With details off I would expect the image to be more soft when you zoom out. I'm assuming you guys are testing with details on?

I did the test with both settings, and both are soft...

I will check but I believe detail was on and set to 0

Sony wants me to email them stills showing the focus problem.

Chuck

even with detail off there should not be any difference with ND on or off at the backfocus

I don't know if anyone has asked this question or if it makes sense but has anyone tried "peaking" when zooming out during ND 1 and ND 2?

Would it still show peaking even if it was out of focus or would it go off?

One interesting new development concerns the iris. After shooting all afternoon in manual, I powered the camera up to find the iris would not move, as if auto-iris had taken control. OK, must have bumped it. Nope. Everything was still set to manual, but it would not budge. Re-set power again and all was well. I'm willing to chalk it up to user error somehow, but this was not the first time it has happened.

Bill, just so you know, it wasn't operator error on your part because the exact same thing happened to me a while back. I thought I had pushed the magic button by mistake (auto-everything) but this was not the case. The camera had a death grip on the iris and wasn't about to relinquish control until I powered it off and then on again.

So now we know we're not BOTH going crazy and that it has to be a software thing that hopefully will be addressed in a future firmware upgrade.

- Don

ps - actually, I'm still crazy but you're ok :)

My EX-1 (Serial #103707) just finally put up on the big 1080p screen was OK as far as vignetting, but displayed egregious problems with backfocus. No matter how set (Clear, ND 1 or 2), and focused sharply while zoomed out at about 85 feet, when pulled back to wide just turned the tree limbs at 85 feet to total MUSH. I fooled myself into thinking it was ok when viewed on the Sony's LCD screen, and the peaking indicated that everything was in focus. Don't be fooled: examine it as a normally large image!

I contacted Max today at B&H about the faulty unit, and B&H is taking it back and will have a replacement on my doorstep tomorrow, all at their expense, coming and going. What service!

This is the first new camera from Sony that I have had ANY difficulty with since 1991. Given the experience with many of you here, I decided not to attempt the Auto FB or to even look to see what software version was installed. And certainly at this point, I wasn't ready to send the camera back to Sony for an attempted repair, again given the adverse experience of so many of you.

If the camera arriving tomorrow also appears faulty, I won't burden B&H again. They have certainly done more than their part! At that point I'll try the Auto FB, and if that fails, contact Sony, and go back to the FX-1 (boo-hoo) for the duration.

What a shame, with an otherwise largely stunning camera. And thanks to you all for your informative posts, plus, minus, and instructional.

The only remaining issue, one way or the other, will be attempting to straighten out the issue of the original carton I'm sending back to B&H, which unfortunately has the serial number info cut out - I had already sent in a claim for the "free" battery, quite mistakenly expecting that having ordered a later delivered unit, that it would be in acceptable operating condition.

Funny you mention that William, I had already registered with them for the free sxs card when I decided to exchange my first one.


-Sean

So Sean, were you able to effect the camera exchange with the box serial number cut off? And as far as you know, what does this do to your "free" card?

Bill, just so you know, it wasn't operator error on your part because the exact same thing happened to me a while back. I thought I had pushed the magic button by mistake (auto-everything) but this was not the case. The camera had a death grip on the iris and wasn't about to relinquish control until I powered it off and then on again.

I've had that issue myself for a couple of times... And it is not the camera going to Auto Iris mode, because it won't react to changes in illumination, it just gets "stuck". I think it was after powering up the camera, the iris goes from the Close position to where it was when powering down, but after that, instead of releasing the power to the iris motor drive, it remains activated and doesn't move neither towards the open nor the close positions.

I've had that issue myself for a couple of times... And it is not the camera going to Auto Iris mode, because it won't react to changes in illumination, it just gets "stuck". I think it was after powering up the camera, the iris goes from the Close position to where it was when powering down, but after that, instead of releasing the power to the iris motor drive, it remains activated and doesn't move neither towards the open nor the close positions.

I also had this stuck iri twice. A stop/start of the camera did the trick.
But what is the point with the vignetting issue ? :)

I actually stopped just short of slicing the box and thought "Hey, I better check for vignetting before I do this". Did you already mail in the UPC? If so, I'd say call B&H and explain, then call Sony. I have to call them today and sort it out, but I'm sure Sony can send it back to them with a new UPC.

-Sean

Well, now I don't need to be concerned about sending my first EX-1 (from which I had cut the serial number to obtain the "free" 8 Gb card) back to B&H (referred to two posts above, just prior to Sean's kind reply).

I received the replacement EX-1 from B&H today, put it through its paces, and it is also mush regarding backfocus, at Clear, ND-1, and ND-2. So the replacement, rather than the orignal is going back to B&H. The serial number of the latest was 104003. The software version on both the old and new was V1.03-0351.

Again, B&H certainly tops out on customer service! Since I have a shoot coming up in NYC in early May, I may try the FB adjustment and see if that does any good in each of the 3 ND settings, and if not, call Sony immediately for a software update and adequate repair. Thanks to you all for the tremendous and learned amount of information about this camera!

I also had this stuck iri twice. A stop/start of the camera did the trick.
But what is the point with the vignetting issue ? :)

You're right, it has nothing to do with vignetting... but backfocus issues are also non related to vignetting! I though that it was not the wrong place, since all three issues are related to the lens of the camera.

Maybe this thread should change his title from "Vignette problem" to "Lens problems".

Well, now I don't need to be concerned about sending my first EX-1 (from which I had cut the serial number to obtain the "free" 8 Gb card) back to B&H (referred to two posts above, just prior to Sean's kind reply).

I received the replacement EX-1 from B&H today, put it through its paces, and it is also mush regarding backfocus, at Clear, ND-1, and ND-2. So the replacement, rather than the orignal is going back to B&H. The serial number of the latest was 104003. The software version on both the old and new was V1.03-0351.

Again, B&H certainly tops out on customer service! Since I have a shoot coming up in NYC in early May, I may try the FB adjustment and see if that does any good in each of the 3 ND settings, and if not, call Sony immediately for a software update and adequate repair. Thanks to you all for the tremendous and learned amount of information about this camera!

That's weird. My s/n is 4700 and I got the new FW number.

Well the sony tech says based on my pics he is not sure there is a problem with my ex1! Please take a look and see if I just need new glasses.

Here are the links to the tifs
http://www.shadysidepa.com/nd_off_wide.tif
http://www.shadysidepa.com/ND_1_on_wide.tif
http://www.shadysidepa.com/ND_2_wide.tif


He gave me an 800 number I called and they say I will have to pay shipping to send it in. Have they done the same for you?

Chuck

Chuck,
its pretty obvious that your camera has a problem. Thats the typical backfocus problem. No new glasses needed ;-)

regards,
Gerald

Guys tell me, it's obviously soft - but where is it's focal point now, at min. dist. or nowhere? It looks like someone smeared a thin film of vasoline on the lens...

Well the sony tech says based on my pics he is not sure there is a problem with my ex1! Please take a look and see if I just need new glasses.

Here are the links to the tifs
http://www.shadysidepa.com/nd_off_wide.tif
http://www.shadysidepa.com/ND_1_on_wide.tif
http://www.shadysidepa.com/ND_2_wide.tif


He gave me an 800 number I called and they say I will have to pay shipping to send it in. Have they done the same for you?

Chuck

Back focus is out.
Do you have the latest firmware?
It's been shared to several that this firmware is needed to adjust the problem.
The image contrast is different, but it's still soft.

Just recieved a message from Sony tech reports that the latest firmware update does NOT solve any backfocus issues that he is aware of but that they will recalibrate the lens after performing the update..

"To my knowledge the firmware update doesn't address your issue per se
but it may still be a good course of action. After updating the firmware
they will also re-calibrate the lens. "

Guess it will be a crap shoot but something has to be done.

I will send it out and see how it comes back.

Chuck

Chuck,
its pretty obvious that your camera has a problem. Thats the typical backfocus problem. No new glasses needed ;-)

regards,
Gerald

Not knowing Chuck's settings, it _could_ be that engaging ND filters and opening the iris accordingly, narrowed his DOF enough for the scene to stay out of it (with the focus plane being very close, or in infinity).

Camera set up was as follows

iris wide open shutter used to stop down the light for non ND. Zoomed to center of tree trunk, focused and zoomed back wide with iris wide.

Then I switched in ND filters and changed shutter to a lower setting for
ND1 and then off for ND2.

Chuck

Ach, OK - so you basically didn't open iris while engaging ND. My theory is not valid - back focus is bad.

Chuck,
I have read several responses between this board and another mentioning that their back focus issue was fixed. So, if it's not the new firmware, it's something else.

According to Adam Wilt, the back focus adjustment in the service menu appears to only correct back focus at a given condition, ND OFF, ND1 ON, or ND2 ON. He mentioned it will only correct for one at a time.

Having said that, my camera does not have the BF issue regarding ND position. If it does, it's real small and not that noticeable.

Steven

I am wondering if only the cams that had the vignette issue also suffer from the backfocus problem. My cam was sent back in early Jan for that problem.

Chuck

Having said that, my camera does not have the BF issue regarding ND position. If it does, it's real small and not that noticeable.

I just completed the back focus adjustment myself because I'm not able to have Sony do it until the 2nd week in April. Thank goodness I only live 15 min. away from our western Sony repair facility!

The back focus adjustment seems to have worked. I did it without any ND filters then did another test outside using ND1 and the image does appear to still be a little softer than with ND Clear, but even with the ND filter it now seems to be better than it was before the adjustment.

- Don

Steven

I am wondering if only the cams that had the vignette issue also suffer from the backfocus problem. My cam was sent back in early Jan for that problem.

Chuck

Chuck, I'm not sure about that.
My current camera (replacement for my original EX1 camera) has some vignetting in the top two corners (8-25mm range). My back focus looks OK.

Maybe this thread should change his title from "Vignette problem" to "Lens problems".

Actually, this thread has been badly derailed by the backfocus problems and if anything they need to be posted elsewhere. A lot of people, myself included are still having vignette issues and it would be good to keep this thread for that problem alone if possible.

I saw this shot on CNN. Look at upper left and right corners. Vignette issue is more severe on upper left.

BTW I'm seeing this on some of the HD channels (Voom channels) from my Cable service.

Either there's another camera on the market with this issue or you can see who's using the EX1 and haven't gotten them repaired/replaced. It kinda makes you think how many are out there with this and other issues that simply go into service and NEVER get checked.

Good eye.

It's pretty much a perfect shot for seeing the vignetting problem.

I'm not sure CNN should be so proud of that exclusive - it's a pretty boring shot!

Today I got my camera back from the 3rd repair attempt. When I thoroughly checked it an hour ago I found out that it still has the same issue. Still soft with ND on AND ND off.
They reinstalled the new FW and did the backfocus adjustment routine. I spoke to the technician (who was not from prime support, but from Sony Austria) how he checked it - and he had to admit that he did not have an HD monitor, but he normally does not do any repairs on this camera, so I cant blame him...
All repairs are normally done by Prime Support only.
The sales representative from Sony Austria, who is a very professional, helpful, and friendly gentleman now tries to get a camera from the latest batch for me. If I did not know him, I would have asked for a refund now. I still can´t believe that there are perfect EX-1´s without backfocus problems out there. I hope to get the new camera next week - if it also has the same problem I will have to demand a refund.
Problem is: What camera should I buy instead - the EX1 would be such a great camera... Maybe I will just wait for a couple of months, put my money on the bank and see if they can deliver some working cameras then.

Gerald - I feel your pain.

But what I'm mentally wrangling is this:
With content being king, and more than 90% of the central viewing picture dropping jaws of would be onlookers, this camera is still pumping out an amazing picture. And if my competition is using it - the fact remains that layman (customers) are going to see a better vignetted/blurry EX1 image than a glitch free XLH1/XHA1 image...

Granted - at 7k, i want a camera with no problems. But, now I'm asking myself, should I get it before my competition does, and just learn to work around the camera's beta-release issues?

The ONLY reason I haven't taken the plunge is I live in Vegas and NAB is 2+ weeks away - and 7K is a lot for my budget, so I just want to make sure before I purchase a camera with known deficiencies, that Canon, Panasonic, nor Red is coming out with something just as good or better...

As agonizing as this is, this camera is still a milestone...

Lonnie

Today I fixed the backfocus problem for myself, just before I wanted to return my EX1 for another exchange.
I did the FB-adjustment procedure once again - but this time I used 12 backfocus charts side by side (actually 4 columns and 3 rows), which I attached to a white wall of my house.
I did the procedure for each ND - setting separately. Looks like only 1 backfocus chart was not enough to fix my problem. The camera was 3m away from the charts - aperture of course wide open.

Maybe this trick will work for others as well.
The sad thing is that Sony could not fix it in 3 repair attempts.
I hope it will stay like this now.

My camera has the new FW 1.05.

Maybe this technique will help others as well.

regards,
Gerald

Gerald,can you post some before and after pics,i want to compare them with my before and after pics where i used 1 chart for adjustment.

Thanks,Paul.

Paul, your result looks real sharp.

one shot was done a couple of weeks ago (the darker one) - second one 15 minutes ago with same settings. (light is very different though and its pretty hazy today)
Yours look sharp to me - I think you fixed it.

Here is a split screen image with ND off/ND1/ND2 after adjustment. Everything is in manual mode.
Focus is near infinity, f1,9 - shutter speed varies from 1/2000 to 1/50. Detail off.
It´s been a little too bright to match ND off correctly though:

Gerald,
That looks real sharp man!
You fixed it!

Dang, hmmmm... Maybe I should look closer at mine. Your wide shots may be even a tad sharper than mine. I'll need to check mine closer.

It's hard to believe that was with DETAIL OFF. This is the first camera i've seen in this price range still maintain so much detail with enhancement off.

Most, in this price range turn into mush.

yep - rechecked - I´ve really set "Detail off"

yep - rechecked - I´ve really set "Detail off"

Which brings up my next question. What camera mode (PP) did you have the camera set when performing the BF calibration?
Also, was detail off during the BF calibration?

PP - Standard Setting 1 with Detail OFF
HQ - 1080 25p

Thanks.
I might break down and try it.

Gerald, just to confirm, you ran the BF calibration (FB) three times, right?
ND OFF
ND1
ND2

What did you do between each calibration? Did you power cycle?

I hate to say it, but could you provide a step by step procedure on how you made this adjustment?

I realize there would be a disclaimer to try at your own risk.

o.k. try at your own risk. Thats how it worked for me for 2 cameras Sony could not fix - your experience could be different..

Camera was set to 1080 25p
PP1 with detail off
I used 12 focus charts (Siemens Star) - I think a few less would not make a difference... 4 columns 3 rows
Camera was 3 meters away from a white wall outside my house
Aperture always f1.9 fully open at stop (use shutter to adjust brightness)
Focus full manual
Zoom servo on
Macro set to off

Set to ND off - zoom in fully - use expanded focus and sharpen
Use the maintenance menu - choose backfocus adjustment (FB)

When finished - leave menu - do not turn the camera off
Turn on ND1 - adjust brightness with shutter
zoom in fully - use expanded focus and sharpen
Use the maintenance menu - choose backfocus adjustment (FB)

When finished - leave menu - do not turn the camera off
Turn on ND2 - adjust brightness with shutter
zoom in fully - use expanded focus and sharpen
Use the maintenance menu - choose backfocus adjustment (FB)

no need to turn off the camera in-between adjustments.

Good luck - its pretty easy to perform - I hope this will solve your backfocus problems as well.

Thanks Gerald. Actually my camera's BF seems OK. It may be a tad softer wide, but not much.

I'm going to really test it well before trying this calibration.

its pretty easy to perform - I hope this will solve your backfocus problems as well.

Solved mine:

http://www.mdma.tv/ex1/fb.html

A crate of virtual beer to you. Sincere thanks.

Matt, that's impressive - however can you kindly tell me what is your firmware version of the camera? Is it 1.02 or 1.03 or 1.05? Thanks

It's 1.03.

FWIW, SN 0401953 purchased in the UK in March 2008.

A big thank you Gerald for your patience.

I thought I had a perfect camera but then I had niggling feeling that the B/F was a little off. Have just carried your remedy with 12 charts just like Matt has done {even the patio doors were the same} . The result is I now have spot on backfocus.

I am glad that things are sorting out the EX1 is one hell of a camera.

{even the patio doors were the same}

LOL!

As an addendum to this, note that I did the check on Clear, ND1 and ND2 at 720p25. Having spent so much time setting the hi tech chart up, I thought I'd just check the 1080i50. From a bit further back.

Hmmm. I think I just messed up the chance to spot something important. I thought it was off, so I've just gone through every mode at all ND settings and performed a FB.

It may be rather more tedious than we thought - it may be safer to open a bottle of something and do ALL modes at ALL ND settings.

Or maybe it's just the equivalent of washing your car to make it rain.

Matt and others,
I am a little lost fellows - see if I'm following this all...

You are adjusting BF within each camera setup, and within each camera setup - each possible ND setting. Now after setting new BF adjustments - is the camera electronics automatically adjusting the BackFocus according to which ND setting and which camera mode you are in...
Or will you need to physically adjust backfocus everytime you make an adjustment to ND or camera mode or change the battery?

Thanks for clearing things up,
Lonnie

Have carried out the auto procedure on each setting, clear,ND1,ND2. All done without switching off camera. When camera is powered down and the powered up again it remembers the new settings.