C300 Discussion

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

I imagine the successful films you're discussing have gone through development hell, putting deals together and various other hurtles. If you can do that successfully, the funds will come for a high end camera, but to get to that stage you have to prove yourself and a 8 bit camera can make a film that's both profitable and allows a film maker to prove themselves.

To answer your first part Independent is what it is and only a lucky few get production companies large enough for a big budget. To make your breakthrough film I think you'd be lucky to raise £250,000 through investors. The budget I'm looking at for my project could be as low as £60,000 no room there for an Alexa or even a C300.. Anyway my hope was to buy one of these new cameras and run numerous tests of my own before I take on board a DP. I know many DP's prefer to rent and that's fine Myself I like to familiarise myself with what the camera can do and it works Just in case you make a mistake when filming that means its all unusable or not the way you want it.

If I were to make a film using an 8 bit out I know I'd regret it in post and colour correction. If you want to use monsters as an example, fine. Good example.

[Heath McKnight]

My pal called me last night and gave me the low-down, said it feels great, footage looks fantastic and he said it was the camera we wanted 10 years ago. And he doesn't throw words like that around too often -- he's a long-time video and film guy who has been waiting for something to come along that didn't cost $1800 a day to rent, or $100,000+ to buy.

It is pricey, but very interesting. I don't know, but the proof is always in the pudding. Both are priced pretty close, both have S35 sensors, etc., but the price goes up esp. once you add accessories to Scarlet, which you have to do.

Heath

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

If I were to make a film using an 8 bit out I know I'd regret it in post and colour correction. If you want to use monsters as an example, fine. Good example.

If you're director, unless you're also the DP, I'd leave the finer details of the camera to the DP, that's their job. With the right camera you can pretty much nail the look in camera, rather than getting into heavy colour correction in post, that's what a good DP can do with the camera's internal menus. The post is then just doing the fine grading tweeks.

Red's new Scarlet camera is S35 rather 2/3", so really comes to deciding work flows etc.rather than the sensor size in this case.

[Justin Molush]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

It is pricey, but very interesting. Super 35 sensor vs. RED Scarlet's 2/3? I don't know, but the proof is always in the pudding. Both are priced pretty close, esp. once you add accessories to Scarlet, which you have to do.

Scarlet is S35. What really kills me about the Canon is no 1080/60p. For low key shooting (no extended shooting), the 14k package from RED works just fine... I have EF glass to throw on it already so thats a zero cost. Scarlet it is for me... Working on getting my finances in order already....

[Heath McKnight]

Whoops, I will correct that, thanks! But here's the difference between RED and Canon... Canon has a better supply chain than RED, which only means that they'll deliver more, quicker. I'm not talking about overall quality, just speed and number.

heath

[Heath McKnight]

One more thing to note... Canon has never made a camera like this (and apparently they have a 4K lens that costs $45,000), so I don't think they're marketing it to their usual customer base, who use the XF100, etc. I think they're aiming for major Hollywood productions, hence Scorsese at the event.

Heath

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

If you're director, unless you're also the DP, I'd leave the finer details of the camera to the DP, that's their job. With the right camera you can pretty much nail the look in camera, rather than getting into heavy colour correction in post, that's what a good DP can do with the camera's internal menus. The post is then just doing the fine grading tweeks.

.

The right camera to do that with effectively costs a lot of money. You're better to shoot flat and get the grade you want in post in my opinion.

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Dom Stevenson

If people stopped shooting because of a new camera announcement then more fool them.

And anyway, as Brian pointed out, camera specs are largely meaningless to film goers, who are more interested in the script etc.

Although camera specs are meaningless to film goers it doesn't mean to say they wouldn't recognise something shot on a lessor camera. They would. In fact that is the reason why manufacturers have more expensive options. If that wasn't the case everyone would be making movies on their cell phone

The fact is a lot of folks on this thread allowed themselves to get carried away with ever more ludicrous speculation. And you can't blame canon for that.

Maybe they did but I don't believe the majority of speculation was ludicrous in fact most of it was accurate. What was wrong was the price point which Canon led people to believe would be more affordable because they targeted all consumers. Also if this was an ad campaign run on TV it would never be allowed as it would be misleading in my opinion.

This is canons initial foray into motion picture cameras, many more will follow. In the meantime there are many fantastic cheaper options around.

Yeah all crippled

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

The right camera to do that with effectively costs a lot of money. You're better to shoot flat and get the grade you want in post in my opinion.

The FS 100 has a surprising number of levels to set each colour in the camera and other adjustments in its menus. Of course, you do need a good monitor and a means of setting your exposure accurately, which is a requirement with any video camera shooting a feature film.

However, if you're doing any strong "looks" you do need to keep to them and you can't change your mind afterwards. In practise this isn't a huge deal, since you can see what you're getting live on set and you can see if everything is working.

[Mark David Williams]

Problem is if you change your mind and I do frequently. :)

[Mark David Williams]

I wouldn't buy an FS100 it doesn't have any ND filters only 8bit out issues with panning arghh form factor cant have the camera at head height One card slot. awful.

[Allan Barnwell]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

One more thing to note... Canon has never made a camera like this (and apparently they have a 4K lens that costs $45,000), so I don't think they're marketing it to their usual customer base, who use the XF100, etc. I think they're aiming for major Hollywood productions, hence Scorsese at the event.

Heath

I have to agree with Heath on Canon's approach on this camera. I'm a dealer and sell the other Canon video cameras - but to my surprise, I just learned that Canon isn't even giving dealers like myself access to this camera. So I'm very confused seeing as this was the type of camera I've been waiting for Canon to offer - and now I can't even resell it.

Twice in one day I see two cameras announced that need the support of knowledgeable local dealers - and neither are available to them. And don't even get me started on Apple...

Allan Barnwell
Omega Broadcast Group - Professional Video Sales, Rental & Services

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Dick Mays

To the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody

But then late last night I bought a Scarlet
Am I happy?
YES I'M HAPPY!
Is he happy?
YES HE'S HAPPY!
Happy happy happy happy happeeeeeeee!
JimJannard please deliver it soooon!

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Yeah all crippled

There's a saying about the carpenter who blames his tools... are you familiar with it?

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Problem is if you change your mind and I do frequently. :)

When grading in post you can't keep changing your mind either, if you don't have a vision of the film as a whole you wouldn't have the constancy that you need on a feature film.