I feel a little guilty as my EX1 serial 40XXXXX delivered in the UK last week seems to be ok. It does prove that Sony can get it right. I have now shot B-Roll pictures for intercutting with HDCAM and it looks good. I have a timeline with HDV,EX1,and HDCAM all ingested via HD-SDI. I am pleased the way the formats mix together. Will try and work out how to post a sequence for viewing over the coming week.

The only downside of the EX1 so far is the constant fear that the flimsy on/off/playback switch will pack up at any second and that the plastic retainer straps on the A/V / USB cover will not last long, the HD-SDI BNC socket cover has long gone awol.

What I found out during my tests today:

- Zoom in with ND off - aperture wide open at f1.9 - focus near infinity mark - zoom out - image is o.k. and sharp (did not test this before without ND)

- Zoom in with ND ON - aperture wide open at f1.9 - focus near infinity mark -zoom out - image is extremely blurry

- Zoom in with ND ON - aperture set to f5.6 or higher - focus near infinity mark -zoom out - image is o.k.

It looks like that the ND filter is the only cause for the blurriness?? I bet my camera is not the only with this issue - you can easily try for yourself... Looking through some older footage I shot with my original camera, I guess it might have the same problem (I did not do this zoom test during the 2 days I had it before I sent it back to Sony for repair.)
I´ve retried the suggestion to improve the infinity focus by fully rolling it all the way back to 0.8 - and guess what - to the contrary what I said yesterday - it works! So whenever I want to shoot a wide landscape with ND-filter ON I have to manually set the focus to 0.8 instead of the traditional method of zooming in, focusing and zooming out. So if I want to shoot a zoom from something far away and end in a wide shot, I have to pull the focus during the zoom!! How sick is that? Thats a phenomenon I just cant explain.
The vignetting issue is also visible in real world situations - like when filming a blue sky - so no need to shoot another living room wall ;-)

Sorry for my ramblings and thanks for letting me vent ;-)

cu,
Gerald

Thanks for your feedback, Gerald. Now that I think about it, the ND-2 filter was always engaged when the tracking issue was apparent (bright exteriors). I never thought to test without. That could explain why Sony repair, or anyone besides you and me, have been unable to reproduce the problem. As I said before, the new unit is much improved in this regard, but due to the critical nature of focus with HD, I'm relying more on expanded focus in these instances rather than zoom in/focus/zoom out to frame shot. Not ideal.

Thanks for your feedback, Gerald. Now that I think about it, the ND-2 filter was always engaged when the tracking issue was apparent (bright exteriors). I never thought to test without. That could explain why Sony repair, or anyone besides you and me, have been unable to reproduce the problem. As I said before, the new unit is much improved in this regard, but due to the critical nature of focus with HD, I'm relying more on expanded focus in these instances rather than zoom in/focus/zoom out to frame shot. Not ideal.

I do too rely on expanded focus rather than zoom in / zoom out. This is a must do when working with the macro mode ON, as you will lose the macro if you zoom too far (40mm).

Of course I´m using expanded focus as well (I could not live without it) - but also fully zooming in on the subject which is of course useless with this lens issue ;-)

I called Sony professional tech support number where they are taking calls about the EX-1. I addressed the issue with the vignetting and backfocus issue and they said that the problem was only in the first batch and all serial numbers above 110,000 are not defective which cant be true. I told them some of your horror stories and even told them to come and take a look at close to 38 pages worth just on the vignetting issue. He assured me that the problem was fixed. If i'm not mistaken, there are people with serial number in the 200,000+ range with this issue.

Dennis, I don't think the serial numbers are sequential like that. The first digit seems to be some sort of region or series code and the rest of the digits are the actual serial number.

For example 200,001 was built before 110,000.

1xxxxx seems to be for the US cameras and it could be that after 10,000 they got it fixed. I am not sure that I've seen any complaints from anyone with the last 5 digits over 10,000. Anyone?

Dennis, I don't think the serial numbers are sequential like that. The first digit seems to be some sort of region or series code and the rest of the digits are the actual serial number.

For example 200,001 was built before 110,000.

1xxxxx seems to be for the US cameras and it could be that after 10,000 they got it fixed. I am not sure that I've seen any complaints from anyone with the last 5 digits over 10,000. Anyone?


I agree with you but thats what he said and I was confused. Also, I dont think I have heard of anyone with the last 5 digits being over 3,000. I may be wrong

Are you sure about the 6-digit numbers? Mine is 0400653 (7 digits); do you mean that Sony says anything above 0,110,000 is OK (or should it read 1,100,000?)

If it's the former, it's simply not true. If the latter, than how many did they sell already?!!

Are you sure about the 6-digit numbers? Mine is 0400653 (7 digits); do you mean that Sony says anything above 0,110,000 is OK (or should it read 1,100,000?)

If it's the former, it's simply not true. If the latter, than how many did they sell already?!!

Very confusing indeed. I think you guys should start calling Sony directly and lettign them know of this issue because the more they are aware the more they will do something. Here is the number to get in touch with the department that is handeling this situation> 1-800-883-6817 and then press 252
. They will be able to give you more answers

I'm furious at the moment so probably shouldn't post right now but I have to vent some steam.

Sony are basically saying that although they can see the problem in my example footage they could not replicate it when testing my camera so will not do anything further until I can provide evidence that a problem exists!

What other evidence can I provide?

I feel like I'm being treated as a liar now, man I really thought dealing with Sony was going to be different to this.

Paul.

I'm furious at the moment so probably shouldn't post right now but I have to vent some steam.

Sony are basically saying that although they can see the problem in my example footage they could not replicate it when testing my camera so will not do anything further until I can provide evidence that a problem exists!

What other evidence can I provide?

I feel like I'm being treated as a liar now, man I really thought dealing with Sony was going to be different to this.

Paul.

It's funny because when I told the guy over at Sony that people are still having issues with vignetting with the newer serial numbers his response was "No they're not".

I spoke to Phil Myers Paul and he says can you go to Basingstoke to replicate the problem with their engineers present as they are stumped. I know it's a long way...

maybe their new policy is: "if we cant fix it, we just deny that there is a problem" ?
Paul, your situation makes me furious as well, knowing my camera is still at their repair shop and there is a huge probability that it will be returned with even more problems then before...

Crappy customer service!!!

Paul, have you spoken to Phil Myers?

Yes, it's Phil who just let me know.

I spoke to Phil Myers Paul and he says can you go to Basingstoke to replicate the problem with their engineers present as they are stumped. I know it's a long way...

Edit:
I don't like to air private emails on forums so I have removed this response.

I think I'll take a chill pill and deal with this later. Sorry for venting.

This may seem a silly suggestion but can you take the 'unit of unmerchantable quality' route and get a new camera?

To the West Coasters,

Been devouring this thread and there still seems to be issues with the vignette, backfocus, and ND. And just recently, Phil Bloom talked to his Sony rep in the UK and their engineers are willing to have a camera owner come in and demonstrate some of the problems their having with the EX1, which the engineers can't seem to replicate in the shop.

So, Phil Bloom has some Sony clout obviously - he's earned it as well. Maybe his rep knows someone at Sony San Jose,CA that will allow someone here the same courtesy. You could demonstrate the issues with vignette, the backfocus, the ND, etc...

I know SW airlines offers roundtrips routinely from major SW Cities from $79 and $99 airfares. That and a rental car... seems like a small investment when there's $7000 already on the line. Probably get your camera fixed and the information hopefully will get back to Sony Japan.

Lonnie

Piotr,
If Eric's serial number theory is correct, he's stating your in Region 4, and yours is the 653 camera out of that batch.

Does anyone here have a unit from North america with the last 5 digits over 5,000. B&H currently has units that are allready at 6,000+.

I thought I could post a screenshot how terrible the focus problem on my loaner camera is.

The first picture was done with ND1 ON at f1,9. I zoomed in, focused near the infinity mark and zoomed out:

The second picture:
the same procedure and settings as above but when at wide, I turned the focus to the 0,8 meter stop.

I´ve got some feedback from other EX1 owners from a german forum who have the exactly same problem! I´m still shocked that Sony would deliver such bad cameras.

I'm not sure I understand...

Do you mean you are not focused when you are set "near infinity" ?
Do you have the ND1 on your 2nd shoot ?

Please, give more detail so I can have a try tomorrow.
My feelings are (from last week-end shooting of Bird Of Prey) you can't rely on zoming in, focus, zoom out at your desired frame. Like if the focus ring was not linear accurate with the zoom.

The strange thing is you don't have a focus point anywhere on picture 1...

Sebastien,
I´m perfectly focused when I zoom in and the focus is near "infinity". What I wanted to say is that I´m not fully at the infinity stop of the lens when the picture is sharp, but thats normal.
ND is ON at both pictures, the only difference on the second picture is that I turned the focus to the 0,8 meter stop, which can´t be correct...

If you want to check your camera:

ND On (you can use ND1 or ND2)
Aperture set to f1,9
zoom in and focus on something very far away
zoom out and check your picture - if its still sharp you are lucky!

If its out of focus - turn the focus to 0,8 meter and check if it is sharp now.

There is no excuse if the lens does not work correctly. The camera is unusable if this does not work as it should. Even the cheapest cameras work correctly. For me this is an absolutely basic function for any camera lens, how else could one get a perfect on spot focus, and the funny thing is that it works with the ND OFF so one should be able to rely on the zoom in/zoom out method.
My original camera was shipped from Sony support today and I should have it back by monday - hopefully its really fixed and does not have this problem as well. I could live with a slight vignette but not with the backfocus issue.

Gerald, let us know how it works out.

From speaking with Sony and other vendors they are pretty much guaranteeing that the backfocus and vignetting issue is done with. Anyone who purchases an EX from here on out is 99% safe according to the feedback i'm getting.

my camera arrived at my dealer only 3 weeks ago...
does Sony officially recognize the backfocus problem?

my camera arrived at my dealer only 3 weeks ago...
does Sony officially recognize the backfocus problem?

Good question. When I was asking them about the issues at hand I bundled the problems together so I would say "Vignetting and backfocus" instead of just focusing on 1. But from my understanding the backfocus issue is not really a big problem since you can adjust it yourself with the focus chart? I heard that it was happening because of camera movement during delivery. Correct me if I'm wrong. Plus the units being sold now are at serial number 6,000! I have not seen anyone here with a s/n over 2,000.

good idea!
The first thing I did when my camera arrived, was to check for vignetting...
After all I´ve seen, I would not buy this camera again... I hope this attitude will change, should I ever get my hands on a perfect working EX1.
More on monday when mine is back from repair.

good idea!
The first thing I did when my camera arrived, was to check for vignetting...
After all I´ve seen, I would not buy this camera again... I hope this attitude will change, should I ever get my hands on a perfect working EX1.
More on monday when mine is back from repair.

I dont understand why they dont just replace yours and send you one from the new stock t hat is supposidly "perfect"

Good question. When I was asking them about the issues at hand I bundled the problems together so I would say "Vignetting and backfocus" instead of just focusing on 1. But from my understanding the backfocus issue is not really a big problem since you can adjust it yourself with the focus chart? I heard that it was happening because of camera movement during delivery. Correct me if I'm wrong. Plus the units being sold now are at serial number 6,000! I have not seen anyone here with a s/n over 2,000.
You can do a backfocus adjustment with the focus chart, but it does not change anything regarding the ND1&2 filters, its a different issue as the backfocus is spot on without the ND. So it is a huge problem ;-)
I did the backfocus adjustment procedure with ND on and ND off but it did not solve my problem. Mine had a serial number above 4,000.

You can do a backfocus adjustment with the focus chart, but it does not change anything regarding the ND1&2 filters, its a different issue as the backfocus is spot on without the ND. So it is a huge problem ;-)
I did the backfocus adjustment procedure with ND on and ND off but it did not solve my problem. Mine had a serial number above 4,000.

The serial number scheme is different here in North America I believe. So if you were to summarize the issue with the ND filter what would it be exaclty so I can call up Sony and see what they are doing about it.

I dont understand why they dont just replace yours and send you one from the new stock t hat is supposidly "perfect"

That´s what I will ask them on Monday if mine is not returned perfect! They were not very helpful on the phone so far and Sony support for Europe is located in France - about 1.400 km from me - so bringing it in and showing them the problem is not an option ;-)

The serial number scheme is different here in North America I believe. So if you were to summarize the issue with the ND filter what would it be exaclty so I can call up Sony and see what they are doing about it.

with ND on and aperture wide open, you can´t zoom in, focus to a far away spot, zoom out and get a clear picture (see my screenshots). Wide shots with ND on are only in focus if you turn the focus to 0,8 meters - so you have to shoot landscapes for example with focus set to 0.8 meters. Without ND it works perfectly as it should.

I must have gotten lucky. I haven't experienced any of the problems that so many have had on this thread and my camera was bought in January. I do see a tiny vignette in some of my footage, but nothing that's noticeable and it seems to be only at certain zoom lengths. I've been trying to get my camera to show the problems I hear about on this forum, but beyond the small vignette in the upper left hand corner at some zoom lengths, it's fine.

Hopefully Sony will honor the warranties longer then 90 days, because cameras with focus and vignette problems are lemons.

with ND on and aperture wide open, you can´t zoom in, focus to a far away spot, zoom out and get a clear picture (see my screenshots). Wide shots with ND on are only in focus if you turn the focus to 0,8 meters - so you have to shoot landscapes for example with focus set to 0.8 meters. Without ND it works perfectly as it should.


hmm I think I may have to address this issue. Is it just a few people who are having this problem or a good number?

hmm I think I may have to address this issue. Is it just a few people who are having this problem or a good number?

I know about 12 people who have posted this problem so far, and I guess there are many more who did not post about it or did not even notice.

I must have gotten lucky. I haven't experienced any of the problems that so many have had on this thread and my camera was bought in January. I do see a tiny vignette in some of my footage, but nothing that's noticeable and it seems to be only at certain zoom lengths. I've been trying to get my camera to show the problems I hear about on this forum, but beyond the small vignette in the upper left hand corner at some zoom lengths, it's fine.

Hopefully Sony will honor the warranties longer then 90 days, because cameras with focus and vignette problems are lemons.

Dustin,
when reading your description you do have the typical vignetting issue if you allready notice it in your footage. Its only there at certain zoom lengths - thats the typical symptom. Most of us only have it in certain corners. There are cameras out there which do not show any vignetting at all - and there shouldn´t be any. So I would not say that yours is problem free... ;-)

Dustin,
when reading your description you do have the typical vignetting issue if you allready notice it in your footage. Its only there at certain zoom lengths - thats the typical symptom. Most of us only have it in certain corners. There are cameras out there which do not show any vignetting at all - and there shouldn´t be any. So I would not say that yours is problem free... ;-)

You're correct, it is a problem. But when I look at frame grabs people have shown on here mine is a lot less noticeable. You really have to look to see it and then it's just barely there. I'm not happy that it's there, but it's not a huge deal breaker for me.

I'm taking it to the Grand Canyon on a tech scout all this week. So, I'll have plenty of time to really work the camera out. If it's visible at all I should be able to see it and exaggerate the vignette in the very bright canyon scenery.

my camera came back from service yesterday. The vignette is gone - but it still has a back focus problem with ND on...

Gerald, did you read, what the German guys have done here:
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=3812&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=56
In the Service menu you find the option "auto fb adjust". But maybe you loose your warranty by using this option.

Florian,
did they fix your backfocus issue?

Hi Florian,
I´ve tried this procedure about 20 times with some success.
I think I could fix it by 90%, but there is still a difference between ND and no ND. I did a splitscreen video and can clearly see the difference between the filters. It´s much better than before but still not acceptable for me.

thanks,
Gerald

Florian,
did they fix your backfocus issue?


They fixed it, yes. I made a detailed test with a technician. But I need some further tests and some work with the cam for a few days so I can really say, its all o.k. No time for the moment, will last til April, my first real docu-shot with the ex 1 will just start in May. So im not pressed for time.

BTW: I love this machine, the workflow, the pictures, the possibilities, great advance for my work.

How can an ND filter effect back focus?

Putting any filter in the optical path behind the lens will affect back focus because the glass has a different refraction index from the air that it replaces. It will make the lens focus farther back by about 1/3 the thickness of the glass (if I remember correctly). That's a huge distance when speaking of the tolerances of back focus on a 1/2" chip.

That said, I don't know exactly why it affects the EX1. Cameras usually have a clear "comp" filter that goes in the place of the ND so that the light travels through the same amount of glass in all filter settings. Even the EX1 reads "ND: Clear" on the LCD display when you switch the ND filtering to "Off."

My theory, as stated earlier in this thread, is that the EX1 has no clear filter inside but instead relies on a servo driven compensation for the absent ND filter and that in some cameras, this compensation is incorrectly calibrated or not working for whatever reason.

Just a theory but I can't think of another reason why back focus would change with the filter settings. Unless the internal filters themselves are the wrong thickness or something bizarre like that?

The only way a zero power, planar piece of glass could affect focal point is if the glass was mounted at a angle relative to the mean light path. I doubt that Sony is building powered ND filters.

Bill - not true.

Glass (versus no glass) will extend the back focus. The rays will still converge at the same angle when exiting the glass as when entering (because the faces of the glass are parallel), but they adopt a shallower angle when "inside" the glass, thereby extending (or pushing backward) the back focus.

This shallower angle inside the glass makes the effect equal to about 1/3 the thickness of the glass.

Eric,
You are right if the incoming light rays are convergent. What I said is true when the incoming rays are collimated. Do you think Fujinon optical engineers are dumb enough to put the ND filters in a convergent beam? This would really be rather unwise. I'm not being argumentative, I really want to know. If they really DID do this, they'd be forced into having a powered optic, which would drive cost unrealisitically, and complicate alignment requirements.

Perhaps, since the ND filters come with the camera body, and the lens is an add-on, they incoming rays are, indeed, convergent. Holy jeez!! What a thought.

Bill,

I would doubt that there is the luxury of a collimated beam anywhere in that lens in which to insert an ND. I am assuming that the filters are behind the optics (as is the case in interchangeable lens cameras and gel filtration on film cameras) and hence in a converging beam. There's no need for there to be a powered optic as long as its application is consistent with all filters (or compensated for) and accounted for in the design. In fact, the automatic back focus adjustment (which is purportedly LUT based) would take care of it automatically.

Anyway, there is no way I can conceive of for a filter to affect the backfocus unless it's doing what we see in that illustration. Don't you agree?

Would be nice to know what's going on inside that lens rather than speculating. The answers lie in the palms of our hands if we are willing to dissect our cameras to find out!

Eric...yes, I quite agree. A clear piece of glass in place of an ND filter would be a cheap solution.
LOL...I'm not brave enough to try disassembly of my EX1.

You are all forgetting this problem only effects one particula camera so it is not a design issue. My guess is that one of the ND filters has come loose. Definately a return to SONY and then let us all know what is happening.