For those of you who are waiting for a more professional version of this camera, sounds like you may not have too long to wait.
Google "Sony: Our Most Compact XDCAM Camcorder Will Be Out This Year"

Sony: Our Most Compact XDCAM Camcorder Will Be Out This Year - HardwareZone.com.sg (http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-sony-our-most-compact-xdcam-camcorder-will-be-out-year)

http://www.hireacamera.com/blog/index.asp?post=sony-announces-compact-xdcam


Doesn't seem like it will have 4K.
Wondering if shooting in 4K with the AX100 and downressing is still a better option for final HD image quality.
Although, I'm sure this XDCAM version will have better image controls and no consumer-ish features.
I think the choice between the two will mostly come down to audio needs.

Looks like XDCAM version of the CX900 no 4K mentioned. So a small support cam for the X180 I think.

Ron Evans

Could Sony seriously leave 4K out of the picture??? That would seem to be dumb as dirt to make the "pro" camera out of the lower CX900 rather than the AX100...

I should hope that omission is just because they aren't mentioning the feature, rather than their omitting it!

Could Sony seriously leave 4K out of the picture??? That would seem to be dumb as dirt to make the "pro" camera out of the lower CX900 rather than the AX100...

I should hope that omission is just because they aren't mentioning the feature, rather than their omitting it!

Though AX100 4K is mind bending, the 10 bit 4.2.2 internal HD of this new camera would be my preference. Add 5 axis OIS (wishful thinking) and Creative Styles, and I'd order today.

Wouldn't be surprised if 4K is part of the final product though.

The only hope we'll see for 4K on this XDCAM variant of the AX100 is an XQD slot. If it's using SDXC, it may as well be 1080.

The new X180 replaces the NX5U and the PMW-160/150, I expect this new CX900Pro version will replace the NX30U and the PMW 100. We may wait a while for a small second camera for the FDR-AX1 and the PMW-Z100 to have 60P. This may need to wait for the next generation devices to process data without the fan. I expect it to have SXS slots with adapters just like the X180.

Ron Evans

Could Sony seriously leave 4K out of the picture??? That would seem to be dumb as dirt to make the "pro" camera out of the lower CX900 rather than the AX100...

I should hope that omission is just because they aren't mentioning the feature, rather than their omitting it!

I agree Dave, I can't believe they'd omit 4K at this point in time. I wonder if that mockup just isn't accurate.

Having used so many HD cameras and seeing the results of the AX100 down rez'd to HD, there's no way I'd go back to an HD only camera. The results are so much better with the 4K>HD work flow and gives you so many more options. You just can't get a pure HD camera that can do better, let alone as good.

And then, of course, you've got 4K!

Not every camera that comes out today "needs" to be 4K, this is a camera for event coverage or news gathering where you want the benefits of a small camera with a few pro features and that has good imagequality, it's a perfect b-camera to bigger professional camera's to capture footage on the go. It can be easily integrated into a existing workflow which might involve laptops for editing and a output to youtube or another streamingservice.

Ken, one of the reasons the downscale looks better is that it effectively becomes a 422 file compared to the original 420.These new cameras are already 10bit 422 and may very well give the same results.

Ron Evans

Have any of you very knowledgeable 4k shooters had a chance to objectively compare what the Lumix fz1000 will look like as compared to your current models , the ax100 in particular. I've been a Sony fan for many years and will continue because of the reliabilty factor for one thing
the fz1000 is in my budget range but I don't want inferior video so what's the deal? will lumix stand up to ax100?

A pro version of the AX100 is coming?
Slashcam News : Sony shows XDCAM Pro version of the FDR-AX100 (http://www.slashcam.com/news/single/Sony-shows-XDCAM-Pro-version-of-the-FDR-AX100-11462.html)

"This utility updates the system firmware and provides the following benefits:

•Adds Direct Copy for XAVC S format support •Adds the following auto focus performance improvements: ◦Focusing accuracy for main subject ◦Focus tracking performance on a person

•Adds the 1/50 shutter speed •Improves zoom speed during movie recording"

Sony eSupport - FDR-AX100 - Support (http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=FDRAX100&template_id=1&region_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab)

How well does the focus tracking work on the AX100? Video test:

Sony FDR AX100 4K Video: Focus Tracking and Auto-focus Test on Vimeo

Ken, one of the reasons the downscale looks better is that it effectively becomes a 422 file compared to the original 420.These new cameras are already 10bit 422 and may very well give the same results.

Ron Evans

Right, but it's also the resolution Ron. I've yet to use an HD camera that had the luminance detail that the down rez'd 4K>HD had.

Have any of you very knowledgeable 4k shooters had a chance to objectively compare what the Lumix fz1000 will look like as compared to your current models , the ax100 in particular. I've been a Sony fan for many years and will continue because of the reliabilty factor for one thing
the fz1000 is in my budget range but I don't want inferior video so what's the deal? will lumix stand up to ax100?

I can only go by the one demo video that was released by Panasonic thus far. When viewed in 4K, it's apparent the Lumix doesn't have the resolution or the dynamic range of the AX1000. But at its price point, it's not reasonable to expect it would.

A pro version of the AX100 is coming?
Slashcam News : Sony shows XDCAM Pro version of the FDR-AX100 (http://www.slashcam.com/news/single/Sony-shows-XDCAM-Pro-version-of-the-FDR-AX100-11462.html)

Guess you didn't read the page before this. Already discussed. No firm mention of 4K

Still nothing concrete, but those wanting some more info on the mystery cam i pointed to earlier in this thread, you might want to look at a certain red coloured toothy critter of a website.

Right, but it's also the resolution Ron. I've yet to use an HD camera that had the luminance detail that the down rez'd 4K>HD had.

For a normal consumer 420 camera that may be true but the resolution difference comes from the extra colour information that 422 brings to the downconvert that is there in the original for expensive pro 422 10 bit cameras now. 1920x1080 cannot get more and lots of consumer cameras have a lot less. However for a consumer camera the colour information at 420 is 1/4 of this. So the downconvert from 4K looks to have more resolution because of the extra colour information clearly seen in faces etc. Pro 422 or 444 HD cameras already have this extra information which is the point I was making for these new cameras from Sony. The difference for a downconvert from the AX100 may not be different for these 422 10bit cameras.

Ron Evans

re: the LANC... can you confirm the configuration you're using - I'm presuming the VMC-AVM1 adapter and RM-AV2 with the "D" A/V plug? I've got that combo and am trying to sort out using it with the RX series... it "should" work, but for some odd reason doesn't (see above!). The VPR1/VPR10 remotes use the MULTI, have the same chip that is in the AV2, which basically does the same thing in both units - allows remote control of zoom, on/off, shutter, record (the VPR "handle" I have adds a couple things). Glad to hear that it "should" work with the AX100 at least, as the camera is on the "acquire soon" list.

The instructions with the AVM1 show it for "Handycam", but strangely not for the Cybershots, even though the interface is definitely THERE on the MULTI interface to allow remote control!

So far I've got pinouts, and have the two controllers apart for "examination", just haven't figured out the "key" to unlock the function - Sony uses "trigger" resistors, and somehow the VPR's do something a little different from the AV2 LANC controls... I suspect it's just a resistor on one of the other pins....

It would help to know for sure that the AVM1/AV2 combo does work on the AX100, I'm presuming that the VPR's also work...

Sony comes up with these "new improved" interfaces, and it's "fun" to try to figure out how to make them do what you expect!! The MULTI seems to replace the A/V, which replaced the LANC and A/V.[/QUOTE]

I was wondering is you have gotten the LANC to work and what is the correct setup and parts?
Thanks in advance

Mark, thanks for link for update. It seems to me zoom speed is faster since I updated.

Improves zoom speed during movie recording

Wish they would come to their senses and improve this on the rx10 as well.

No issues with this firmware update?

I have a new AX-100 that I have been testing, nothing used for real production yet, guess I can take the leap.

UPDATE: Firmware 2.0 uploaded, no issues so far.

@ Todd -

Haven't yet figured out any way to make the AV2 work with the RX series - it does work fine using the AVM1 to the the AX100 I've picked up since that post.

Have been too busy to return to the reverse engineering process. Power is transmitted, but the LANC signal isn't, I'm fairly sure there is a trigger mechanism of some sort, but that's as far as I've gotten...

Got a chance to take the AX100 out for some "fun" shooting (so didn't matter if my camera work stunk as I fatigued while marching around a "theme park"!).

First thing I wanted to "test" was shutter speeds and the ND filters - I got more "pleasant" motion (and seemingly less RS) if I kept the shutter speeds down - nice slight motion blur, instead of stutter from individual sharp frames. 60, 90, 125 seemed to work well, where at first I saw the camera on auto picking 350, and it didn't look as good! Manual control was quite easy to use - I could lock in the shutter speed, and let the camera ride the rest, with exposure compensation on the "wheel" as needed...

I did find a little "shimmer" in some areas on a couple clips (a light metal fence in the distance against a darker background of people) - nothing major, and I suspect unavoidable IF you also want super sharp footage. I may also have been at the hgher end of the shutter - was experimenting through the day... learning the controls.

All in all, the camera did a stunningly fine job, though I should have brought a compact monopod... when I was reasonably steady, the camera did a great job, even at night (fireworks/light show). Mostly tried to use the VF, especially in bright sun, that helped!

I still found myself wishing the RX10 had 4K.... but the AX100 is proving to be an excellent camera in it's own right. Now I've got to "edit" some and see how that goes!

May I ask, has the firmware update addressed what I feel is a bug and not a feature, the inability of the camera to remember to stay in large 4x 3 (15m) in image size menu when in photo mode.
It drives me nuts having to reset the image size every time I switch to photo mode!

Any word/rumours on when the FDR-AX3 might show up?

First thing I wanted to "test" was shutter speeds and the ND filters - I got more "pleasant" motion (and seemingly less RS) if I kept the shutter speeds down - nice slight motion blur, instead of stutter from individual sharp frames. 60, 90, 125 seemed to work well, where at first I saw the camera on auto picking 350, and it didn't look as good! Manual control was quite easy to use - I could lock in the shutter speed, and let the camera ride the rest, with exposure compensation on the "wheel" as needed...



Dave, unless there is a special need, I always choose 1/60th, lock it in, and then determine exposure using the zebras. This formula leads to extremely high success rates for almost all types of footage. I never let the camera go auto. I set a gain limit of about 15db or 18db to avoid excess noise.

I also will generally use a -.3 to -.5 exposure bias outdoors since the AX100, like most cameras, leans toward over-exposure. But setting the front multi-dial to either exposure or exposure bias, lets you easily control exposure while using the zebras as a guide.

I also have now found that the slower shutter settings are helpful to getting "good" results - experimented with them a bit, and seemed like 125 was about as far as you should go. The trick is to have it slow enough that there is "a bit" of natural motion blur to each frame with motion - it avoids the somewhat unnatural "30 sharp stills" per second vibe that makes any stutter or "shimmer" more prevalent and/or noticeable.. unless that's what you're after <wink>

Sounds like we are ending up setting the camera up fairly similar - lock shutter much slower than the "auto" would choose (at least in bright conditions), limit gain if appropriate, use exposure to adjust for best results. ND's are helpful, if a bit less convenient. I'll have to fiddle with zebras and peaking next - the VF was excellent, so I felt like I could just use the "Mk1 eyeball" for judging exposure, and it was accurate from the clips I shot.

Interestingly, I'm sure Sony doesn't cover ANY of these sorts of "tricks" to getting good results from the camera, and auto, while usable, may not give the best results. I've felt from the RX100 that Sony really designed these new cameras (RX and now AX) for people who have enough experience to use manual modes effectively, NOT the "average" consumer. As nice as auto modes can be, you get much more satisfying results if you know your "basics"!

I will say this much, once you get to work with the AX100 a bit and sort out the manual functions, it is truly an AMAZING camera. I've already seen a couple go fairly reasonable on ebay, and beginning to contemplate whether a second one would be a worthy addition to the gear collection (thanks Jeff, for putting that silly idea in me head!). I'm guessing that this camera goes WAY over the head of the average "point and shoot" and even some "pros"...

I can say it's been a bit of a learning process for me (tossing in a 4K capable computer in that learning curve!), but I and my eyes are quite happy with the results I'm getting! I still like the results from my RX10, but they do look soft in comparison (video, not the stills...).

ND's are helpful, if a bit less convenient. I'll have to fiddle with zebras and peaking next - the VF was excellent, so I felt like I could just use the "Mk1 eyeball" for judging exposure, and it was accurate from the clips I shot.



Dave, the built-in ND filters are far more convenient than if you had to use screw on ND filters. It's really a very welcome addition to a camera like this. Believe me, GH4 owners wish that Panasonic had done the same!

What you'll find is that by using the ND filters appropriately, you can get some really nice, shallow, DOF shots. That's the beauty of the ND filters. It lets you get a wider aperture in bright conditions that would otherwise be impossible to attain and would lead to inevitable overexposure. :)

That's the beauty of the ND filters. It lets you get a wider aperture in bright conditions that would otherwise be impossible to attain and would lead to inevitable overexposure. :)

It's not impossible, you just have to ramp up your shutterspeed way high, eventhough that will lead to some other unwanted effects mainly on scenes where you have lots of movement but when I shoot talking heads at a wedding during the reception you don't notice if I shoot at very high shutterspeeds and I still can get a shallow dof in bright sunlight. I do however would liket to shoot with a build in ND, like my r10 has, so you can keep your shutter at a level that any scene that involves motion looks natural to the eye.

IMO, having those ND's available becomes more important with 4K (and I only meant they are a bit trickier, being on the back of the cam, but that's not a really big issue).

As has been noted, it's very easy to get stutter or shimmer when there is motion in these super sharp images - slowing the shutter so as to get some "natural" motion blur seems to substantially improve the situation.

My initial tests were with the camera running "auto"... not "bad" results, but some definite temporal motion "issues" - my latest efforts utilizing manual regulation of the shutter speed look MUCH better.

I suspect there may be some "balance" between 30 "perfect" freeze frames and 30 slightly motion blurred frames that one must achieve for "best" results. This was the sort of thing I wanted to find out about by getting the toes dipped into the 4K pool... I didn't expect it to be "grab and go" with perfect results right out of the gate....

It's not impossible, you just have to ramp up your shutterspeed way high, eventhough that will lead to some other unwanted effects mainly on scenes where you have lots of movement but when I shoot talking heads at a wedding during the reception you don't notice if I shoot at very high shutterspeeds and I still can get a shallow dof in bright sunlight. I do however would liket to shoot with a build in ND, like my r10 has, so you can keep your shutter at a level that any scene that involves motion looks natural to the eye.

True for talking head, but as you say, there are many other times you want to keep the shutter speed at 1/60th. For those numerous instances, ND filters are invaluable and having them built-in is that much more convenient.

I have (and love) a Canon XF100, but am looking for a higher res companion camera. Also, I'm interested in higher frame rates - the XF100 only does 60fps @ 720p. So, I'm looking at the AX100.

1. Is the 120fps a separate shooting mode, or is it limited to just holding down a button while shooting and it records a few seconds of 120?

2. If using the 120fps, does it revert to 720p?

3. I use autofocus 95% of the time. I've seen widely varying examples of this online. So, how's the AF?

For example, on my XF100 I can get fairly shallow DOF by opening the lens all the way, getting close, and zooming in. If I do this on an object 3 feet away, I get a nice soft background bokeh. Then, when I recompose on something in the background that is 20 feet away, the XF100 locks focus in 2-3 seconds (and that's with the AF speed set to Normal, instead of Medium or Instant.) So, will the AX100 give similar performance?

Thanks

It's not impossible, you just have to ramp up your shutterspeed way high, eventhough that will lead to some other unwanted effects mainly on scenes where you have lots of movement but when I shoot talking heads at a wedding during the reception you don't notice if I shoot at very high shutterspeeds and I still can get a shallow dof in bright sunlight. I do however would liket to shoot with a build in ND, like my r10 has, so you can keep your shutter at a level that any scene that involves motion looks natural to the eye.

Dave, I haven't used the high speed modes, so I'll defer to those that have.

As for the AF, it's excellent and one of the best I've used from Sony in quite some time. It gets fooled very seldom and it does a nice job of locking on. Since I'm a 'run n gunner', the AF is very important to me.

Further, you can do a kind of pull focus with the touch screen by touching anything within the frame you want to camera to focus on. Focus shifts are nice and smooth rather than a 'boom boom' kind of thing, which I find distracting.

Having ND filter switches on the body of the camera is invaluable, love it. Missed it terribly while using GH2s and Canon XA10s.

Unlike Ken, I am not thrilled with the autofocus. It's just ok (to me). Saturday during introduction of the bridal party, in plenty of light the autofocus went haywire and I got a total blur as it hunted. I have not seen this behavior before. Ruined the shot. Generally it's ok but there is a tendency for it to hunt at times.

Overall I find the autofocus less capable than my $500 FZ200, but slightly better than the XA10, but not by much.

I am trying to figure out why the touch focus works sometime but not others. When it does work it's pretty good.

Footage from wedding Saturday is great, love it!

Does anyone know if there is a way to stop the camera from turning off when you close the LCD?

Does anyone know if there is a way to stop the camera from turning off when you close the LCD?

I do not own the AX100 (yet) but I understand that when you close the LCD monitor and leave the Viewfinder pulled out, the camcorder will stay turned on.

Jeff, if you keep the VF pulled out, closing the LCD will not shut off the power to the camera, but will merely divert the monitoring to the VF. I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

As far as touch focus, tapping the LCD screen twice always brings up the touch focus box (at least on my unit).

Thanks much Ken and C.C., pulling out the viewfinder works!

Touch focus just doesn't seem to work at all no matter how many times I tap it sometimes, but other times it's fine, must be I'm trying it a mode it doesn't work, I don't know. I'm always in autofocus when I use it, but otherwise cant think of why it doesn't work on occasion.

I have (and love) a Canon XF100, but am looking for a higher res companion camera. Also, I'm interested in higher frame rates - the XF100 only does 60fps @ 720p. So, I'm looking at the AX100.

1. Is the 120fps a separate shooting mode, or is it limited to just holding down a button while shooting and it records a few seconds of 120?

2. If using the 120fps, does it revert to 720p?

3. I use autofocus 95% of the time. I've seen widely varying examples of this online. So, how's the AF?

For example, on my XF100 I can get fairly shallow DOF by opening the lens all the way, getting close, and zooming in. If I do this on an object 3 feet away, I get a nice soft background bokeh. Then, when I recompose on something in the background that is 20 feet away, the XF100 locks focus in 2-3 seconds (and that's with the AF speed set to Normal, instead of Medium or Instant.) So, will the AX100 give similar performance?

Thanks

Here is a video showing how the autofocus does precisely in shifting from close-ups to far-away objects. It also shows you get perfectly nice bokeh with the lens. You can judge yourself:

Sony FDR AX100 4K Video: Auto Focus Test Outdoors on Vimeo

Unlike Ken, I am not thrilled with the autofocus. It's just ok (to me). Saturday during introduction of the bridal party, in plenty of light the autofocus went haywire and I got a total blur as it hunted. I have not seen this behavior before. Ruined the shot. Generally it's ok but there is a tendency for it to hunt at times.

I actually noticed that as well on my most recent shoot. So far it's been ok but it had some trouble on the last shoot. When you have the subject just off center and the center area has high contrast items, then the focus gets confused alas especially if the face detection doesn't work which can happen when only one eye on a person is visible. That's with version 1.00 of the firmware though, I've since updated the camera to version 2.00 firmware although I haven't tested it on a shoot yet. But the new firmware does claim to have auto focus improvements.

Auto focus was pretty good last week when I shot 5 dance concerts, however when the stage lights went out at the end of each item, the camera would reset the auto focus at 0.1 metres, thus completely screwing up the start of the next item when the lights came back up..

I had to teach myself to switch to manual before the end of each act, but of course during 6 hours of recording I forgot sometimes.

Why doesn't it stay where is was until it has something to focus on is beyond me, it would make much more sense.

Cheers,

Vaughan

How can it know whether there is something to focus on or not until it checks through it's focus range? Fortunately us humans are far more intelligent than most cameras.

Yes Alister, but it ALWAYS resets back to 0.1 metres. That's the frustrating bit. It means NOTHING is in focus. Surely they could easily design it to rest at a midway point instead of 0.1 metres!

Cheers,

Vaughan

Trusting the camera's autofocus to know where to focus in the transition from pitch black to bright light is like taking a u-turn with your car and halfway letting go of the steeringwheel...

There doesn't exist a camera that will get it right in autofocus mode if it doesn't have anything to focus on, you always will have to go manual if you want to have a guarantee it remains in focus.

I assume it has touch spot focus that I use all the time on my small Sony's. Set in manual focus and use touch spot focus. The camera will then stay at that focus until changed. I set all my fixed unattended Sony's this way. My wife uses the NX30U for closeups and just touches where she wants the focus to be. If you are not moving the camera it will stay great for a show with lights going up and down etc with AE shift negative as all the Sony's over expose.

Ron Evans

I also use the touch focus a lot on my sony handicams though I have noticed that on my cx730's that has become less reliable and slower then on my older xr520. I always need to double check with a magnifying loupe te be sure.

Yes Alister, but it ALWAYS resets back to 0.1 metres. That's the frustrating bit. It means NOTHING is in focus. Surely they could easily design it to rest at a midway point instead of 0.1 metres!

Cheers,

Vaughan

Vaughan, when shooting a concert, wouldn't you be better off with MF anyway? Depending upon your distance from the stage, I'd think the focal points would all be pretty close.

I assume it has touch spot focus that I use all the time on my small Sony's. Set in manual focus and use touch spot focus. The camera will then stay at that focus until changed. I set all my fixed unattended Sony's this way. My wife uses the NX30U for closeups and just touches where she wants the focus to be. If you are not moving the camera it will stay great for a show with lights going up and down etc with AE shift negative as all the Sony's over expose.

Ron Evans

Ron, yes, it has touch focus, touch exposure and a combination of both. For some events, if you are using AF, the touch focus is the best way to go. Tracking focus works quite nicely too and was one of the improvements in the last firmware upgrade.

I have a pen sized stylus with a rubbery tip on it much smaller than the end of my finger, Designed for touch screens on phones I think and it works great for precision touching an area of the screen whilst in the spot focus rectangle....bonus no greasy finger tip marks.
Can't remember where it came from a stocking stuffer I think
Has " Merkury" embossed on it

Good idea, Bruce.