I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions.

Ryan Elder · January 28th, 2021, 11:53 AM

Oh okay thanks. Well I've done ADR in the past, and would rather find an on set solution if possible. But how much further away can an 816 go in comparison? It didn't really give measurements in the article.

I've used the NTG-3 on other shoots, but no matter how accurate you are at aiming the mic to the mouth, if there is something in the background that the human ear can hear, it seems the mic will still pick it up though in my tests. Even if the dialogue covers it up from aiming accurately, that noise could still be heard when people are done speaking, and in the room tone.

But what I don't understand is, when people say wide shots have too much head room for booms, then why not just frame the wide so there is not so much headroom then?

Brian Drysdale · January 28th, 2021, 01:07 PM

As I mentioned, for interiors they would've often been using sound stages in studios. Taking out background noise during the silence in dialogue tracks is a job for post production.

They mentioned a distance in the last message. You really need to test the mic you're actually using.

They frame wide shots for how it looks, not for having a mic 6 inches above people's heads.

The easiest method would be to rent some radio mics, if the shot is going to be wide and you don't want to ADR.

In the end you'll have to do what your resources will allow and work within them. It doesn't help if you keep imposing your own restrictions.

Ryan Elder · January 28th, 2021, 01:10 PM

Oh it's just in the past I've had problems with radio mics, such as close rustling especially if you want the actors to move around more while speaking. So I was trying to find other ways. I guessed that master shots were framed because of how they look, not to get 6 inches above the actors head, but why not frame them in order to get those six inches, and put looks as secondary, since a master shot, without much headroom can still look good? Or won't it? I just feel that if you put sound in the framing first, and looks come second, then you don't not lavs as much, for each actor, unless I am wrong.

Greg Miller · January 28th, 2021, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

You've got the gear, why don't you test it?

Why bother to test anything when Ryan can get free advice here ... and then ignore it.

Greg Miller · January 28th, 2021, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

no matter how accurate you are at aiming the mic to the mouth, if there is something in the background that the human ear can hear, it seems the mic will still pick it up though in my tests. Even if the dialogue covers it up from aiming accurately, that noise could still be heard when people are done speaking, and in the room tone.

NO KIDDING! That is how microphones work. That is how sound waves work.

Q: How many people here are banging their heads on the wall?

Ryan Elder · January 28th, 2021, 01:50 PM

It was said on here before that if the shotgun mic is aimed accurately enough, then that really helps solve the problems. I was point out how the background noise will still be a problem no matter how accurately the mic is aimed. And then it was said that sound stages help.

I can try to find locations where background noise won't be much of an issue then hopefully.

Josh Bass · January 28th, 2021, 01:50 PM

All of us. Twice today I have started to type a long response and then deleted it 'cause really, what's the point? The less you invest in the threads and just sit back and watch, the more tolerable they become. I don't know how Paul hasn't ended up in a padded room by this point.

Josh Bass · January 28th, 2021, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

NO KIDDING! That is how microphones work. That is how sound waves work.

Q: How many people here are banging their heads on the wall?

All of us. Twice today I have started to type a long response and then deleted it 'cause really, what's the point? The less you invest in the threads and just sit back and watch, the more tolerable they become. I don't know how Paul hasn't ended up in a padded room by this point.

Brian Drysdale · January 28th, 2021, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I guessed that master shots were framed because of how they look, not to get 6 inches above the actors head, but why not frame them in order to get those six inches, and put looks as secondary, since a master shot, without much headroom can still look good? Or won't it?

You should be in radio. cinema is a visual medium, where the framing can imply a meaning to what's going on.

On your budget, the ADR method will work, just record the dialogue after the good take, so that the performances match. What's good enough for Fellini is good enough for you - he had to do it the hard way.

Yes, this more difficult than actually shooting the scene, Certainly it would take a lot less time!

Ryan Elder · January 28th, 2021, 02:10 PM

Oh okay I thought cinema was also an audio medium just as much as visual and that it was pretty much 50/50.

You mean record the dialog right after shooting, on the same shoot? I have tried that though, but the speed of the dialogue did not match later, because the speed and timing was different though. We tried a few takes of course, but none of them match, and you cannot tell until later in the editing though.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 28th, 2021, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

Q: How many people here are banging their heads on the wall?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay I thought cinema was also an audio medium just as much as visual and that it was pretty much 50/50.

You mean record the dialog right after shooting, on the same shoot? I have tried that though, but the speed of the dialogue did not match later, because the speed and timing was different though. We tried a few takes of course, but none of them match, and you cannot tell until later in the editing though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

A professional who does this for a living who has a wealth of experience would know the proper approach for any given situation. You on the other hand spend your day on internet forums discussing half bake ideas based on your limited amateur experiences, coming up with solutions to previous attempts that weren't executed properly. These discussions revolve around you trying to over plan and over compensate for all your short comings whether they be lack of experience or proper equipment/location/etc needed for a professional movie.

Read this out loud a 100x before posting again.
You've had problems in the past with booming, wireless lavs, and ADR. There's no where to hide, you simply aren't good at this. Almost all your problems and questions are variations of how do you do something a different way because you can't do it the accepted way. Why do you think most people don't attempt to film their own movies, because it's hard and it's expensive.

Ryan Elder · January 28th, 2021, 02:21 PM

Oh okay I read that but isn't it good to try to find different solutions if it wasn't properly executed before though? I can find a better location for next time, and don't shoot until I find one if that is better, and get better equipment as well, but I thought that less headroom in the wideshots, couldn't hurt either.

Brian Drysdale · January 28th, 2021, 03:06 PM

As the director your job is to create an engaging films that pulls the audience in. It;s not your job to worry about how the sound recordist is going to mic the scenes, it's your job to select a person that can carry out the job, no matter how you decide to shoot the film.

This isn't an aesthetic decision, you're painting yourself into a corner, as usual, over something that a competent sound person can do without even breaking into a sweat.

Ryan Elder · January 28th, 2021, 03:08 PM

Oh okay, it's just I've worked with other directors who didn't pay enough attention to this sound and I thought it suffered as a result so I didn't want to do that as well.

But I can just storyboard and not worry about it so much. it was brought to my attention that I should storyboard the movie in 2.00:1. However when it comes to DCP spec requirements, they only list 1.85 and 2.39 as options though. I'm having trouble confirming if 2.00 is an option for DCP, if anyone knows for sure?

Brian Drysdale · January 28th, 2021, 03:13 PM

Maybe the sound department was under equipped for the job that they were trying to do.

You've already asked about 2:1 aspect ratio in another very long thread, so go back and look though it.

January 28th, 2021, 11:53 AM	#136
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. Oh okay thanks. Well I've done ADR in the past, and would rather find an on set solution if possible. But how much further away can an 816 go in comparison? It didn't really give measurements in the article. I've used the NTG-3 on other shoots, but no matter how accurate you are at aiming the mic to the mouth, if there is something in the background that the human ear can hear, it seems the mic will still pick it up though in my tests. Even if the dialogue covers it up from aiming accurately, that noise could still be heard when people are done speaking, and in the room tone. But what I don't understand is, when people say wide shots have too much head room for booms, then why not just frame the wide so there is not so much headroom then?

January 28th, 2021, 01:07 PM	#137
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. As I mentioned, for interiors they would've often been using sound stages in studios. Taking out background noise during the silence in dialogue tracks is a job for post production. They mentioned a distance in the last message. You really need to test the mic you're actually using. They frame wide shots for how it looks, not for having a mic 6 inches above people's heads. The easiest method would be to rent some radio mics, if the shot is going to be wide and you don't want to ADR. In the end you'll have to do what your resources will allow and work within them. It doesn't help if you keep imposing your own restrictions.

January 28th, 2021, 01:10 PM	#138
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. Oh it's just in the past I've had problems with radio mics, such as close rustling especially if you want the actors to move around more while speaking. So I was trying to find other ways. I guessed that master shots were framed because of how they look, not to get 6 inches above the actors head, but why not frame them in order to get those six inches, and put looks as secondary, since a master shot, without much headroom can still look good? Or won't it? I just feel that if you put sound in the framing first, and looks come second, then you don't not lavs as much, for each actor, unless I am wrong.

January 28th, 2021, 01:50 PM	#141
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. It was said on here before that if the shotgun mic is aimed accurately enough, then that really helps solve the problems. I was point out how the background noise will still be a problem no matter how accurately the mic is aimed. And then it was said that sound stages help. I can try to find locations where background noise won't be much of an issue then hopefully.

January 28th, 2021, 01:50 PM	#142
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. All of us. Twice today I have started to type a long response and then deleted it 'cause really, what's the point? The less you invest in the threads and just sit back and watch, the more tolerable they become. I don't know how Paul hasn't ended up in a padded room by this point. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 28th, 2021, 02:10 PM	#145
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. Oh okay I thought cinema was also an audio medium just as much as visual and that it was pretty much 50/50. You mean record the dialog right after shooting, on the same shoot? I have tried that though, but the speed of the dialogue did not match later, because the speed and timing was different though. We tried a few takes of course, but none of them match, and you cannot tell until later in the editing though.

January 28th, 2021, 02:21 PM	#147
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. Oh okay I read that but isn't it good to try to find different solutions if it wasn't properly executed before though? I can find a better location for next time, and don't shoot until I find one if that is better, and get better equipment as well, but I thought that less headroom in the wideshots, couldn't hurt either.

January 28th, 2021, 03:06 PM	#148
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. As the director your job is to create an engaging films that pulls the audience in. It;s not your job to worry about how the sound recordist is going to mic the scenes, it's your job to select a person that can carry out the job, no matter how you decide to shoot the film. This isn't an aesthetic decision, you're painting yourself into a corner, as usual, over something that a competent sound person can do without even breaking into a sweat.

January 28th, 2021, 03:08 PM	#149
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. Oh okay, it's just I've worked with other directors who didn't pay enough attention to this sound and I thought it suffered as a result so I didn't want to do that as well. But I can just storyboard and not worry about it so much. it was brought to my attention that I should storyboard the movie in 2.00:1. However when it comes to DCP spec requirements, they only list 1.85 and 2.39 as options though. I'm having trouble confirming if 2.00 is an option for DCP, if anyone knows for sure?

January 28th, 2021, 03:13 PM	#150
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: I'm having trouble storyboarding a movie because of covid restrictions. Maybe the sound department was under equipped for the job that they were trying to do. You've already asked about 2:1 aspect ratio in another very long thread, so go back and look though it.