guess, because it's an open source project. Last edited by Oscar Spierenburg; March 8th, 2006 at 12:13 PM.

March 18th, 2006, 09:28 AM	#342
Daniel Rudd Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Muskegon, MI Posts: 213	Go Forest, Go Forest, Go Go, Go Forest (sorry, went to a basketball game last night. I'll be eagerly watching your progress). Have you built an adapter before? __________________ Daniel Rudd Digital Storyteller (Sony HDV, Aspect HD) Soundtrack Creation & Royalty Free Music Production www.stock20.com

March 7th, 2006, 06:08 PM	#331
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Are there still people around who are considering to suggest a group discount on the Elphel 333 camera? The thing I like about the camera is that it is in constant development. The Belgian guy (who is actually British) who owns the camera says that the software has been improved much the last year. He can now edit avi files in windows...something that wasn't possible before. It also has auto exposure & white balance now. The liveCD thing (the software that comes with the camera) as I understand it, is a bootable OS that runs right from the CD. So you can just as well have windows installed on the computer.

March 7th, 2006, 07:18 PM	#332
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Oscar, could you find if it is possible to record using windows as an OS, well to run the camera's operating system software? is this information correct. to use windows with the liveCD ?

March 8th, 2006, 05:15 AM	#334
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Forrest, The liveCD is an OS by itself running from the CD. So it just boots from the CD in stead of windows. Is that what you mean or do you really want to use windows for a recording OS for some reason? The guy I'm talking to says: <<<The video is stored as a avi which you can edit in something like Vegas if you have a Mjpeg codec (I use the morgan one). >>>

March 8th, 2006, 09:26 AM	#335
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	no, you got it Oscar, thats what i meant. i was just making sure you could run the live CD on windows, and not have to use a linux system. i wonder if the software on live CD allows us to make the avi files originally or do we have to modify the software to do that? thanks.

March 9th, 2006, 04:17 PM	#337
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Thanks Oscar. I figured it has been updated. Well i forgot to ask about this a while back, but didnt think about it at the time. How does this camera use a shutter? does it even have one? and if so, is it adjustable so that we can make it do say, 1/48th second or 1/200 sec and so on? thanks. is the shutter the same thing as the exposure speed on this camera or not? thanks.

March 10th, 2006, 08:09 AM	#338
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Forrest, I'm not really sure, but maybe you or someone can interpret the specs of the sensor http://www.micron.com/products/imagi...s/MT9T001.html Would Global pixel reset mean that it uses a variant of a global shutter? Anyway it's not a mechanical shutter. About the shutter settings, you can look at the live camera controls on this page (it's the 313 model, but I guess the controls are about the same.) I'm planning on buying a 333. I'm not going to try and get a discount, because I'm not a programmer. Unless it's a group discount and we share our setups and findings here or on the Elphel forum. Maybe it's worth a shot?

March 11th, 2006, 04:44 AM	#339
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	and you can also look here. http://download.micron.com/pdf/datas...01_3100_DS.pdf this is the data sheet of the sensor. on page 43 it talks about its "global shutter" and also states it can be combined with a mechanical shutter. But does it need a mechanical shutter? becuase it also mentions "bulb mode" exposure also. im lost in all the technical things of it. And building a mechanical shutter for this could be pretty hard i would think.

March 11th, 2006, 09:33 AM	#340
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Look in Obin's thread, he used a sensor with this global reset, I don't remember what it is, but resetting the pixels globally should help cut down the rolling shutter.

March 17th, 2006, 04:14 PM	#341
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	alright, to summarize, i am getting an Elphel Camera shipped to me, it will arive monday afternoon. I will build a spinning adapter for it and possibly an optical viewfinder between the adapter and the Elphel camera. i would appreciate any help and advice or findings, and i will continue to post my progress on making this into a cinema camera. i should probally start a new thread. let me know what you guys think

March 18th, 2006, 09:52 AM	#343
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	thanks! yes, i have built a static adapter and have redone it about 3 times. it was based off of the Aldu35 design. and i made a 1000 grit gg with alumin oxide. but i dont think that 1000 grit has very good diffusion. but ive also prepared to make a spinning gg for this camera. and Wayne Kinney taught a very good method to increase light transmission by rubbing vaseline over 200 grit surface and then wiping it off. it creates a wet look and when you use it, you barely lose perhaps about .5 of an f stop. perhaps a little less. so i am going to do that. And i'll basically use the mediachance dof adapter as the basics for mine. Except, right behind the gg and condenser, im going to put a 45 degree angled glass facing to the left. connected over to a mirror that will face up. This will be incorporated into a homemade optical viewfinder. the condenser i use will be a perfect 35mm by 24mm frame size (which i have) so i can easily see the edge of the frame from looking trhough the viewfinder. Thank you very much, and when it comes, ill try to get video as soon as i can.

March 19th, 2006, 12:24 AM	#344
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Forrest, which Codec are you planning on using? Maybe you can ask him if he has one of the Ibis5a test sensor boards hanging around (the 2/3rd inch 5a has a some nifty features over the Micron).

March 19th, 2006, 02:24 AM	#345
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Wayne, will that sensor be compatiable with Andrey's model design? That would be cool if it would be as simple as resoldering some pins, but im no expert beyond that. i was planning to record ogg format files and then convert them to avi. or if its possible, just record avi files directly. thanks