24p questions

[Joe Kras]

OK, this is probably a silly question, but I haven't seen it addressed anywhere.

I know that when shooting PAL cameras in a 60 cycle environment that you have to worry about flickering/strobing, especially with flos.

Does this not apply to shooting 24p?

Is this because you are shooting 24p, and not 48i?

Joe Kras
St. Louis, MO

[Jon Fordham]

If you are having issues with flourescents, simply adjust the shutter speed to 1/60.

The DVX100 defaults to a 1/50 shutter speed when in both 24P and 30P with the shutter setting in the OFF position. Simply switching the shutter ON and setting it to 1/60 should eliminate any problems with 60 cycle Flo's without killing the natural motion blur.

[Joe Kras]

Thanks a lot!

Joe Kras

[Steve Febbraro]

Am considering purchasing the DVX100. Have been reading the messages here, and found them to be of great help.

What does the term, "2-3 pulldown" refer to?

Perhaps asking that question is akin to asking how much a Ferrari costs (if you have to ask you're not ready to buy one).

Thanks.

[Jon Fordham]

2,3 pulldown is in reference to how the progressively shot still frames are recorded to the interlaced video.

In other words, you are shooting 24 still frames per second. But the format you are recording to is recording 60 fields per second. So you need to fill up those 60 fields. In order to fill up those 60 fields with only 24 frames, the frames are "pulled down" into a redundant recording sequence.

Here's how it works:

The first frame 'A' is recorded 2 times corresponding to field 1 and field 2. The second frame 'B' is recorded 3 times corresponding to the next field 1 and field 2 and field 1. The third frame 'C' is recorded 2 times corresponding to field 2 and field 1. The forth frame 'D' is recorded 3 times corresponding to field 2 and field 1 and field 2. 2,3,2,3,2,3, etc, etc.

The only problem with this, is that the 'C' frame gets split between opposing fields. 2 and 1. Since fields 2 and 1 oppose each other, you don't have a complete frame of 'C'. This isn't an issue for standard NTSC editing or viewing. The motion looks the same as any other 24 frame acquired image pulled down for NTSC video screening. However, if you want to edit on a 24 frame timeline or transfer the 24 frame footage to another 24 frame medium, you need to recompress that 'C' frame to get it back. What Panasonic did to deal with this is offer a second 24P mode. The 24P Advanced mode uses a modified pulldown for recording. By doing a 2,3,3,2 cadence, the 'C' frame gets recorded an extra time so that it isn't split between opposing fields. 2,3,3,2 2,3,3,2, etc, etc. This solves the issue of the split 'C' frame but introduces a new and unique motion signature that is different than the normal 2,3,2,3 motion signature.

In order to work with the 2,3,3,2 Advanced pulldown cadence, you'll need a software solution that can remove the advanced pulldown and extract the 24 frames for editing on a 24 frame timeline. Once you finish cutting your masterpiece on a 24 frame timeline, you then can export the 24 frame sequence back to regular NTSC 2,3,2,3 pulldown 60i video, a 24 frame DVD, or an image sequence for HD upconversion or transfer to film.

But regardless of how it works, or which cadence you choose to work with, both get the job done.

[Ken Tanaka]

To supplement Jon's excellent description you may find Adam Wilt's site of benefit to keep your head from spinning. It features an illustrated explanation of the DVX100's various pull-down methods as well as a broader review of the camera's features and characteristics.

[Steve Febbraro]

Jon: Thank you so much for that detailed explanation. It will take me a bit to absorb the information, but I'm sure sooner or later it will click.

Ken: Thank you for the link. That, coupled with Jon's explanation makes things more clear.

[David Bass]

Sorry if im going over old territory but.....
I think I read that you can achieve [better quality] in scene file 6
[thin filmlike 24pa]especially when exporting to dvd.
I shot some sports footage recently in scene file 5, football infact,[thats soccer to those of you on the other side of the pond],Ilaid it out in a premiere 24fps timeline and used my canopus encoder to create an mpeg 2 file and exported that to dvd ....great.
So whats going to happen now if I chase this [better quality]dvd
in scene file 6.Will I need a programe like dv filmaker to pulldown my footage in PAL.[25fps to 24pa]
Just need to know a bit more on pulldown with regards pal as a lot of these posts are concerned with ntsc.
Many thanks in advance.

[Rob Lohman]

There is no pulldown for 25p->24p. Why would you want to?
The only reason to have your footage running at 24p is if you
are going to do an NTSC version. Just let the package interpret
the footage as 24p instead of 25p (DO NOT resample the fps).
You will need to stretch the audio though.

You can't see the difference between 24 or 25 fps. So if you
stay in PAL land, just stick to 25p!

[David Bass]

Thanks Rob
I was begining to wonder after 200 people had viewed my post but none until you, had responded,So to recap I can film in scene file 6 and lay that footage out in premiere.25fps timeline.
Apart from tweaking the audio that should be it.
i'll create a dvd from some more sports footage and let you know
the results.Once again many thanks for your help.

[Rob Lohman]

What is "Scene file 6"? I've never ever heard of that before.

Why would you need to tweak the audio if you stay at 25 fps?

Lets recap:

1. you want a 25p EUROPEAN DVD at PAL resolution: just make a 25 fps PAL project and change nothing

2. you want a 24p AMERICAN DVD at NTSC resolution: start a 24 fps NTSC project and load your 25 fps PAL footage. Change the interpretation framerate from 25 to 24 fps and stretch the audio.

Keep in mind that if you want to make a 24p NTSC DVD you
must create the correct DVD flags which Premiere can't do to
my knowledge (not sure).

But if you just want a 25p PAL DVD stick with method 1 and you
don't need to do anything. Make sure that when you render
your MPEG2 file and author your DVD you indicate that the
stream is progressive (interlacing is none or progressive).

[David Bass]

Sorry Rob If I wasnt Precise with my description.
F6 scene cine
Is position 6 on my dvx100 which is described as follows
on page 33 of the operating instructions from panasonic.
File containing the settings suited to cine-like shooting using the progressive25p mode
{the v detail freq item onthe scene file setting menu screen is set to THIN]
thanks for your replys
Ithink I will Be ok
any other tips on 25p pal then please let me know, I will post you results of dvd soon.
regards dave

[Marc Martin]

the v detail freq item onthe scene file setting menu screen is set to THIN

In THIN mode, there is some alliasing on a TV screen, but on a computer screen, there is more vertical resolution.

THICK mode: no alliasing on TV screen, but less resolution on computer screen.

[Peter Richardson]

Hey guys--While shooting my documentary on a couple interviews I accidentally forgot to put the cam in 24P Advanced mode (we're editing on Xpress Pro in 23.98 timeline) and shot in 24P Standard instead. The problem now of course is that we need to get this 24P standard footage into our 23.98 timeline. Can anyone recommed the best way to do this that will match the 24Advanced footage?

Also, in a couple scenarios we shot with a 2nd, 60i cam. We would also like to import this ftg into the project. Is importing into AE and then exporting at 23.98 the best solution? Thanks!

Peter

[Mike Zorger]

What settings do you guy use to make 24p look great outdoors?