HV20 questions re audio

Dale Baglo · April 8th, 2007, 10:03 PM

The Rode Video Mic is always worth a look too. Compared to my Canon DM-50, it seemed to pick up less motor noise when I tested it with a GL2. It's mono, not stereo (like the DM-50).

Rode mic info can be found here:
http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Pro...oduct=VideoMic

Chris Barcellos · April 9th, 2007, 11:09 AM

Check out my photos of the HV20 with a mic mounted at the thread here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=90504&page=6

Dennis Vogel · April 9th, 2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Baglo

The Rode Video Mic is always worth a look too. Compared to my Canon DM-50, it seemed to pick up less motor noise when I tested it with a GL2.

It should. It has a shock mount.

Good luck.

Dennis

Elmer Lang · April 9th, 2007, 04:46 PM

On it's webpage it says the Rode Video Mic has "a switchable high pass filter to reduce unwanted low frequency rumble".

Is that the frequency zone we're talking about, or another?

Would a hypercardioid mic do a better job?

best
elmer

Elmer Lang · April 12th, 2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Elmer:
This week sometime I plan to try the rig with my Sennheiser ME66 attached. Biggest issue I see is the potential for mic, due to length, protruding to far into picture frame...

Hey Chris,

I was hoping you were going to post your impressions of the HV20 with ME66 attached, or other mic.

best,
elmer

Chris Barcellos · April 12th, 2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmer Lang

Hey Chris,

I was hoping you were going to post your impressions of the HV20 with ME66 attached, or other mic.

best,
elmer

I just ran one short test, actually in automode. I'll see if I can post some sound track...

Chris Barcellos · April 12th, 2007, 02:27 PM

As requested here are two wave files with the camera mic and the ME 66, in a room. File names explain which is which. These are waves rendered off a captured hdv time line, in Premiere Pro 2.0

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/mictestME66.wav

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/mictestcameramic.wav

Elmer Lang · April 12th, 2007, 03:26 PM

Great to hear! Thanks, Chris, for posting both wav files!!

My impression was that they both were picking up motor noise.

According to my sound meter in FCP, the ME66 audio, when you weren't talking, was about -33dB, the HV20's mic about -30dB. The HV10 on-cam mic registers -36dB.

What are your impressions? Was the ME66's audio levels/noise 'pickup' different from your experience with other cameras/recorders?

Thanks again, Chris, you've been great and I appreciate it!

best,
elmer

Rob Katz · April 12th, 2007, 03:34 PM

chris-

nice job posting some audio samples.

to my tired ole ears the me66 sounded much cleaner though there clearly was some sound bouncing around in the room. can u please describe how the recording was made? hv20 on a tripod? u standing approx how many feet in front of the mic? room conditions (room was a bit bright)

would u think about passing the audio signal thru an external field pre (mixpre) so u could control the imput in ways the audiio controls of the hv20 do not allow?

i ask the above because of the hv20's very low profile, i'm thinking of using it on some talking head interviews with folks who may feel overwhelmed by a bigger rig---even one the size of the diminutive a1. if i thought i could control the sound inputs i would seriously consider using/buying the hv20 for this shoot.

any thoughts u could offer would be greatly appreciated.

again, thanks for posting.

be well

rob

Chris Barcellos · April 12th, 2007, 05:41 PM

Elmer and Rob:

The room was our family room, hard wood floors, 10 foot ceiling, joining to kitchen. Definitely a bright, noisy, echoing room. I was about 4 to 5 feet from camera mounted on a tripod. I was using DXA-4 (I always get this backward, so could be DX4-A) adapter from Beachtek. Dials were set a about 4 or 5 right and left, with switch set at mono, since ME66 is mono. I think I posted picuture of how it was mounted on camera earlier in this thread. The mic is has XLR cord to the adapter, but I noted the other day that it was making a bit of noise on movement.

I'm thinking I could have put camera sound into manual, and adjusted things better. I'm not sure if that would help camera sound. I have a sock on the mic I put on myself, and it is by no means technically correct. It a piece of foam with cloth over it. Use it to hoping to take some of the brightness out, but that is probably not the right thing to do...

I may try some some testing in a carpeted room to see if any difference occurs. I will post the sound clip this evening, I hope.

I do thin think this camera is workable to provide a low profile shoot like you are talking about, Rob.

Chris Barcellos · April 12th, 2007, 11:02 PM

This sound test has three different tests in the same smaller room, with carpeting, but 10 ft ceilings.

I describe each test, but includes Me66 on camera, camera mic only, and ME66 mounted off camera:

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/newsoundtest.wav

Elmer Lang · April 13th, 2007, 01:15 AM

Chris

Excellent report! You had really good levels with your DXA-4, and the ME66 was sweet.

It was interesting the difference on my FCP's levels. The ME66, in silence, registered about -42 (-33dB, 1st test). But you still had excellent levels when you spoke.

When removed from the camera it registered the same really, maybe sliiiightly lower.

I think I heard motor noise, but it was very faint.

Surprising was that the HV20's audio, in silence, was also lower, about -36dB in silence (-30dB, 1st test). Odd.

Thanks again!

best,
elmer

Pieter Jongerius · April 13th, 2007, 02:51 PM

Chris, others,
thanks, makes for some excellent reading & listening...
There is another test I am planning on doing (when I get my hv20, which may take some weeks still): measuring the noise the camera records when there is NO mic active (not even internal), and with automatic gain control off. So we get an idea of the quality of the in-cam analog components used before the AD conversion. Could one trick the camera into disabling the on board mic by plugging in some unattached cable?

Chris Barcellos · April 13th, 2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieter Jongerius

Chris, others,
thanks, makes for some excellent reading & listening...
There is another test I am planning on doing (when I get my hv20, which may take some weeks still): measuring the noise the camera records when there is NO mic active (not even internal), and with automatic gain control off. So we get an idea of the quality of the in-cam analog components used before the AD conversion. Could one trick the camera into disabling the on board mic by plugging in some unattached cable?

That should work. I know it worked that way when I had my Beachtek attached in a rush out the door to a kids concert, and didn't bring ear phone, and started recording. The Beachtek was still plugged in, but no mic atached. Had a nice sillent track.

Alex Moskvin · May 2nd, 2007, 06:13 AM

looking for a external mic around $200 - $300 for HV 20. Objective, to record female opera singer with big voice accompanied with piano. Need a 'warm' mic to avoid harsh reproduction esp. at the top. mic has to be placed out of view perhaps 5' - 8' away.

What other equipment do I need to make it work. Also want to avoid post production editing other copying onto dvd's.

Thanks.

April 9th, 2007, 11:09 AM	#17
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Check out my photos of the HV20 with a mic mounted at the thread here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=90504&page=6 __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 12th, 2007, 02:27 PM	#22
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Mic Testing Camera v. ME66 As requested here are two wave files with the camera mic and the ME 66, in a room. File names explain which is which. These are waves rendered off a captured hdv time line, in Premiere Pro 2.0 http://www.makeyourfilm.net/mictestME66.wav http://www.makeyourfilm.net/mictestcameramic.wav __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 12th, 2007, 03:34 PM	#24
Rob Katz Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: new york city, new york Posts: 594	hv20 and ext mics chris- nice job posting some audio samples. to my tired ole ears the me66 sounded much cleaner though there clearly was some sound bouncing around in the room. can u please describe how the recording was made? hv20 on a tripod? u standing approx how many feet in front of the mic? room conditions (room was a bit bright) would u think about passing the audio signal thru an external field pre (mixpre) so u could control the imput in ways the audiio controls of the hv20 do not allow? i ask the above because of the hv20's very low profile, i'm thinking of using it on some talking head interviews with folks who may feel overwhelmed by a bigger rig---even one the size of the diminutive a1. if i thought i could control the sound inputs i would seriously consider using/buying the hv20 for this shoot. any thoughts u could offer would be greatly appreciated. again, thanks for posting. be well rob

April 12th, 2007, 05:41 PM	#25
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Elmer and Rob: The room was our family room, hard wood floors, 10 foot ceiling, joining to kitchen. Definitely a bright, noisy, echoing room. I was about 4 to 5 feet from camera mounted on a tripod. I was using DXA-4 (I always get this backward, so could be DX4-A) adapter from Beachtek. Dials were set a about 4 or 5 right and left, with switch set at mono, since ME66 is mono. I think I posted picuture of how it was mounted on camera earlier in this thread. The mic is has XLR cord to the adapter, but I noted the other day that it was making a bit of noise on movement. I'm thinking I could have put camera sound into manual, and adjusted things better. I'm not sure if that would help camera sound. I have a sock on the mic I put on myself, and it is by no means technically correct. It a piece of foam with cloth over it. Use it to hoping to take some of the brightness out, but that is probably not the right thing to do... I may try some some testing in a carpeted room to see if any difference occurs. I will post the sound clip this evening, I hope. I do thin think this camera is workable to provide a low profile shoot like you are talking about, Rob. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 12th, 2007, 11:02 PM	#26
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	This sound test has three different tests in the same smaller room, with carpeting, but 10 ft ceilings. I describe each test, but includes Me66 on camera, camera mic only, and ME66 mounted off camera: http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/newsoundtest.wav __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 8th, 2007, 10:03 PM	#16
Dale Baglo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 64	The Rode Video Mic is always worth a look too. Compared to my Canon DM-50, it seemed to pick up less motor noise when I tested it with a GL2. It's mono, not stereo (like the DM-50). Rode mic info can be found here: http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Pro...oduct=VideoMic

April 9th, 2007, 04:46 PM	#19
Elmer Lang Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NY, NY Posts: 319	On it's webpage it says the Rode Video Mic has "a switchable high pass filter to reduce unwanted low frequency rumble". Is that the frequency zone we're talking about, or another? Would a hypercardioid mic do a better job? best elmer

April 12th, 2007, 03:26 PM	#23
Elmer Lang Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NY, NY Posts: 319	Great to hear! Thanks, Chris, for posting both wav files!! My impression was that they both were picking up motor noise. According to my sound meter in FCP, the ME66 audio, when you weren't talking, was about -33dB, the HV20's mic about -30dB. The HV10 on-cam mic registers -36dB. What are your impressions? Was the ME66's audio levels/noise 'pickup' different from your experience with other cameras/recorders? Thanks again, Chris, you've been great and I appreciate it! best, elmer

April 13th, 2007, 01:15 AM	#27
Elmer Lang Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NY, NY Posts: 319	Chris Excellent report! You had really good levels with your DXA-4, and the ME66 was sweet. It was interesting the difference on my FCP's levels. The ME66, in silence, registered about -42 (-33dB, 1st test). But you still had excellent levels when you spoke. When removed from the camera it registered the same really, maybe sliiiightly lower. I think I heard motor noise, but it was very faint. Surprising was that the HV20's audio, in silence, was also lower, about -36dB in silence (-30dB, 1st test). Odd. Thanks again! best, elmer

April 13th, 2007, 02:51 PM	#28
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Chris, others, thanks, makes for some excellent reading & listening... There is another test I am planning on doing (when I get my hv20, which may take some weeks still): measuring the noise the camera records when there is NO mic active (not even internal), and with automatic gain control off. So we get an idea of the quality of the in-cam analog components used before the AD conversion. Could one trick the camera into disabling the on board mic by plugging in some unattached cable?

May 2nd, 2007, 06:13 AM	#30
Alex Moskvin Tourist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York, NY Posts: 3	please recommend looking for a external mic around $200 - $300 for HV 20. Objective, to record female opera singer with big voice accompanied with piano. Need a 'warm' mic to avoid harsh reproduction esp. at the top. mic has to be placed out of view perhaps 5' - 8' away. What other equipment do I need to make it work. Also want to avoid post production editing other copying onto dvd's. Thanks.