Nikon D90 has 720p24 over HDMI

Vincent Oliver · September 16th, 2008, 02:28 AM

Just as a thought. I don't see the D90 as a replacement to a video camcorder, it is however a useful camera to have for the odd drop in shot here and there, especially if you need to use wide angle lenses. Fortunately I didn't sell my collection of older style Nikkor lenses (18 lenses ranging from 20mm through to 500mm Reflex Nikkor). These will now all have a second life.

I can see the potential for the D90, although two years down the line I am sure we will have something more spectacular.

Regarding focusing via Live View, it wouldn't take the genius of a brain surgeon to work out how to attach an inexpensive X8 or X4 loupe to the rear LCD screen guard, something along similar lines to the flip down magnifier on the Sony EX3.

Jon Fairhurst · September 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM

My only questions regarding the D90 now concern the HDMI output. I'm looking forward to somebody capturing it and determining:

* How's the picture look without compression? (Are the artifacts that we've seen due to subsampling the sensor, or due to M-JPEG encoding?)
* Can you configure the HDMI output to be 720p (vs. 1080i)? What's the default?
* Can you turn off the graphics overlay? (I believe not.)
* Does the overlay still allow for Cinemascope or similar aspect ratios?

Hopefully, somebody can do an HDMI capture and post some stills...

Jim Giberti · September 16th, 2008, 02:08 PM

So this new Panasonic 4/3 camera is in fact going to use AVCHD and shoot progressively.
That's confirmed so far.

Any thoughts on AVCHD vs mjpeg?

Obviously we're talking two different cameras but codec to codec.

Kurth Bousman · September 16th, 2008, 02:49 PM

What I've read so far the pany g1 doesnt yet do video at all - I believe they said something like "next generation" it's coming. I could be wrong but that's what I recall. After Photokina the smoke will clear alittle./k

Gints Klimanis · September 16th, 2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Yep, its a very low bit rate. So this is probably the main culprit, there are a lot of video artifacts

It would be very useful to inspect a short MJPEG file straight from the camera.

Here is another D90 movie:
http://vimeo.com/1709082

Would you folks kindly point out rolling shutter artifacts? I see some at 0:44 on the "Union Station via Street Corridor" blinking sign. Most of the wobble is during the handheld footage. I'm guessing that the jerkiness is made worse by VR in the lens.

Steven Thomas · September 16th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Hmm.
This may be just the what Nikon needs to get into the video cam market.

If they took their basis of this implementation and worked on it as a platform for their next post D90 model, it could be quite amazing. Also, I imagine a software upgrade could offer better video quality. Also, most important, enable at least full 4:2:2 1920x1080 via HDMI without icon overlays.

The feedback from this forum alone could provide enough infomation for their engineers.

It's appararent that Nikon wanted to take their video mode one step further with the D90. It's to bad that it may only tease us, especially with having the awesome capability of tight DOF, but no way of capturing this image in high quality video!

I can see this concept easily turning upcoming cameras into hybrid Digital SLR / Pro video camera. Bring'em on!

Christopher Drews · September 16th, 2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

My only questions regarding the D90 now concern the HDMI output. I'm looking forward to somebody capturing it and determining:

* How's the picture look without compression? (Are the artifacts that we've seen due to subsampling the sensor, or due to M-JPEG encoding?)
* Can you configure the HDMI output to be 720p (vs. 1080i)? What's the default?
* Can you turn off the graphics overlay? (I believe not.)
* Does the overlay still allow for Cinemascope or similar aspect ratios?

Hopefully, somebody can do an HDMI capture and post some stills...

I'm convinced everyone who has this camera and a intensity pro (loads of people) all had a little meeting and decided that when people ask about the HDMI output quality, they agreed just to ignore them. Adding to the frustration, some people started roomers of burned overlays and subpar HDMI quality. I feel like Jack's screaming "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
-C

Jim Giberti · September 16th, 2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman

What I've read so far the pany g1 doesnt yet do video at all - I believe they said something like "next generation" it's coming. I could be wrong but that's what I recall. After Photokina the smoke will clear alittle./k

No, there's a lot more substance to it than that. Basically all the info In my long post is from their site which has a section on the upcoming HD version of the G1 with video clips, and their Japanese site with promo material from a Japanese photo show. I have pictures from show of the HD camera and the 14 -140mm HD lens. There's very specific info out including my quote that it will shoot progressive and auto focus on the fly (from the US site) and that the codec is AVCHD - the logo is right on the back of the LCD. I can also tell you that it has a stereo mic as that is mounted right on top of the camera in another picture from Panasonic Japan.

Ger Griffin · September 16th, 2008, 06:43 PM

what about for final output to sd-dvd.
How would the footage 'fit in' with say a few sd shots from an xha1 or ex1 used in SD mode?
Aside from the mentioned complaints like rolling shutter and general lack of control,
are the arefacts so noticeable that even SD looks bad?
If anyone has tried this - downconverting/downscaling (preferably with a high quality method such as Aftereffects) , mixing/cutting together with other sd footage & burning to DVD could you please give opinions of the results.
Thanks.

Ken Hodson · September 16th, 2008, 09:46 PM

I would recommend checking out a few of the many clips available. You should be able to formulate your own opinion on what works for you based on what you see in this regard. I have read that vimeo clips can be D/L at full rez, but I can't figure out how, but there should be many shared native D90 clips that you can import into your own projects to check for SD output. If you do please share your opinion.

Jim Giberti · September 17th, 2008, 08:43 AM

Hey Ken,

Just sign up, which only required me to fill in my email and a password.
Then when you return to the screen the option to download hi-res appears on the right of the page.

Vincent Oliver · September 21st, 2008, 01:26 AM

I have been using the D90 for a couple of days now - just getting the feel of the camera. My first gut reaction, based on what I have shot, is that the movie feature is 18 - 24 months too early. Shooting on a bright sunny day here in london (yes, we have finally had some sunshine) it was near impossible to see the LCD viewfinder. I did have a nice reflection of my face though.

The footage is slightly jerky, probably due to shooting at 24p and as noted by others, the exposure has to be locked before shooting, otherwise you have an annoying fluctuation in exposure during the shot. I will post a full review of this camera at some stage this week, will be shooting some more today - just to make sure I am not doing anything wrong.

Paul Cook · September 23rd, 2008, 05:07 AM

I was looking forward to playing with the D90 but now it seems I wont bother. Its a shame but Im sure its only the start of things to come. I mean clearly this overnight revolution has caught the very revolution leaders (aka RED) off guard with their announcement that Scarlet has been scrapped in its current form and is going under the knife for complete re-invention.

Its very interesting times for indies!

Kurth Bousman · September 23rd, 2008, 11:10 AM

Vincent - will that be happening at your site?

Vincent Oliver · September 23rd, 2008, 12:07 PM

Yes it will be on my site, but I will post a link here as soon as we are ready. At the moment I am producing a DVD user guide for the D90 and am working 25 hours each day

September 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM	#272
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	My only questions regarding the D90 now concern the HDMI output. I'm looking forward to somebody capturing it and determining: * How's the picture look without compression? (Are the artifacts that we've seen due to subsampling the sensor, or due to M-JPEG encoding?) * Can you configure the HDMI output to be 720p (vs. 1080i)? What's the default? * Can you turn off the graphics overlay? (I believe not.) * Does the overlay still allow for Cinemascope or similar aspect ratios? Hopefully, somebody can do an HDMI capture and post some stills... __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 16th, 2008, 06:43 PM	#279
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	D90 for SD DVD stuff what about for final output to sd-dvd. How would the footage 'fit in' with say a few sd shots from an xha1 or ex1 used in SD mode? Aside from the mentioned complaints like rolling shutter and general lack of control, are the arefacts so noticeable that even SD looks bad? If anyone has tried this - downconverting/downscaling (preferably with a high quality method such as Aftereffects) , mixing/cutting together with other sd footage & burning to DVD could you please give opinions of the results. Thanks.

September 16th, 2008, 09:46 PM	#280
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I would recommend checking out a few of the many clips available. You should be able to formulate your own opinion on what works for you based on what you see in this regard. I have read that vimeo clips can be D/L at full rez, but I can't figure out how, but there should be many shared native D90 clips that you can import into your own projects to check for SD output. If you do please share your opinion. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

September 16th, 2008, 02:28 AM	#271
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Just as a thought. I don't see the D90 as a replacement to a video camcorder, it is however a useful camera to have for the odd drop in shot here and there, especially if you need to use wide angle lenses. Fortunately I didn't sell my collection of older style Nikkor lenses (18 lenses ranging from 20mm through to 500mm Reflex Nikkor). These will now all have a second life. I can see the potential for the D90, although two years down the line I am sure we will have something more spectacular. Regarding focusing via Live View, it wouldn't take the genius of a brain surgeon to work out how to attach an inexpensive X8 or X4 loupe to the rear LCD screen guard, something along similar lines to the flip down magnifier on the Sony EX3.

September 16th, 2008, 02:08 PM	#273
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	So this new Panasonic 4/3 camera is in fact going to use AVCHD and shoot progressively. That's confirmed so far. Any thoughts on AVCHD vs mjpeg? Obviously we're talking two different cameras but codec to codec.

September 16th, 2008, 02:49 PM	#274
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	What I've read so far the pany g1 doesnt yet do video at all - I believe they said something like "next generation" it's coming. I could be wrong but that's what I recall. After Photokina the smoke will clear alittle./k

September 16th, 2008, 04:33 PM	#276
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Hmm. This may be just the what Nikon needs to get into the video cam market. If they took their basis of this implementation and worked on it as a platform for their next post D90 model, it could be quite amazing. Also, I imagine a software upgrade could offer better video quality. Also, most important, enable at least full 4:2:2 1920x1080 via HDMI without icon overlays. The feedback from this forum alone could provide enough infomation for their engineers. It's appararent that Nikon wanted to take their video mode one step further with the D90. It's to bad that it may only tease us, especially with having the awesome capability of tight DOF, but no way of capturing this image in high quality video! I can see this concept easily turning upcoming cameras into hybrid Digital SLR / Pro video camera. Bring'em on!

September 17th, 2008, 08:43 AM	#281
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Hey Ken, Just sign up, which only required me to fill in my email and a password. Then when you return to the screen the option to download hi-res appears on the right of the page.

September 21st, 2008, 01:26 AM	#282
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	I have been using the D90 for a couple of days now - just getting the feel of the camera. My first gut reaction, based on what I have shot, is that the movie feature is 18 - 24 months too early. Shooting on a bright sunny day here in london (yes, we have finally had some sunshine) it was near impossible to see the LCD viewfinder. I did have a nice reflection of my face though. The footage is slightly jerky, probably due to shooting at 24p and as noted by others, the exposure has to be locked before shooting, otherwise you have an annoying fluctuation in exposure during the shot. I will post a full review of this camera at some stage this week, will be shooting some more today - just to make sure I am not doing anything wrong.

September 23rd, 2008, 05:07 AM	#283
Paul Cook Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 174	I was looking forward to playing with the D90 but now it seems I wont bother. Its a shame but Im sure its only the start of things to come. I mean clearly this overnight revolution has caught the very revolution leaders (aka RED) off guard with their announcement that Scarlet has been scrapped in its current form and is going under the knife for complete re-invention. Its very interesting times for indies!

September 23rd, 2008, 11:10 AM	#284
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Vincent - will that be happening at your site?

September 23rd, 2008, 12:07 PM	#285
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Yes it will be on my site, but I will post a link here as soon as we are ready. At the moment I am producing a DVD user guide for the D90 and am working 25 hours each day