Re: Canon EOS C100
 

some first LCD position info.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

The amount of slow motion you use depends on the types of productions you're making. For example you're more likely to use it in a commercial than say a drama. Some really smart slow motion is at say 36 fps, not the wow look at this really sloooow motion. Overall 3% probably covers a broad range of productions, which mostly involve using natural actions like speech and trying to keep the pacing up, rather than slowing it down.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Will the footage be accepted by BBC?

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

AVCHD/Mpeg 4 is not okay with the BBC or Discovery.....they probably allow 20-25% max of any given project. Anyone across the pond could clear this up????

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Probably need to use a Nanoflash to get approval.

C100 + Nanoflash = C300 (roughly the same codec, and the same chip).

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

The BBC might with an external recorder like the Nanoflash, similar to the FS100 or AF100. Of course, as mentioned, it could fit in with the percentage SD content they allow.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I posted about the standards required by the BBC (via the EBU) in another thread - http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/photo-hd...ml#post1750845

Most important to note though is that the EBU (or BBC) doesn't now simply "pass" or "fail" cameras - they rate them on a tiering system. It's all in two documents, Tech 3335 describes the measuring process - but it's the sister document R118 that describes how to interpret those results - and which defines the rules! See EBU TECHNICAL - News - Are your cameras tiered enough for HD?

For unrestricted use, the camera would have to fit into Tier 1 or Tier 2L, and I'm afraid the use of AVC-HD would restrict it to Tier 3, no matter how good the front end would be.

Add an external recorder and that is no longer an issue, and based on the C300 results I strongly suspect it would then be seen as good enough to be considered Tier 2L. Good news, though it couldn't be definitely said until it's been tested.

I foresee a large number of C100s being sold as a package with a nanoFlash...... :-)

Re: Canon EOS C100 - Rationale For Purchasing
 

That's exactly my rationale too! C100 + Recorder = C300 picture quality at a much reduced price :-)

For those that are interested I've put a detailed rationale of why I pre-ordered the C100 here. Personally, I think demand for the C100 will be huge so I wanted to get on a UK suppliers pre-order list very quickly!

CanonC100

Over many months I've looked really hard at the FS700 etc. but in the end I've voted with my wallet for the Canon.

The article is still work in progress - and I know we all have different needs and wants from a camera, as well as budgets - but it might be useful to someone who is about to make a purchase decision.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Why are the BBC so pedantic yet when you watch some documentary or news coverage the resolution is a disgrace as if shot on an old Hi8 camcorder??

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

News has always had lower technical requirements than programmes due to the diffilcuilties of the tight schedule, keeping costs down and needing portable equipment. 24 hour news coverage has only increased these pressures. The important thing is getting pictures by any means and these days that can include using the internet. Although I gather that can have issues of it's own, including bandwidth.

Most of the BBC documentaries have been SD until very recently and the standards for those are lower than HD. Now, with everything now going digital with highly compressed HD channels, they want to minimize the artifacts in the transmission chain on their flagship HD channel.Given the much lower costs and the range of compact cameras that can now meet these standards, I suspect the argument against lowering them doesn';t really hold water any more.

There are cable channels which will accept lower spec HD material, so you need to check their requirements..

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I understand the importance of using high quality codec's however why is everyone always going on about if a camera is BBC approved? How many of us will ever get the opportunity to show work on BBC? Seriously. I'm disappointed with Canon the C100 is over priced, the FS700 seems like a better deal.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Andy, excellent write-up in your blog. You've pretty much nailed it as far as the need for the C100.

I an the owner of an FS100, and while this has been a great camera for me, I'm seriously looking at the C100. I was able to handle a C300 a friend of mine rented. I was very impressed with the build quality and ergonomics. It felt so sturdy and solid. And the images were fantastic! As much as I like the images from the FS100, the C300's images blew me away.
If the C100 can come close to the C300's attributes, it should be a winner - provided the price is right. Since it will be smaller and lighter - only a half-pound heavier than the 5D, from what I've read - it should be great for run-and-gun and solo shooting.

And to be honest, I just love the way the C100 looks. It makes me want to grab it, put the viewfinder to my eye, and start shooting. Hardly a logical reason to buy a camera, but oh, well.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I guess because the EBU/BBC standards are the guide for what's permissible for broadcast quality video. If your camera is good enough for the EBU, it's good enough for anybody.

Here in the US, I'm not at all concerned with what the EBU demands, but many of our European members might see this as a real objective. Maybe they will get an opportunity to shoot for the BBC, who knows? Having a camera that passes their minimum guidelines sure would help.

The US also has broadcast standards that networks demand. I can tell you that very few will allow programs to be shot entirely on an AVCHD codec. It's possible, and there are shows shot entirely on good ol' HDV, but the usual minimum is a 50mbps codec.

As far as the C100 being overpriced, that depends on each individual, and if they think the camera is worth the asking price. Is the FS700 a better deal? Again, that depends on your needs. For some, it is. But I agree, the FS700 offers a heck of a lot for the price.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I have to admit as someone who just got a C300, there's a lot I find to envy about the C100. Lighter and more compact, less setup to start shooting, LCD is always there. I do like having the XF Codec, but once the C100 is out it will be interesting to see if there truly is a huge advantage to the XF. If I had to choose and they were both available, I might go with the C100 (and the cost doesn't even come out of my pocket). Now if I had to pay for it, I'd definitely get the C100. Heck, I might consider selling the C300 and buying two C100s once available.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

That thought has gone through my mind too.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Thanks Glen. Just getting it straight in my head before I break the news to my wife...."What, ANOTHER CAMERA!" ;-)

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Ha Ha Andy! Join the club. There's never an easy way to tell them!
Keeping up with the latest technology doesn't seem to mean the same to them somehow...

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Canon Europe are exhibiting at IBC in Amsterdam which starts in a few days time.

I wonder if they'll have a C100 (or two...) on the stand? (I would imagine they would, but maybe it's just too recent an announcement). If the C100 is on show and any "DVInfoers" are going please get as many pictures etc. and info as you can, though I doubt that they'll let you stick a SDHC card in one to record AVCHD clips to take away - but you never know!

Cheers!

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Beyond the codec, one other thing to keep in mind is that the C100 has a smaller, coarser EVF, and it can't be repositioned ergonomically like the C300's. That could be quite a drawback, as the C300 EVF is a treat to use.

And you lose 720/60p, which is really quite usable on the C300.

I would agree though, that the C100 is a much better value proposition, and if I hadn't already bought the C300 it would be tough to justify the additional cost.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

This does concern me. I'm spoiled by the FS100 and EX3's large viewfinder. The C100's looks pretty small.

Checking the stats, the C100's EVF is only .24"! Wow, that's tiny. I've been working with an NX5U and it has a .45" EVF. I thought that was pretty small.
I mostly shoot using the EVF.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Yes, Canon will be showing the C100s.........

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Thanks Jim.

I also found this 4 page article on the Canon website - gives a good overview of the C100.

Canon DLC: Article: An Introduction to the EOS C100 Digital Video Camera

Re: Canon EOS C100 and Atomos Ninja 2
 

Welcome news. Atomos have announced that they are adding Canon C100 support to their Ninja-2. Me thinks this will be a common combo...;-)

Press Release below:

http://www.atomos.com/press/articles...0-20120906.xml

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

... As will be the C100/Nanoflash combo that gives you C300 identical MPEG2 output to CF cards with the additional of higher bit rates as well as the identical bit rate.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I just got the Call....the C100 will sell for $6499.00

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: Canon EOS C100 and Atomos Ninja 2
 

Which is better, the Atomos Ninja with ProRes and a simple monitor screen, or a Nanoflash that converts the C100 to exactly the same 4:2:2 CF card system as teh C300 with additional higher bit rates and HDMI conversion to SDI? The cost of media on the Ninja is about $15 per hour with HDDs and on the Nanoflash about $30 per hour.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Woohoo! Why does your site list it for $7999 then?

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Our web dept. should have the new pricing up for both the C100 & C500 on Monday.......patience please...

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Oh! I didn't realize it had been listed as $7,999 on your site for awhile now. I was just wondering if you were going to list it for $6499 or not. Question answered.

Thanks! I didn't mean to seem impatient.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Official sample video.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Shot to hide, not reveal, camera characteristics. Grading makes it seem like a contrasty, but highly detailed, consumer cam. Hope that was iPad, and not the camera,

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I agree it was a very poor (potential) demo of this cams (hoped for) capabilities. Watching it left me feeling frustrated.

There were few moments in that film that made me feel I'd made the right choice to pre-order. Thank god there is the uncompressed HDMI out available (in case they really needed to hide the AVCHD 4.2.0 picture quality rather than it being "an artistic decision"). Only because I've seen some truly beautiful stuff shot on the C300 did I keep watching.

Ah well, let's see something MUCH better from the C100 please Canon, and SOON....

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

OK, I've calmed down a little bit .....Some interesting shots in the 'making of/behind the scenes' type video which can be found on this Canon website link:

Canon: CINEMA EOS SYSTEM Sample Movie?EOS C100

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I thought it looked pretty sweet but you guys know a hell of a lot more about it than me.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

I noticed a couple of really quick time lapses in there. Wasn't the camera not supposed to be able to do them? Or were they just done in post.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

No, we don't. The camera isn't out yet, no one has had a chance to do a review.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

There's a lot to like about this camera, although our biggest issue with it and the C300 is finding the best match for it when we need 60p 1080 (which is a lot).

The one thing that's really obvious from the behind the scenes is that they didn't consider the EVF to be quite up to par, as they had a Zacuto gaffer taped to the LCD.

A first rate VF is pretty important for the one person/doc market they say C100 is aimed at.
The push button AF and exposure could be pretty cool, in a pinch, for the one take action sports we do a lot of, but a great VF is more so.

The C300 is looking more and more like the best option here.

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

Of course, the C300 is a better option. Now, can you afford the $16,000 price tag? For those of us that can't, the C100 is an affordable option. In my case, the best option, since there's no way I can economically justify the C300.
If you need 1080/60P, neither camera is for you. Perhaps the FS100/700?

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

The film was shot in Wide DR Gamma, which adds range into blacks and then the blacks were delibrately crushed by the director who wanted it to look like a 5d, so it did. This test shows nothing except that Canon marketing has no idea of what consumers want to see and what directors did to their camera during shooting,

Re: Canon EOS C100
 

OK, I've got an hour while I render out a wedding video - don't normally do them but I got asked - so there you go!

Here are my personal concerns when I watched that first official Canon C100 video. OK, the story was very crass/naff but we can all see beyond that. It was designed to be a film that gave many locations, activities and opportunities to show off the strengths of the C100, right?

Well, that's why I was so disappointed!

1. Heavy grading and lots of quick shot cuts, almost deliberate slow pans/slight movements - to kill detail - they trying to hide something? Certainly, I saw some blown out highlights (faces/planes etc.). We all know it's impossible to fully judge quality on a Vimeo encoded 720p viewed on the web - but web viewing is how most of my clients view my work and I have seen stunning C300 footage via this medium.
2. Very DSLR look with crushed blacks - I can imagine someone could produce a similar looking video with a Canon DSLR like a 5DMkIII (albeit lacking some sharpness in a few of the plane etc. shots). We now know he did this look deliberately....seems many people like the look (and Philip Bloom liked it on Vimeo...) so maybe it's just me. Seems to me, you'd need to convince DSLR shooters that this is a big step up from "that look", not just a very expensive way of producing more of same? But what do I know! Canon marketing and the DoP must have had a reason for this approach but it eludes me.
3. As mentioned, there is a quick timelapse or two in there, where we all know it was done in post, not camera! Or maybe we really are getting more frame rate options, and especially the much needed 720p50/60 for slo mo etc. (which is a major oversight in the currently announced specs and will kill this camera for some, probably many, of its intended target buyers).
4. Sound syncing (and sound in general) was awful in some parts, e.g. footsteps - I'm amazed that got past the approval stage for worldwide launch of such an important product for Canon. After all, isn't one of the benefits of the C100 over DSLRs supposed to be the provision of professional XLR capture and sound controls etc?
5. Much more importantly, many times the focus was not "nailed" - I saw quite a few focus errors. Now is that because the fixed EVF and LCD (and focussing tools provided, peaking and expanded focus) are not up to the task? As already mentioned, in the "behind the scenes" video you can see them using a makeshift tape hood for the LCD, and sometimes a Zacutto viewer (or similar) gaffer taped to the LCD (Note to makers of those things - maybe you've got a market opportunity here...). This worries me as it does really tend to imply that the non-adjustable EVF and perhaps that LCD are weak areas for nailing focus - not good for a sole operator like me/many others that the camera is targeted at.

Now some positives (which come almost entirely from the behind the scenes video)

1. This is (as I hoped) going to be a documentary/run-n-gun camera well suited to my personal needs. Small footprint, light, highly configureable, e.g. in stripped down format for steadicam work, tight space work, should (on paper) be excellent in low light work (it's blummin dim in some of the factories I film in!) etc. etc.
2. Impression I got was that the camera is as rugged as my 7D from the environments that were showcased - good news for the work I do! Saw lots of scenarios where I'd struggle with my EX3.

I'm still hoping C100 plus external recorder = C300 look at a price I can afford. I cannot justify a C300 price tag so I'm not cancelling my pre-order just yet - but I hope to see more informative video(s) soon.

Obviously, the above are my own opinions based on this first C100 demo film and I hope I'm proved wrong on some of my points as more video material becomes available.

I'd be very interested to read what others think.

EDIT: I also just found this video from IBC on YouTube. Now my German's not what it used to be... but there are some interesting menu operation etc. shots of the C100 as he describes its various functions: