AC90 Sample Footage

Chris Harding · December 8th, 2012, 08:58 AM

Hi Bo

I also forgot about the quite poor auto white balance on the 130!! I found it tended to favour white walls in a Church as more yellow ..(the GoPro on the same Church balcony got it right but the 130 favoured yellow)

I also found that even outdoors green grass was not at all accurate compared to the HMC cameras ..Most scenes with lush green lawn tended to be a sort of "lime green" and didn't look right and had to be corrected ... that was an outdoor wedding and beautiful light too. If you are going to use a 130/160 then I think manual WB is mandatory!!! On my HMC's I don't think I have ever had to colour correct and I shoot mostly with AWT on so it's pretty accurate!!!

Chris

Tim Akin · December 8th, 2012, 10:34 AM

Last test with FX1000.

FX vs AC90 Low Light Test - YouTube

The AC90 holds up great until the lights are completely out and then it's only minor difference. You can't see the bottom of the balls well and the green ball looks blacker than the FX footage.

I believe the 90 will need less on camera light than the FX. It just seems like it doesn't take much light for the 90 to look good. That's what I'm hoping anyway. Now during the ceremony when you can't supply your own lught.....I'm unsure about that.

Chris Harding · December 8th, 2012, 06:56 PM

Hi Tim

That's a very respectable image at 22db ...I think I would definately go manual at the reception and lock the gain at 18db which will be really squeaky clean and then squirt just enough light on subjects to brighten them up. All my on-camera lights have dimmers on them so what I do is blast the light so at 90% zebra white shirts are totally blown out then back off the light until all the zebras are gone and that exposes very nicely...otherwise set zebras at 70% and back off until zebras are gone from faces and you should be almost perfect.

Don't be concerned about Churches...I have shot ceremonies with my HMC's which are the same sensitivity and only one Church tipped the 18db mark (it was all dark timber interior) and the back panel behind the couple did have a bit of noise.... If there is a rehearsal, go to it too!! I have done a Church where I was able to open side doors and that spilled a neat amount of light onto the couple and saved my bacon.

Even simple things like making sure the Church lights are, in fact, on and windows have any blinds or drapes clear.

The 90 is really amazing in low light at 22db you seriously cannot see any video noise!!!

Chris

Tim Akin · December 8th, 2012, 08:51 PM

Thanks Chris for the reception tips.The 90 only has 80% and 100% zebra settings. So I guess go with 80??

I always try to go to the rehearsal, that's saved my butt several times. This is a new church. This will be the first wedding in it I believe. I do know it doesn't have any windows. I just hope the bride does not want a candle light ceremony, being so close to christmas.

This will most certainly be a learning experience for me with the panny, always used Sony. I'm selling one of the FX1000's Monday and if the AC90 works out, I may replace the other FX with a 90. I would like for that second camera to have a longer reach than the 90 though. The FX's are 20x which is nice in those long churches.

Chris Harding · December 8th, 2012, 09:25 PM

Hi Tim

My attendance at rehearsals is purely a survey to see if I can spot any problem issues and meet the priest as well. Don't be afraid to ask him/her nicely if you can turn on as many overhead lights as possible at the ceremony..it DOES help a lot!!!

I gave up doing long shots at Churches and instead I have a GoPro on the back balcony or on a lightstand and hoisted at least 10' in the air ....My main cameras I now keep up front!! No further back than the 2nd row..otherwise you are filming more guests than bride...I stay on the right hand side of the aisle so I favour the bride's face and that way I never need more than 3 or 4X zoom to get tight shots of the couple during the vows.

I you can, take the 90, slip into the Church and see what the iris wants in manual ...with the 90 anything better than 24db will work great ..on my cams I like to be around the 10db mark and no more and there are very few Churches that are dimmer than that so I can't see you having any problems.

It will be nice to see the 90 in action doing a real live wedding shoot ....any comments on the audio control would be useful for potential 90 owners too!!! At Church ceremonies I normally put a mic on the groom and one on the reading lectern and that's enough.

Chris

Tim Akin · December 8th, 2012, 09:47 PM

Around here the pastor/priest don't control the lights, the BRIDE does or the brides mother.

I always try to set up like you say 2 or so rows back on the right side. My wife runs the other camera usually in the balcony or in the back. That's why I need the longer reach. The third cam (GH2) is the wide shot in the back also.

I will find out Friday night what the lighting will be. I plan on getting there early to allow time with the AC90!!

One thing I noticed about the ALC on the 90 that is different than the FX is, you can still adjust the level when using ALC. On the Sony, if ALC was on you had no control nor did you need to have control, it did a great job with audio. I will have to keep an I on that at the reception with the band. I know they are loud because we have filmed them several times.

Tim

Chris Harding · December 9th, 2012, 12:02 AM

Hi Tim

ALC on the 90 seems to have reverted to the older GS series cameras audio style that was called "manual + AGC" With cams like the GS400 and GS500 you set the audio manually BUT if the audio level exceeds 8db it clamps the output.

Doesn't the 90 have an "auto" position on the audio panel...the auto usually takes over totally and sets the audio level according to what it hears...that's what I use when the band/DJ starts up and it works well.

I'm assuming, like the 130/160 you set ALC on or off in the menu???? With the HMC's auto IS ALC and manual is full manual. If the 90 does have auto then I'm not sure if you can actually set it to auto and also turn ALC on but I have a feeling that ALC on each channel is reserved for manual operation only so for live bands, if you have an auto/manual switch there I would tend to just flick it to auto for live music

Chris

Bo Sundvall · December 9th, 2012, 11:06 AM

Hi Chris

Thank's for the info. I ill definately take these experiences into consideration while I keep on looking for the ultimate camcorder! :-)

Regards,

/Bo

Chris Harding · December 10th, 2012, 11:00 PM

Hi Bo

They are all a compromise sadly! What's good on one isn't good on another..I always try to find the best cameras for my shoot style and workflow and at prest the HMC82's work best for me (also half the price of the AC-130) The AC-90 is a pretty good compromise I think..for me it would need a shoulder mount rig so I would need to do some comprehensive aluminium construction and also find a decent magnifying loupe for the LCD....What I always find sad is that manuafacturers never provide any sort of mounting facilities for things like audio receivers and such so even my HMC's have a rail under them so I can have brackets for my receivers

Good luck and tell us what you decide on?

Chris

Don Bloom · December 11th, 2012, 06:47 AM

This might help makes someones decision process easier. B&H has the AC90 which has an MSRP of $1999.00 (USD) selling for $1849.99 (USD). That's a savings of $150.00 or enough to buy an extra Panasonic battery or some SDHC cards or an off brand battery and some cards or enough to take the better half to a nice dinner or enough to take the netter half to a decent dinner and go to the gaming establishment and make a donation...Your choice.
I'm just sayin'

0|0
\--/

Noa Put · December 11th, 2012, 09:00 AM

Here the camera should be available within a week but according to a shop owner most camera's where pre-ordered and probably 2 available to buy if ordered this week. Mm, very tempted to get one, should I ? :)

Tim Akin · December 11th, 2012, 09:07 AM

Dang! Anyone know if B&H has the 30 day price guarantee? Looked on there website under pricing and didn't see anything.

Tim

Tim Akin · December 11th, 2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Here the camera should be available within a week but according to a shop owner most camera's where pre-ordered and probably 2 available to buy if ordered this week. Mm, very tempted to get one, should I ? :)

Let you know Sunday Noa.

Tim

Tim Akin · December 11th, 2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

This might help makes someones decision process easier. B&H has the AC90 which has an MSRP of $1999.00 (USD) selling for $1849.99 (USD). That's a savings of $150.00 or enough to buy an extra Panasonic battery or some SDHC cards or an off brand battery and some cards or enough to take the better half to a nice dinner or enough to take the netter half to a decent dinner and go to the gaming establishment and make a donation...Your choice.
I'm just sayin'

0|0
\--/

Thanks Don!! Just called B&H and got $150 credit. That will more than pay for the extra battery and 16gig cards I bought a few days ago.

Tim

Chris Harding · December 11th, 2012, 07:32 PM

Hi Noa

Down here Global Media Pro still have the AC-90 as a "preliminary product" You cannot order it yet you can only request a notification as to when it will be in stock. Sounds like you are getting them earlier than us!

I think it will be a useful camera at weddings ..If I'm using my 2nd shooter it also means I can shoot cutaways while she is doing reverse angle shots or maybe just locked down behind the altar so I have a reverse angle shot of the vows all the time. I think it might also be great on the Stedicam and save my poor back! It's at least 1kg lighter than the HMC82 so it means a lighter sled weight...I noticed on the stedicam even the small weight difference between the 82 and AC-130 made flying the rig a lot easier so this should be a breeze.

Chris

December 8th, 2012, 08:58 AM	#61
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Bo I also forgot about the quite poor auto white balance on the 130!! I found it tended to favour white walls in a Church as more yellow ..(the GoPro on the same Church balcony got it right but the 130 favoured yellow) I also found that even outdoors green grass was not at all accurate compared to the HMC cameras ..Most scenes with lush green lawn tended to be a sort of "lime green" and didn't look right and had to be corrected ... that was an outdoor wedding and beautiful light too. If you are going to use a 130/160 then I think manual WB is mandatory!!! On my HMC's I don't think I have ever had to colour correct and I shoot mostly with AWT on so it's pretty accurate!!! Chris

December 8th, 2012, 10:34 AM	#62
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Last test with FX1000. FX vs AC90 Low Light Test - YouTube The AC90 holds up great until the lights are completely out and then it's only minor difference. You can't see the bottom of the balls well and the green ball looks blacker than the FX footage. I believe the 90 will need less on camera light than the FX. It just seems like it doesn't take much light for the 90 to look good. That's what I'm hoping anyway. Now during the ceremony when you can't supply your own lught.....I'm unsure about that. __________________ Tim Last edited by Tim Akin; December 8th, 2012 at 11:10 AM.

December 8th, 2012, 06:56 PM	#63
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Tim That's a very respectable image at 22db ...I think I would definately go manual at the reception and lock the gain at 18db which will be really squeaky clean and then squirt just enough light on subjects to brighten them up. All my on-camera lights have dimmers on them so what I do is blast the light so at 90% zebra white shirts are totally blown out then back off the light until all the zebras are gone and that exposes very nicely...otherwise set zebras at 70% and back off until zebras are gone from faces and you should be almost perfect. Don't be concerned about Churches...I have shot ceremonies with my HMC's which are the same sensitivity and only one Church tipped the 18db mark (it was all dark timber interior) and the back panel behind the couple did have a bit of noise.... If there is a rehearsal, go to it too!! I have done a Church where I was able to open side doors and that spilled a neat amount of light onto the couple and saved my bacon. Even simple things like making sure the Church lights are, in fact, on and windows have any blinds or drapes clear. The 90 is really amazing in low light at 22db you seriously cannot see any video noise!!! Chris

December 8th, 2012, 08:51 PM	#64
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Thanks Chris for the reception tips.The 90 only has 80% and 100% zebra settings. So I guess go with 80?? I always try to go to the rehearsal, that's saved my butt several times. This is a new church. This will be the first wedding in it I believe. I do know it doesn't have any windows. I just hope the bride does not want a candle light ceremony, being so close to christmas. This will most certainly be a learning experience for me with the panny, always used Sony. I'm selling one of the FX1000's Monday and if the AC90 works out, I may replace the other FX with a 90. I would like for that second camera to have a longer reach than the 90 though. The FX's are 20x which is nice in those long churches. __________________ Tim

December 8th, 2012, 09:25 PM	#65
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Tim My attendance at rehearsals is purely a survey to see if I can spot any problem issues and meet the priest as well. Don't be afraid to ask him/her nicely if you can turn on as many overhead lights as possible at the ceremony..it DOES help a lot!!! I gave up doing long shots at Churches and instead I have a GoPro on the back balcony or on a lightstand and hoisted at least 10' in the air ....My main cameras I now keep up front!! No further back than the 2nd row..otherwise you are filming more guests than bride...I stay on the right hand side of the aisle so I favour the bride's face and that way I never need more than 3 or 4X zoom to get tight shots of the couple during the vows. I you can, take the 90, slip into the Church and see what the iris wants in manual ...with the 90 anything better than 24db will work great ..on my cams I like to be around the 10db mark and no more and there are very few Churches that are dimmer than that so I can't see you having any problems. It will be nice to see the 90 in action doing a real live wedding shoot ....any comments on the audio control would be useful for potential 90 owners too!!! At Church ceremonies I normally put a mic on the groom and one on the reading lectern and that's enough. Chris

December 8th, 2012, 09:47 PM	#66
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Around here the pastor/priest don't control the lights, the BRIDE does or the brides mother. I always try to set up like you say 2 or so rows back on the right side. My wife runs the other camera usually in the balcony or in the back. That's why I need the longer reach. The third cam (GH2) is the wide shot in the back also. I will find out Friday night what the lighting will be. I plan on getting there early to allow time with the AC90!! One thing I noticed about the ALC on the 90 that is different than the FX is, you can still adjust the level when using ALC. On the Sony, if ALC was on you had no control nor did you need to have control, it did a great job with audio. I will have to keep an I on that at the reception with the band. I know they are loud because we have filmed them several times. Tim __________________ Tim

December 9th, 2012, 12:02 AM	#67
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Tim ALC on the 90 seems to have reverted to the older GS series cameras audio style that was called "manual + AGC" With cams like the GS400 and GS500 you set the audio manually BUT if the audio level exceeds 8db it clamps the output. Doesn't the 90 have an "auto" position on the audio panel...the auto usually takes over totally and sets the audio level according to what it hears...that's what I use when the band/DJ starts up and it works well. I'm assuming, like the 130/160 you set ALC on or off in the menu???? With the HMC's auto IS ALC and manual is full manual. If the 90 does have auto then I'm not sure if you can actually set it to auto and also turn ALC on but I have a feeling that ALC on each channel is reserved for manual operation only so for live bands, if you have an auto/manual switch there I would tend to just flick it to auto for live music Chris

December 9th, 2012, 11:06 AM	#68
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Chris Thank's for the info. I ill definately take these experiences into consideration while I keep on looking for the ultimate camcorder! :-) Regards, /Bo

December 10th, 2012, 11:00 PM	#69
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Bo They are all a compromise sadly! What's good on one isn't good on another..I always try to find the best cameras for my shoot style and workflow and at prest the HMC82's work best for me (also half the price of the AC-130) The AC-90 is a pretty good compromise I think..for me it would need a shoulder mount rig so I would need to do some comprehensive aluminium construction and also find a decent magnifying loupe for the LCD....What I always find sad is that manuafacturers never provide any sort of mounting facilities for things like audio receivers and such so even my HMC's have a rail under them so I can have brackets for my receivers Good luck and tell us what you decide on? Chris

December 11th, 2012, 06:47 AM	#70
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: AC90 Sample Footage This might help makes someones decision process easier. B&H has the AC90 which has an MSRP of $1999.00 (USD) selling for $1849.99 (USD). That's a savings of $150.00 or enough to buy an extra Panasonic battery or some SDHC cards or an off brand battery and some cards or enough to take the better half to a nice dinner or enough to take the netter half to a decent dinner and go to the gaming establishment and make a donation...Your choice. I'm just sayin' 0\|0 \--/ __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

December 11th, 2012, 09:00 AM	#71
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Here the camera should be available within a week but according to a shop owner most camera's where pre-ordered and probably 2 available to buy if ordered this week. Mm, very tempted to get one, should I ? :)

December 11th, 2012, 09:07 AM	#72
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Dang! Anyone know if B&H has the 30 day price guarantee? Looked on there website under pricing and didn't see anything. Tim __________________ Tim

December 11th, 2012, 07:32 PM	#75
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: AC90 Sample Footage Hi Noa Down here Global Media Pro still have the AC-90 as a "preliminary product" You cannot order it yet you can only request a notification as to when it will be in stock. Sounds like you are getting them earlier than us! I think it will be a useful camera at weddings ..If I'm using my 2nd shooter it also means I can shoot cutaways while she is doing reverse angle shots or maybe just locked down behind the altar so I have a reverse angle shot of the vows all the time. I think it might also be great on the Stedicam and save my poor back! It's at least 1kg lighter than the HMC82 so it means a lighter sled weight...I noticed on the stedicam even the small weight difference between the 82 and AC-130 made flying the rig a lot easier so this should be a breeze. Chris