Casio EX-F1 720p30 video- impressive!

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Daniel Thornton

Ok, I feel really stupid. I think I just figured out this camera and it’s simple. The light finally came on. Let’s see if I can explain it.

This camera is really two cameras in one.

Half press the shutter button to see what ISO the camera is using.

Here is a list of the other settings that you can change in the Menu/submenu items:

Focus> AF, Macro, MF or Infinity (focus button on side of camera)
Metering> Multi, Centered Weighted or Spot (right side of LCD screen)
AF Area> Spot, Tracking, or Free (right side of LCD screen)
EV Shift> -2 to +2 (right side of LCD screen)
ISO> Auto, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 (right side of LCD screen)
White Balance> AWB, MWB, ...ect (right side of LCD screen)
Sharpness> -2 , -1, 0 , +1, +2 (Menu-Quality-Sharpness)
Contrast> -2 , -1, 0 , +1, +2 (Menu-Quality-Contrast)
Saturation> -2 , -1, 0 , +1, +2 (Menu-Quality-saturation)
Color Filter> B/W, Sepia, Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Pink, Purple (Menu-Quality-Color Filter)
Color enhancement> Flesh tones (This is hidden. I believe it is used when you choose BS-Portrait or BS-Night portrait)
Portrait refiner/ noise filter> Off, +1, +2 (This is hidden. I believe it is used when you choose BS-Portrait or BS-Night portrait)
Dynamic range> Off, +1, +2 (Menu-Quality-Dynamic Range)
Anti shake> Off, Image AS, Camera AS, Auto (Menu-REC-Anti Shake)
Auto focus Assist Light> Off, On (Menu-REC-AF Assist)

All these settings can be manually changed for each shot if you wanted to. It would be nice if Casio would let me make my own Movie BS-mode.

While it is two cameras, when you look at the LCD/VF it behaves in a third way which I call VIEW mode. In VIEW mode the camera adjusts everything so YOU can clearly see the scene. This is often not the way a pix or recording will look.

Only when you half-press the shutter button OR press the LOCK button does the camera actually set itself for the correct AE and, optionally AF.

However, I have my doubts that the readings when you half-press the shutter button are the ones actually used for movie recording. I'll be running lab tests by RECORDING to actually test what is really being controlled.

So, while you list many items you can change. I think if you test each one BY A RECORDING you'll find they do NOT affect Movie mode. In other words, when you half-press the shutter-button it will look like they are in effect -- and they are if you take a still. But, other than WB, many are ignored when you press the Movie button.

Bottom-line in Movie mode (at least 720p30):
You can always use MF
You can always set WB
You can always lock AE
You can always turn-off flash.

For exposure, BS can only directly set shutter-speed. There is no direct control of Iris.
Which is why creating BS modes is critical and what I'm working on.

PS: Although you like to use MF, don't forget Continuous AF mode which eliminates the need to half-press the shutter-button. Just press LOCK.

PS: I would avoid zooming. It really is a sign of shoddy camera work and it unlocks AE which allows fluctuations. (Pretend you are using prime lenses.)

[Daniel Thornton]

Steve, thanks for the suggestions. They are great. I am glad you are testing also.

Michael, I use Sony Vegas 8.0 and yes I have Cineform. Vegas can use the Mov files straight from the camera. You need to make sure that Vegas is configured correctly. These files are 1.00 square (pixel aspect ratio). SD is upper field first (field order) HD is progressive. SD is 640 x 480. Also if you don't render them correctly the end video could look blurred

[Michael May]

Daniel,

I have Vegas 8 and Cineform. What is your workflow?

Do you use Cineform to convert the Casio .mov files to a Cineform .avi, then import that into Vegas? Or do you just import the Casio .mov files straight into Vegas as mentioned in your post?

Thanks for the tip on the project settings.

Michael

[Daniel Thornton]

My workflow depends on the video I shot. If it is SD, I start a new Project using the template NTSC DV (720x480, 29.970 fps). Then I change pixel aspect ratio to 1.0000 (Square), field order to upper field first, and width to 640. Then click ok. This sets up the Vegas project to the same as the video I will use. I like to add Event Pan/Crop 16:9 Widescreen TV aspect ratio so the footage looks like widescreen. Also I might add different Video event FXs to the video. When I render this, I use the free add on from Vasst "DVD prep". I will run this from the timeline rendering NTSC or FILM24p and always 4:3 aspect for SD footage. This will render the footage for DVD Architect so it will not recompress the file. I then add the mpg file to my DVD Architect project.

If I have shot HD 720, I start a new Project using the template HDV 720-30p (1280x720, 29.970 fps). I don't change any default settings. I also render off the timeline using "DVD Prep" NTSC or FILM24p and always 16:9 widescreen. This will render the footage for DVD Architect so it will not recompress the file. I then add the mpg file to my DVD Architect project.

I am not using Cineform at this time.

Here is a link to some video I shot. You can download the footage. Most of it is stright from the F1.
Casio F1 on Vimeo

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Daniel Thornton

HD is progressive.

Except when its 1080i60 -- where it is top field dominant.

Under OS X: Avid Media Composer, Premiere Pro CX3, and iMovie HD 06. FCP also seems to work, but must check more. iMovie 08 requires conversion via MPEGstreamclip.

I'm sure EDIUS will work as well, but must check.

PS: Think of the camera as 6 blocks:

CMOS chip
Image Processor
JPEG compressor
AVC compressor with audio
SD card controller
Playback system

The Image Processor uses one set of rules for Stills. However, when you press the Movie record button it uses another set of rules.

Movie rules: YUV rather than RGB output; 601/709 colorspace rather than sRGB; limited range of shutter-speed; perhaps limited ISO; different gamma, etc.

Therefore, the IP can use, modify, or ignore the settings you make. It's not certain yet that the read-out you see reflects the IP using Still or Movie rules.

Bottom-line, you are very correct -- it is two different cameras.

[Michael May]

Daniel,

I'm new to using Vimeo, so I have one follow up question: Is the Quicktime download link the file straight from your camera or does Vimeo alter, change or compress it when you upload it?

If its the file straight from your camera it appears to work flawlessly! I tried importing the file straight into Vegas and it worked perfectly. I used Cineform Neo HD to convert it to a Cineform .avi and that worked as well.

Thanks for all your help,

Michael

[Steve Nunez]

Daniel, Steve and the rest- you guys are really getting into this camera- very well done and thanks for the great info!

I really hope Casio comes out with a newer model with further improvements....thanks again guys!

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Michael May

Daniel,

I'm new to using Vimeo, so I have one follow up question: Is the Quicktime download link the file straight from your camera or does Vimeo alter, change or compress it when you upload it?

Can I suggest using ExposureRoom.con rather than Vimeo. ER supports 720p30 while Vimeo supports 720p24. That means the Vimeo folks delete 6 frames every second from your video so it stutters. Also a much nicer group of people to work with.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

However, I have my doubts that the readings when you half-press the shutter button are the ones actually used for movie recording. I'll be running lab tests by RECORDING to actually test what is really being controlled.

Confirmed last night. In dark room readout was 1600, f/3.?, and 3 SECONDS.

Obviously a movie can't be shot with a 3 second exposure.

I could see the scene thru the LCD.

As soon as I pressed Record Movie, the LCD went nearly black. So the IP must have reset the shutter speed to the slowest movie shutter which may be 1/60th. (Sony CMOS seem to use 1/60th as the slowest.)

It may also automatically reduce ISO to 800. Why? Excessive gain noise may screw-up AVC compression so they may prevent it by limiting gain.

Bottom-line, what you see in the read-out is not always what the video is being shot at.

Therefore, the BS modes may not do in Movie mode exactly what the settings show.

This will require careful tests using charts to sort-out just what the video camera does.

Of course, one does really need to know. :) As long as one can lock AE and AF and set WB -- if you get good pix, be happy.

[Steve Mullen]

Nearly black movies -- why and how to avoid.

I've been getting too many all black movies when shooting indoors. Finally figured out how to avoid.

Do NOT press shutter-button half way. If you do and then press LOCK you'll get a black movie. It seems that when you turn on the camera, then press the shutter button half way AND the flash pops up, even if you close the flash or turn it off, somewhere in the camera it registers a flash "should" be used.

Now when you press Lock, the camera still thinks a flash will be used.

Then when you press Movie Record, it seems to calculate the exposure based on there being a flash -- which is both wrong (because you turned it off) and absurd for a movie.

Therefore, you should simply press LOCK and start shooting. You can use either MF or Continuous AF.

This only needs to be done in low light, but it can always be used. It saves pressing the shutter button.


PS: Interesting find. iPhoto can mount the SD card via USB. Now you see thumbnails of all your clips and stills. You can preview your clips. Select the items you want and the files are rapidly imported. (iPhoto will play H.264/AVC.)

Now in iMovie HD 06, you can drag in all clips from iPhoto Import Event into the Timeline. They will be converted to AIC. Now select all clips in the Timeline and drag to the clip Pane (Bin).

The advantage of this process is that one gets to review clips while they are still on the camera and then import only those you want. And, at the same time select the stills you want imported into iPhoto. Where they can also be used in iMovie HD 06.

By using AIC rather than H.264/AVC, even on a laptop motion is really smooth. (Blows away trying to work with AVCHD.) Export will be either AIC (to iDVD) or H.264/AVC (to ExposureRoom) or ProRes 422 (to DVDStudio Pro) or M-JPEG (to windows for burning BD with 5.1 sound).

PS: iMovie renders FX to AIC which is a major bummer compared to iMovie 08. The key question is how much quality is lost going through AIC.

[Daniel Thornton]

Steve, Great tips keep them coming. I am looking forward to what else you discover.
I will check out ExposureRoom.

[Daniel Thornton]

This looks like what is happening in the F1 also. I will test this chart against the F1.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_man...ex_s500/BS.pdf

[Daniel Thornton]

I just found this.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_man...EXF1_BS_US.pdf

[Steve Mullen]

This is a major find! Wow!

Once again Japan supports its buyers while the USA division remains clueless. Just like the JVC consumer group.

By the way the "20" shows the number of still you remaining to take while shooting a movie. Not in manual. BUT, what settings are used for the Stills?

[Ralph Smith]

Originally Posted by Jay Birch

Steve.... I have both the d90 and ex-f1... unless you are desperate for the "film look" then go with the casio.

The nikon is just crap in my opinion... people who own it rock on about how the footage looks, but I don't think it comes close to decent 720p except for a few tripoded shots here and there. The jello effect is unusable and that is only the first of many problems.

The Casio, you can pretty much gauruntee 720p quality in most conditions. It is alot more video looking though, but at $1000 or so, it's quality is very, very good... not too far off my hvx200, especially in good light.

Hi Jay
I was browsing around and saw your comment on having both the F1 and the D90. I've been using the F1 quite a bit and trying to get the hi-speed down for weapon testing at 300-600 fps (had the fh20 but video was too small). Is there any definitive info in one place on using the F1? Also what is the prefered editing program, as the video is making some viewers dizzy even when played back in the camera. I have a D90 but havn't used it since I picked up the F1, I can return the D90 to Costco in the next 60 days. What are your thoughts on the F1 compared to the D90 for video? I have a HVX200 but am in the process of learning how to use it.