1. I have some footage from an XL2 recording with 4 channel sound. I haven't found a way yet to capture this using vegas and present all 4 channels. Any ideas ? (Currently I use scenalyzer).

((Ive never used it, so id be lying if i tried to work through it.. personally if i need to record more than 2 channels, id be using a mp3 or minidisc recorder.. better quality, and none of this 12bit 32k garbage.. sorry but it sucks... ))

2. Is there a 'vegas' way to fast index tapes (in a similar way to scenalyzer) .
((Batch capture in advanced capture tools within vidcap.. why youd want to index a capture before the capture is beyond me.. but its there.. i usualy just hit capture tape and let Vidcap do the work.
I then save the capture file (not the media) to a different drive for safekeeping.. if a HDD fails, at least i can recapture as a batch capture and everything is as it was.. i also do this with the actual project in question.. Vegas also has a media offline option of recpaturing (using vegas references or by using the vidcap references.. but once in an edit, u wont need the vidcap references.. im babbling.. ))


3. Are all capture programs equal when capturing DV AVI files ?
In other words, is there an advantage to using Vegas to capture from a Codec point of view ?
((well vegas captures DV AVI and stills from tape.. thats about it..
codecs.. well for avi2, theres really not all that much difference when it comes to software based codecs, however for those codecs within a canopus system or a matrox system, codec utilisation is paramount for the realtime stuff..
I havent noticed much of a difference between matrox and canopus dv codecs <MPG codecs are a huge difference.. but thats another issue), but i have noticed SW based codecs can be slightly "cleaner" than HW based one.. it could just be me though...

1. I have some footage from an XL2 recording with 4 channel sound. I haven't found a way yet to capture this using vegas and present all 4 channels. Any ideas ? (Currently I use scenalyzer).

I believe that scenalyzer is the only way to capture all 4 channels. Vegas still doesn't offer this feature.


2. Is there a 'vegas' way to fast index tapes (in a similar way to scenalyzer) .

Nope. Once again, stick with scenalyzer.


3. Are all capture programs equal when capturing DV AVI files ? In other words, is there an advantage to using Vegas to capture from a Codec point of view ?

Capturing is really a misnomer. It should be called transferring as all you're doing is transferring digital data from one medium (tape) to another (hard drive). Codecs don't come into the picture until you do a render with effects. Emphasis on "with effects" because, if the clips are assembled as straight cuts on the timeline, no rendering is done, just transferring once again.

Mike

I agree on all counts. Scenalyzer is the way to go for 4-channel audio. Vegas Vidcap also doesn't have anything similar to the fast index. As for capturing, it doesn't even use a codec. The codec comes into play when you play back the footage and change the footage (i.e. add an effect and render) so you'll get the same quality whether you use Scenalzyer or Vegas Vidcap.

Hard to say exactly but it could be a bad firewire port on the camera. You seem to have ruled out the wire by testing on two other cameras. Did you try the GL2 again AFTER testing the other two?

Hello all,

Here are my questions.

#1 - Is there an option to determine how often autosave...autosaves?

#2 - I have my .veg files saved by name and number... ie: show001.veg
Is there a "shortcut" so that I can just hit, say, F12, and it will automatically save the .veg file as the next in the series?

#3...oops. OK, THREE questions. Is there an option to set the "fade offset" to a specific fade (angled, straight line) AND duration (say, 10 frames) at each cut?

Thanks for the assist.

sincerely,


ian

Thanks for all those comments.

in response to:


1. ((Ive never used it, so id be lying if i tried to work through it.. personally if i need to record more than 2 channels, id be using a mp3 or minidisc recorder.. better quality, and none of this 12bit 32k garbage.. sorry but it sucks... ))

2. ((Batch capture in advanced capture tools within vidcap.. why youd want to index a capture before the capture is beyond me.. but its there.. i usualy just hit capture tape and let Vidcap do the work.





Just to clarify, I used 4 ch sound on a wedding (front stereo mic for atmos & general) and a radio mic on Ch3). 12 bit 32Khz is perfectly fine for this. Let's face it, 32Khz sampling will easily reproduce 15Khz signals (nyquist), and with 4095 discrete volume sampling points, only the purist would be able to tell, especially when played back through a tele! Yes it's not as good as 48Khz 16-bit, but it depends on what you are capturing. For dialogue 32Khz is more than enough in most situations (in my opinion), obviously not for everyone.

As for indexing the tapes, I find it essential. Each tape is labelled with only a number reference. The indexing not only means I have a graphical list of clips, but also in-out points, whether it is 16:9, interlaced or progressive etc etc. My workflow is, take tape out of camera, lock it & index it. When I then come to edit I can glance through the index file, pick the clips that I need (or candidate clips) and only capture those onto the harddisk without having to capture & store all unwanted clips. Also for stock footage I can search a database of tapes and pick out the exact clip * timecodes etc. Most handy. I got fed up of continually playing tapes looking for a particular clip that I wanted. I just spent a day indexing the whole lot once (only takes 5 mins per tape). Job done, no more searching. Big time saver.

At least I know now the limitations of Vegas for both Audio & indexing and as the "capturing" doesn't introduce re-running through a codec, I will stick to Scenalyzer. (unless there's a better way!!)

Thanks all for your input.

#1 - Is there an option to determine how often autosave...autosaves?

Every 5 minutes


#2 - I have my .veg files saved by name and number... ie: show001.veg
Is there a "shortcut" so that I can just hit, say, F12, and it will automatically save the .veg file as the next in the series?

Excalibur (http://www.jetdv.com/excalibur) has the "Save Emergency VEG" tool which will save the project in multiple locations appending the date/time at the push of a button (just push that button instead of the standard save button). I believe the new version of Ultimate S may have a similar feature.


#3...oops. OK, THREE questions. Is there an option to set the "fade offset" to a specific fade (angled, straight line) AND duration (say, 10 frames) at each cut?

First of all, go to Options - Preferences - Editing tab and set the options there however you desire. You can also using scripting to adjust the lengths of fades and the types of fades.

Gents, living in PAL land, I need to make up DVD's for some folks in NTSC land.

Would Sorenson be a tool which can be used for this?

These are training DVD's and are meant for 4:3 viewing mostly.

Any other suggestions welcome.

Cheers

http://www.dvfilm.com/atlantis/

I have used this going from NTSC to PAL and was pleased. It's a small standalone program that can process batches in the background, works on Macs and PC's

http://www.nattress.com/standardsConversion.htm

People say good things about Graeme's package also (he's a member here), but it only works on the Mac with FCP.

Ok from my previous thread I learned that multi drives are possible and not a problum. Step 1. Now I have done some research about RAID setups from other threads but I am still left with the lingering question.

Which is preferable:

1 400gb hard drive

or

2 hard drives (possible 200/250) hooked up in a RAID 0.

My motherboard is an asus p4p800-e and has:

Promise 20378 raid controller for raid 1/0.

It seems cost wise I can get either 1 400 or 2 200s for about the same.

Also, when Im pricing hardives I see Ultra ATA and serial ATA which should I be looking for? Thanks!

Two drives or more. One for programs, (C drive) and one for video and Audio files. If you have three, then seperate for programs, video, and audio. No raid 0, unless you are very brave. Two 200 drives better than one. It is faster.

Mike

Thanks for the respoce. Sorry for stating this first. I have a drive im using for my c: now and want to add more space for video. were dumping documentary footage on and it is way way more then my 150 gb im using for vid now can handle.

So your saying that you would use two 200gb over one 400, and that you would NOT Raid 0 them? I will only be storing video on them and will have the logs and project files backed up, so worse comes to worse I could always online them again.

thanks!

if you are on a pc, be sure and evaluate procoder.

The 1 400GB hard drive is preferable. However, you may also want to consider rebate deals on hard drives. Some of them are pretty good. See hot deals sites for your country. You may not necessarily be able to grab a 400GB drive in a deal like that (although it would be preferable).

2- To make life simple for yourself, I wouldn't mess around with RAID 0. It's marginally faster at best (in some cases can be slower), and it does use your time setting it up. And it doubles your data loss. You're probably more productive not RAIDing.

3-
Also, when Im pricing hardives I see Ultra ATA and serial ATA which should I be looking for? Thanks!
Whichever you have hard drive controllers left for. The P4P800-e should have 3-4 PATA channels (so that's 6-8 PATA devices, including optical/CD/DVD drives) and 2 or more SATA controllers. Check the manual or website though.

SATA may need a specific power cable, which your PSU may not have. You may need an adapter.
a SATA drive also needs SATA cables- your motherboard should have come with one.

How do I render back to an m2t file in Vegas?


HDV file format?


thanks

The 1 400GB hard drive is preferable.

I am curious as to why you would say one 400 over two 200s. If he is obviously looking for a speed improvement as well as capacity, (asking about raid 0), then it would seem one for video and one for audio would be best, and what is reccommended by software manufactures.

Would like to know why you say one big drive? Is it just for more video room?

Thanks ahead of time----Mike

1. File > Render As...
2. Save as type: MainConcept MPEG-2 (*.mpg)
3. Template: HDV 1080-60i (for NTSC or 50i if you are PAL).

Ignore the fact that the filename has .mpg in the name. When it renders the filename will be changed to .m2t.

~jr

The DVD specification requires that you render to MPEG-2. Most DVD players also have a compatibility mode for MPEG-1 but the quality is much lower. (In fact it may even be part of the spec but you wouldn’t want to use it) WMV9 is not part of the DVD specification. (caveat: although some newer DVD players are beginning to support WMV, you would be hard pressed to find one so unless you own one, and you only make DVD’s for yourself that no one else can use, don’t even consider WMV)

In Vegas your should:

1. File > Render As...
2. Save as type: MainConcept MPEG-2 (*.mpg)
3. Template: DVD Architect NTSC video stream (for NTSC or PAL video stream if you are working in PAL).

That will render your video only. Then to render the audio choose:

1. File > Render As...
2. Save as type: Dolby Digital AC-3 (*.ac3)
3. Template: Stereo DVD (or 5.1 Surround DVD if your project has surround sound)

The reason you want to process these separately is to avoid your audio being compressed twice, once to MPEG and then to AC3.

You can automate this process by using the Batch Render script. Go into Tools > Scripting > Batch Render and select the same two options as above for video and audio. It will process one after the other.

Note: Keep you filenames the same e.g., MyProject.mpg and MyProject.ac3. Then when you drop them in DVD Architect, it will know that the AC3 file is for the MPG file and load them both. Otherwise you will have to manually assign the video and audio.

~jr

So I was editing a short a few weeks ago and it was my first time really pushing for the highest quality I could go for. I am curious, however, as to the improvement of working with uncompressed SD footage after it has been dumped to the hard drive. Here is what I did:

Tape (DV) > Hard Drive (DV) > 60i to 24p (DV) > edited at 24p (DV) and rendered as 24p uncompressed avi > CC and grading (uncompressed) > compressed back to DV for audio work.

Now, to my eye, the uncompressed CC and grading doesn't add any sort of "blocks" (assuming this is compression?) to the footage when doing the same with DV footage. The only thing is, how can this be if the footage originated as DV?

Can anyone tell me if I am just seeing things, or if this really makes a difference? The only drawback I see is the large file size, which is significant for me as I don't have unlimited storage.

Harlow, take a look at Vol 1 #7 of my newsletter where I discuss the entire DVD process including a bitrate chart so your rendered video can be the proper size to fit on the disc.

That's an awful lot of renders if you're wanting to keep the highest quality. Let's skip a few of those renders. How about if you start with your standard DV, edit in DV, and do the final render in DV? You're not gaining any quality by going to uncompressed since you're starting with DV.

I don't think it I was very clear there.

As far as reliability goes, I believe a single drive would be a little more reliable.
With 2 drives, you'll have more heat and that will slightly increase the chance of the upper drive failing (since heat rises).

As well, it could be that the contents of one drive is useless without the other (which would be implicit in RAID 0). So if one drive fails, all your data becomes useless. In this way you kind of double your risk of losing your data.

You could make an argument for 2 drives- cost and/or performance can be better (in most but not all cases).

2- I wouldn't split audio and video between drives. I would find that harder to manage, since your whole project isn't just in one folder.

3- I'm a fan of bigger hard drives because they are more future-proof. You can use them in your next system. If you have a bunch of small hard drives, that can be more expensive because each drive need room, power, cooling, and hard drive controllers.

4- Your best option may be to look for a rebate deal on a hard drive or two. This is the cheapest option, and will probably still be the cheapest even when you consider what I wrote for 3. 400GB rebate deals may not be that common. You should be able to find a deal on a 250/300GB drive.

In the US, some hot deals sites are:
gotapex.com
bensbargains.net
fatwallet.com
I would check out what people say in the forums, as you can usually get some good info there (i.e. what to do to make sure you get the rebate).
*I live in Canada, so I don't know how good those US sites are.

5- Performance isn't a big deal with DV. It could matter if you render intermediary files a lot (or render out files for 3rd party programs and you can't use Satish' frame server).

Hi all,


Looked through the keyboard preference window but couldn't find what I was looking for which is (if it exist of course) the shortcut to toggle between compositing mode . Having to drop down the list each and every time is WAY too time-consuming, my current project requires a lot of trial and error and such a shorcut would ease the pain .....so to speak :)

I am still running ver.5 by the way


Thanks

I am trying to do an educational video which employs the VH1 tv show "Pop Up Video" technique. For those of you who haven't seen the show, it basically was music videos that have "pop ups" that appear usually at the bottom of the screen giving more information/insight on the video. I have Vegas 5.0, and i have been trying to use the available text options to achieve some similar effects but it looks rather cheesy. Basically it just text overlay and not at all like well pop ups. Is there any possible hints on how i can achieve a more polished , natural pop up look. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

I don't know of a way to do what you are wanting. You *can* go through them with a script in Vegas 6.

Create the "popup" in your graphics program with an alpha channel. Then add that image to the project where needed and put text over the graphic.

Track 1: Text
Track 2: Graphic with Alpha channel
Track 3: Video

Hi Ed ,


Do you have that script on Jetdv forum , I looked but couldn't find it.

Thanks


Phil

PS: btw I meant "compositing" and not "composition" .... just wanted to clear things out . I edited it to avoid any misconception

Anyone know of the most accurate way to do this with 16x9 HDV footage in Vegas? Is there a plugin I can download?

This simple script should go through all the different modes and let you see each one. Find the one you like and switch it to that one. Assumptions:

1) the cursor is placed somewhere so you can see a proper frame
2) Track ONE is the parent track
3) We are adjusting the Parent Compositing mode

/**
* This script will go through the various composite modes.
*
* Written By: Edward Troxel
* Copyright 2004 - JETDV Scripts
* Modified: 08-08-2005
**/

import System;
import System.IO;
import System.Windows.Forms;
import Sony.Vegas;


try {
var track : Track = Vegas.Project.Tracks[0];

track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.SrcAlpha;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Source Alpha");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.SrcAlpha3D;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("3D source alpha");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Add;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Add");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Subtract;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Subtract");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Multiply;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Multiply");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Cut;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Cut");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Screen;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Screen");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Overlay;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Overlay");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.HardLight;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Hard light");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Dodge;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Dodge");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Burn;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Burn");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Darken;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Darken");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Lighten;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Lighten");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.Difference;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Difference");
track.ParentCompositeMode = CompositeMode.DifferenceSquared;
Vegas.UpdateUI();
MessageBox.Show("Difference Squared");

} catch (e) {
MessageBox.Show(e);
}

Just put a mask on the top track.

Which mask?

And how do I know whats the right size?

I was working on a Vegas project last night and renered the results overnight. When I woke up the render dialouge box was closed but the rendered file did not render any of the changes. Worse yet, all the changes from the timeline were miraculously missing. I was working with a restored.veg file and I did save it. But I can't find it anywhere.
What happend to my project?

Have you checked the sytem file where your restore files are saved? Sorry I don't have a quick answer, just starting at the top. I've heard many interesting Vegas issues and this sounds similar to some of the "restore" issues I've seen. Usually when the restore is done, I close Vegas and re-open my new save.

There should be a .bak file where your veg is. DUplicate that .bak file and cchange the extension to .veg

2- In the video preview window, there's a button thats a white+blue rectangle with a circle inside. Make sure it's not clicked/down.

Hi Ed ,


thank you very much for the script , I copied it in a simple notepad text file and save it as a JS file in the "script menu" directory .

When I try to run it in Vegas I get the following error :

********************
Compilation error on line 18:

Objects of type 'Sony.Vegas.Track' do not have such a member


System.ApplicationException: Failed to compile script: 'E:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas 5.0\Script Menu\compositing.js'
at Sony.Vegas.ScriptHost.RunScript()
********************


Since programming is not my cup of tea I will leave it to you :)

Thank you for your time

Phil

Or, you can crop it in pan/crop but don't stretch to fill output frame.

The script needs Vegas 6 (or better, Vegas 6.0b) in order to run. It won't work in Vegas 5.0x.

Hi Ed ,


I will keep it for when I upgrade then ;)

Thank you for your time.

Phil

And easy as can be, Vegas uses Photoshop format images, so a simple transparent multilayered image in Photoshop will show up as such in Vegas.

And for the little motions, the mini-animations, use the pan/crop. Like for sliding a picture in from the side or something.

Edward, I was interested in this myself. Is there any occasion after the video has been captured to DV that going to uncompressed would be a benefit?

I want to create text with a transparent background in After Effects and import into Vegas to be layered over a video track. Can I do this? If so (and for those who work in both programs), how does one export with transparent background in After Effects -- and how do I use that text in Vegas. That is, once I import into Vegas, is there any other step(s)?

Thanks!

James,

Why do it in AE, just do it in Vegas. See pages 246-247 in the Vegas User Manual and see if one of those effects isn't what you are looking for.

In AE, render to uncompressed AVI with Alpha Channel. Import that into Vegas. If the alpha channel is not working, right-click the event, choose Properties, and adjust the alpha channel settings.

Thanks patrick for the reply --

I can do more in after effects with text. Version 6.5 has some pretty cool text effects (not to mention plugs) and I'd like to use them in vegas...

Anyone?

If everything you're using is DV, none that I can think of.

O.K. So the short answer is to just minimize the number of renders. Maybe capture -> 24fps conversion -> colour correction, etc. -> final render...

Or would one do all of the colour correction and editing together, fades and all, then render with the 24fps conversion? If one wanted 24 frames.

But wait...wouldn't working in uncompressed mean you could render as many times as you wanted without degredation?

What kind of effects specifically? I'd like to see if there are ways to do them in Vegas. Just as a comparison.

Edward –

Thanks – you’ve been a great help yet again!

I was already exporting with the alpha channel (from AE), but I didn’t know that I had to adjust the event under its ‘properties.’ Success! ‘Premultiplied’ seems to look best for straight text – sound about right?

BTY -- have used your Excalibur plugin for business events editing and love it. Great plugin. I need to upgrade to the latest version though when I get a chance!

Thanks again --

Success! ‘Premultiplied’ seems to look best for straight text – sound about right?

Good to hear. Yes that sounds about right. Sometimes I get better results with Premultiplied Dirty, though.


BTW -- have used your Excalibur plugin for business events editing and love it. Great plugin. I need to upgrade to the latest version though when I get a chance!

Thanks.

Ok, here is a simpler question:

CCing with uncompressed footage will look no better then CCing with DV footage when both originated as DV anyway?