Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

As long as the record button is not pressed, you'll get full 4K output from the HDMI.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Never said it would. It's used to monitor, that's it.

1. I assume that too
2. The downmixed HD content is, as far as I know, 4:2:2
3. I seem to recall my plasma reporting 1080 60p
4. Not sure, I hate 24p so I couldn't tell you.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Amen to that. I wish I had a $1 for every 'incompatible' question I've seen asked regarding Apples. There are just so many more editing programs for the PC than the Apple and most don't have the issues I see Apples having.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Playing with more 24p tonight. I need to make a correction:

When shooting you are shooting 24p, you need to be careful with rolling shutter skew at "all" shutter speeds!

I don't normally shoot 24p on any camera I own. Just threw the AX100 into 24p tonight and shot a bit. Ehh...I would only use it in desperate low light situations. You get about a 3db noise advantage with 24p 1/24 shutter over 30 1/30 shutter.

Anybody wonder if 24 frame at 60Mbp/s givs a slight compression advantage over 30p? That's a 6 frame drop...20% improvement?? Prolly not because of Long GOP structure?

CT

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

You must be joking! First, I have Windows so I know why I never use it. Still not useable at 8.1. Truly a hated OS.

Second, I have Vegas so I know why I never use it. Were I on Windows I would use Edius because at least a few pros use it and it works in real-time. And, while every Tom, Dick, and Harry makes an NLE for Windows -- they are junk aimed at newbies who only want to spend $49.99 -- on sale at 29.99. If one is serious, it's Media Composer -- which I have on the Mac.

I've reviewed camcorders for decades and have never had a problem with any Apple product working with a camera's output. Also, professional magazines do not want one to write about Window's workflow because they know most post-houses use OS X. Apple owns the media creation business.

Also would never give-up ProRes. Nor the reliability of Apple hardware (#1) and the freedom from viruses.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

What if you want FHD?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Shooting at 24fps, images are taken with longer intervals BETWEEN CAPTURES than when shooting at 30fps. So moving objects will have moved more. I suspect this is why you see more RS.

RS is tied to the shutter-speed system.

Again each image will be more different at 24p than at 30p so they will be harder to compress.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Perhaps you might try setting the camera to the HD mode?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Interesting tidbit on bitrate.....

Shot many 30p 4K test clips today. Some were very slow pans, others had fairly fast zoom ins an outs and somewhat "rushed" pans.

I loaded them into "Bitrate Viewer" and plotted each files bitrate across the length of each.

Files show a very fairly constant average of 50-55 M/bps. However, some spikes did actually touch the 70+ Mbp/s mark! 60-65 Mbp/s peaks were not uncommon either. The absolute lowest rate I found was 48 Mbp/s.

Interesting. It's a fairly "dynamic" VBR codec.

CT

Edit: New tests shooting my Dogs in backyard - Spikes went as high at 81 Mbp/s with "routine" spikes in the high 60's and low 70's. The results are nice! I'm beginning to losing my fear of this CODEC. ;-)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Say what? I've been using windows for years on a number of computers, and ever since Windows XP it's been solid as a rock. If you've had issues, don't blame windows, blame something in your computer's configuration.

Windows 8.1 is no different, solid as a rock. I've used Edius in all its iterations and recently, some of the 'lesser' programs for 4K, like Power Director 12 and Sony's free program that comes with the AX100. They're all very stable and, like all editing programs, have their pros and cons.

But I agree with Mark. As a frequent reader of many forums, it seems there are far more issues with compatibility from Mac users. I have nothing against Apple, but it's hard not to notice obvious patterns.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Thinking more about performance -- I really doubt Vegas plays XAVC UHD at a steady 30fps with filters and transitions.

In fact, short of FCP X on a MacPro, I doubt anything can play XAVC UHD at a steady 30fps.

And, that's the key! It's not importing or editing. That's no big deal to talk about. Even iMovie can do this.

The issue with EVERY NLE is perfect UHD playback -- especially with filters and transitions. The ONLY solution is to play/edit proxy files.

And, IF your NLE supports proxy video -- which yours may not -- your NLE will take time to convert XAVC UHD to a proxy. No way to avoid this. PC or Mac -- it will take time. Only the speed of the CPU matters.

So the wait has nothing to do with Apple as some have suggested. Media Composer under Windows will behave the same as under OS X. You will wait for XAVC to be transcoded to DNxHD.

FCP X is very different as it automatically makes proxy files. While this must take time, ONE CAN EDIT WHILE WAITING.

The problem I mentioned was with filters. It only occurs with those NOT written by Apple. REPEAT: there is no problem with Apple filters! Some non-Apple filters were never written/tested with 4X larger proxy files. These will get fixed.

So the 2 of 3 NLE's used at post houses, MC and FCP X, I have confirmed do work. I now must check Premiere -- which is the third NLE.

======================

UPDATE:

Premiere Pro CS6 is amazing. It simply imports XAVC UHD and when viewing is set at 1/4th resolution -- which looks fine on your computer monitor -- it plays just fine. I knew it was good for DSLR media, but it seems perfect for XAVC. This might be ideal for the AX100 if you can stand Premiere.


In iMovie, if you check Full-Optimize XAVC UHD will be transcoded to AIC UHD and after that editing is very good considering you are editing UHD fully in real-time as iMovie NEVER renders anything. You must, of course, wait for the transcode to finish.

So everything seems to be fine on all four OS X based NLEs. I must relearn Premiere I guess.


If you work with other NLE's, post your workflow and results.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I have XP on one system and loved it. It was a great OS and folks continue to love it! But, you must have read the years of tirades by XP users against Vista, 7, 8, and it continues with MS still not getting things right with 8.1. (I have another system with Vista and it is a total pig.)

Typical stories: Download Windows 8.1 Update 1 Early, If You Dare; HP Bringing Back Windows 7 'By Popular Demand'; Start Menu Could Return to Windows in Spring 2014 -- That's probably wishful thinking; Windows 8 Support Will End in Two Years; Looks like the "Metro" apps will invade the desktop in the next Windows 8 update; Microsoft Pays Out $100,000 for Windows 8.1 Flaw. These are from a Tom's site dedicated to Windows. MS is now paying folks to leave XP.

It didn't used to be this bad. I've owned and used -- and built PCs -- but since XP something has gone wrong inside MS. Now they hope Windows 9 will make folks happy.

As far as folks posting problems -- I've spent the last few years focused on 4K and Digital Cinema. JVC released 4k OS X software that generated ProRes. All the deBayering software does the same. And, of course BM cameras shoot Apple's ProRes. Sony CineAlta have OS X applications. So in these worlds Apple is the most common computer.

And yes, 24fps is the only frame-rate used. :)

But, were BD and YouTube to offer 1080p60 -- and if Apple TV supported 1080p60, I would be very willing to give-up 4K. I don't think Apple says which YouTube stream Apple TV uses.

Another Apple bitch. Suddenly Safari does not provide the stream selector. Apple, simply says it uses the stream that's best for you! I think they want to prevent you from knowing iTunes doesn't support UHD. So I downloaded Chrome which still gives me the selector. I love Macs, but I really hate the way Apple treats you as an idiot. And, my Samsung Note 2 is so advanced over my wife's new iPhone.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I have Edius Pro 7 ( my main editor), Vegas Pro 12 and CS6( which I really do not use but comes with the Suite that I have mainly used for Photshop and AE ). I have not tried CS6 with either XAVC or XAVC-S but both Vegas 12 and Edius will play XAVC fine, XAVC-S needs to be edited with Vegas at Draft/half for reasonable frame rate and Edius will just play XAVC-S 60P with the buffer just hovering on 2 ( much like running multicam with 5 cameras in my case) with one colour filter setting. Placed in a 1920x1080 project ( my main use for 4k anyway) Edius will again just play with buffer at about 2 with occasional falter to playback. Quite usable for editing. Edius will generate a proxy automatically but I always have this turned off. I have converted to HQX which takes about 1 1/2 realtime on my system and then will run easily in realtime of course with a full resolution file. This what I did for HDV and AVCHD when they first came out and the NLE's of time could not manage native files in realtime. I expect with faster processors and improvements to the NLE's things will progress as before !!!!

My PC is an i7 3770K, 16G RAM, 6 HD of about 5T, GTX560 running WIN 7.

Ron Evans

Edit: I should point out that other than the XAVC files( which were from the PXW-Z100 ) I downloaded from the internet that play just fine, all the files I refer to are from my FDR-AX1 which are 60P 150Mbps files

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I guess you're not familiar with Edius Pro 7. That will play XAVC files at a steady 30fps.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Couldn't disagree with you more. I have had XP, Windows 7 and now Windows 8.1 on a number of machines and they are all rock solid. In the editing world we're looking for stability and since XP, we've gotten that. In all the machines I've had from XP on, I really think I could count the crashes from all the machines on one hand.

What people are largely bitching about with Windows 8 is that it behaves as 2 different OS. The home screen with the tiles and the desktop. But you can enable the OS to boot right in to the desktop if you don't want the tiles. Easy business.

People are never comfortable with a new OS, especially one that looks so different. I happen to like it, but that's me. However the major point is, and I'll repeat it, the OS is rock solid and has been ever since we got rid of Vista (and there I do agree with you, it was unstable and not fun).

BTW, what I do envy Mac users for is their monitors. I've yet to see a monitor that I can use for a PC that looks as good as the 27" IMac I watched the other day, as I tried my AX100 files. They were just stunningly beautiful.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Theoretically maybe but in practice, I've found matching is often difficult between cameras. Worse across brands. You are always better off capturing it as close as possible then fine tune as needed in post. The best results are from tweaking the B camera to look as close as possible to the A camera. That's why.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I would simply use MWB to get as close as possible. I can't see the color controls from past Sonys that give you 3 notches plus or minus as being such a help. I guess everyone has their own favorite approach. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I'd add that what constitutes "matching" can also be subjective - I'm reminded of a movie (can't recall the name) where the coloration changed to match the "mood" of the main character - so one scene would be "warm" (red/orange) the next "cool" (blue), and then some GREEN (for "unbalanced"?)...

When trying to match cameras between brands, there's usually still a bit of "signature" that's tough to get rid of... not saying impossible, but a lot of work at best. I've fiddled with it, seen others do it, and I can usually spot the "brand differences". Sony has a look I "like", but I won't complain about Canon or Panny... for the most part (there are specific things I "don't like", but they are minor/picky!).

I've had decent luck with staying "brand specific", even across lines like Handycam and Cybershot, the "look" seems to stay "close enough" that minor adjustments will do the trick. Variations in resolution quality are another matter, but aren't AS noticeable (thus my hopes that the AX & RX will match up "ok"). Most importantly, they both seem to have a "pop" to the images, so maybe it'll work until the RX10M2 shows up with 4k enabled!

EDIT:
I favor Ron's approach of using matched preset WB levels, or if you have the time to do the "one press" WB (which gets tricky!). That way if you're using same brand, the WB presets should be "fairly" consistent... I know the WB menus for the RX's can be pretty "deep", and I've never completely figured them out!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Did some audio tests today with a BeachTech adapter. I'm VERY impressed with the preamps that Sony gave the AX100.

Leaving audio levels on "auto" created very hot levels that will breath and pump under a heavy handed AGC circuit.This circuit tends to peg digital "0" pretty hard with a hard limiter at the top.

Moving it to "manual" appears to kill the AGC completely. It seems to be a "true" manual and not a "quasi" manual control. The top limiter seems to still be there, starting at maybe around -6b or so? (Great job Sony!)

This doesn't seem to be the typical "hissy" audio circuits that Sony has enjoyed placing on "Handycams" in the past. This one is VERY clean. It's actually surprisingly clean and very Beachtech friendly. (Awesome Job Sony!)

I'm pleasantly surprised that Sony allowed this for $2K. In years past, they have always wanted to degrade the bottom market, 1/8 inch audio inputs with tons of high noise floor. This was done to drive more users into XLR handle models.

This AX100 seems to be breaking ALLOT of the old, traditional Sony marketing rules!

Whoever in in charge today at Sony camera design,...I like their new thinking these days. (the RX10 was another "rule breaker" too)

Hmmm,...what would a possible the "pro" sister model add? (besides XLR top handle)

CT

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Cliff, they probably fired the guy by now! :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

At the risk of starting a "platform war", here's my take on Apple vs. M$... as someone who builds and repairs computers somewhat regularly...

If your computer is "unstable", there may be a hardware issue - make sure that's not the problem first. Then it can be a driver issue... update or roll back as needed. Of course there are poorly programmed programs that crash, either use a different one or report the bug until it gets fixed. Lots of crap gets "downloaded" if you're not careful.. Then there's the dreaded malware/virus, more prevalent on Windows because it's a bigger target... or perhaps worse yet, the many "anti" virus programs that slow a computer down ALL the time, almost as bad as the "disease"!

Plenty of reasons a computer may be "unstable", but all resolvable. I'm sure Apple has bugs and glitches too, but by maintaining a "closed ecosystem" (more on that shortly), they reduce exposure to that.


XP was a pretty decent OS, but of course is outdated. Vista was pretty universally hated, Win7 "fixed" most of the bugs and annoyances, and works pretty well. Win8... not sure what you can say about the Play-Skool interface, but the OS itself is actually faster than W7, and stable - W8.1 broke many things I had working on W8, took a while to sort them all out, I was not amused... and to make W8/8.1 more serviceable, installing "Start Menu 8" (free, downloadable) restores the familiar and usable W7 interface, while retaining the W8 speed underneath. I've forgotten the ugly "metro" interface entirely on a W8.1 Ultrabook with Start Menu 8!

Here's part of the problem, Windows is a reasonably "open" system, lots of hardware and software, and sometimes there are just incompatibilities, so Windows gets the blame for a 3rd party goof... Apple keeps their system relatively closed (no Flash for you because it crashes!), proprietary and most importantly priced accordingly... I don't want to pay 2-3x more for a fruit on my box/lid/cover, but it's fine if others do.


The WORST thing we have today is what I call "OTF" (On The Fly... or... Oh... That's F%#!"d) programming - with the web and apps, programmers no longer thoroughly test code, and all too often, users of today are "Alpha testing" (not even fit for "beta"). Unstable glitchy code is not necessarily the fault of the computer, or the OS, and there's PLENTY of it out there - "pretty" whiz bang interfaces that don't work well, or are slow, or don't work at all - see them every day anymore... but it's the state of "programming", like it or not. Bad code is bad code, AKA "garbage in, garbage out", something that has always been true.

Asking a laptop to do the job of a high powered desktop usually doesn't work out the way one hopes, I'm still fiddling with it, hoping maybe it can happen! But I know that at the same time, I'm spec'ing a new desktop so 4K will be comfortable...

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Well, the guy at Sony who inspired the RX series seems to be pushing the envelope, maybe they're figuring out that going bankrupt is not a good option, and creativity is needed!

If you think about it, they HAVE to do something, the consumer market is dead/dying, at least when it comes to the traditional Cybershot and Handycam retail sales. IF there is a market left, it's "enthusiasts" who are far more particular about features, specs, and all the petty details (yeah, here's looking at US, guys...).

I don't want to spend big $$ on a "big" camera... but a smaller camera (with a relatively smaller price tag), with excellent image quality... yeah, if I can produce "professional" looking CONTENT with it, without breaking the bank, sure, I'm interested.


The same old "lines" that ALL the manufacturers were releasing, with little tiny incremental "upgrades", at least as far as the final image results, were not "selling" - no compelling "unique-ness"! Even GREAT cameras just were not that much more interesting to todays consumer to get them to sell. Last years (or the year before, or the year before) model does fine for most people!

Sony broke all the "molds" with the RX100, and it was good... The M2 is incrementally "better", and still good... the RX10 completely changes things as far as hybrid cameras go, and it's VERY good... The AX100 looks to do the same thing for the video camera... Sony is trying to find what WILL sell, as any company must do to survive!

IF I were the other manufacturers, sitting around rehashing the same thing they made 5 years ago, I'd be worried right now - Sony has created entirely NEW market niches with NO directly competing products, even as the old niches slowly dry up and disappear. The only "complaint" seems to be that these new higher performing cameras are "kinda expensive" (yes, yes they are... at least 'til you evaluate what you get in the package). But it certainly makes for good times for the end user!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

What's interesting is that my little Mac Air with it's dual core i7 and HD5000 gpu on Windows 8.1 can play the 4k footage from my AX100 camera at full speed no problem, it looks buttery smooth. But *only* if I use Windows Media player to play back the video files. The problem is that most software has limited and/or poor gpu support so like using VLC, Media Player Classic, etc results in choppy playback because they have poor gpu support but Windows Media player fully supports the HD5000 gpu in my laptop hence playback works like a dream, my cpu use is only at 3% when playing the raw 4k files from the AX100 with WMP and they play perfect. Vegas Pro 12 alas seems to also have poor gpu support for the AX100 4k files so the cpu gets pegged at 100% and the result is choppy playback. I'm hoping Vegas 13 will have much better gpu support because the HD5000 gpu clearly can play back 4k video files at full speed as WMP shows, Vegas Pro just needs the proper gpu support.


There's no point in getting into anecdotal comparisons. I mean I can post how when I unplug the thunderbolt to ethernet adapter on my wife's Macbook Pro that it crashes OSX and causes it to reboot whereas Windows 8.1 runs perfectly doing that on the same laptop, or I can say how driver support on OSX is terrible compared to Windows 8.1 from our experience on the same laptop, etc, etc, but what's the point. My experience with OSX is quite frankly that's it's limited and less stable than Windows 8.1 which works like a champ. Mercifully I'm not required to use Apple software for my business which is good because it would be exponentially harder to run my 5 websites on anything other than Vegas Pro since scripting support is an absolute must. But that's my experience, yours will vary.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I agree. That's why I asked about the controls in the AX100. The 5DMII and GH3 had enough controls that I could match them across brand to a EX1r. So I'll ask again: Are there no controls on the color of the AX100?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I have to jump in here and make a simple observation...

Editing 4K video.. on ANY laptop? Seriously? A laptop is the wrong tool for editing video.
Sure, go ahead.. tell us which apps and on which OS work and don't work... but if you are editing 4K video, it should be on a fast workstation with a 30" screen.

I could go on and on about what makes a good workstation... SSD drives, tons or RAM, etc.

But the GPU topic certainly is very important. Maybe some are not aware, but on the latest OS X — there is a new feature that allows apps to take advantage of multiple GPUs. That means the app needs to be written specifically to take advantage of multiple GPUs. The first two apps are Final Cut Pro and Motion.

Jump ahead to the point... there have been many bench tests now available to show even 2 medium quality video cards, like the ATI 5770 (old cards!) will give really good results in Final Cut Pro. By the way, you need a special benchmark app that actually "sees" that you have 2 video cards installed for benchmark tests, there is a testing app called "BruceX Test.xml" Google it, it is found on a popular Final Cut Pro users site...

I don't see Sony Vegas or even Avid moving in this direction yet, although Adobe Premiere has announced they are moving from Nvidia optimized code to the faster OpenCL code on the AMD (ATI) video cards.. and will also make use of seeing dual video cards.

Laptop users please note.. you can't put 2 video cards in a laptop!

The limit is not just 2 cards either... Final Cut Pro and Motion will combine as many cards as you throw at it. It combines the GPUs of all the cards. The limit has been on the motherboards, as Mac Pros only have two 16X PCIe slots.

I see that Sonnet has just announced a 4U rack unit for the newest MacPro... which allows you to ADD PCI slots! This means you can add even more GPU power to a stock MacPro, yes the garbage can model with the "no PCI slots".

If you want to work in real-time for 4K video... it takes a full-blown workstation with multiple video cards. It's expensive. So are lenses.

Someone mentioned that Macs are 2-3 times more costly than the same PC... not true. Get facts correct. Macs tend to be only about 10% more expensive with the exact same motherboards and exact RAM and video card configurations. So for 10% more cost, you can run Windows and OS X smoothly on a Mac. You only get Windows on a PC. There is a Hakintosh OS where you can run Mac apps on a PC, but unless you like to rebuild your system once a month... it's not worth the time in a working environment.

For me, Final Cut Pro is the only game in town for editing. And I like DaVinci Resolve for color grading. So it is a full blow Mac workstation for me. I have been waiting now 2 months for these Sony AX100s to come out... about to purchase 2 of them. I consider them "cheap" B cameras.. I want to see how far I can push them, especially in grading. My first step into 4K files, and the new MacPro is just another expensive I will need to spend to make it all work.

And my last comment... my workflow has previously been to send HDMI signal and record external to SSD to ProRes. Then I just open all files in Final Cut Pro. But I see with these Sony cams, the HDMI out is not useable.. but I am still going to transcode all my 4K footage to ProRes before editing. I will have to wait until Sony comes out with the "pro" HDMI features on the next cam.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

My laptop is a Asus G750J.

i7 Haswell
2 1tb WD Black drives in Raid 0 config
16 gigs of RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Sony Vegas 12

I thought for sure that I could only edit 4K on my desktop. I was pleasantly wrong! For some crazy reason that I still don't understand, the AX100 Long GOP has been fairly easy! It's nowhere the pain I expected it to be.

Vegas 12, I'm told, doesn't even really support the GTX 770 yet. It's offloading the work to the CPU?

No, it's not as smooth as XDCAM MPEG 2. However, all I can say is that it's much, MUCH better than I expected and certainly workable.

CT

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

There is a cinematone profile that raises color level and changes the gamma a bit as well as presenting a slightly warmer color rendition.

But if you're looking for a 3 click up or down on color level, no, you won't find it on the AX100. I thought that was clear.

There are, of course, the traditional AWB, MWB, indoor, outdoor and fluorescent presets.

You can read the online manual if you'd like to know other details about the camera.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I connect my laptop to a 30" screen when I'm working from home, and the laptop lets me disconnect and work anywhere which to me in invaluable. I have a desktop as well that does all my rendering overnight, but for general video work I can't be chained to a desk, I need to be able to work wherever.


Nah not really, there's enough gflops and hardware h264 decoding support in many gpu's that they can handle 4k video easily. Like my hd5000 gpu example, that's a very basic ~700 gflops gpu and it can play 4k raw files from my AX100 with ease. The current limitations are on the software side, not the hardware side unless you are stacking multiple 4k streams om top of each other which I'll admit I never do.


Everyone's mileage will vary. For me proxy files are a no go firstly because it costs me more time, and secondly because it would increase my archiving dramatically as I have to revisit old footage sometimes which means I would have to keep all original source and the proxy files. That kills off any video editor that requires proxy files to work, I'll never touch them. Scripting is 100% required for me as well, that alone saves me countless hours as I've written code to automate all sorts of tasks that I regularly do. I know many other people that run websites that have no idea how I run 5 (soon to be 7) websites all on my own with no help. They all have Mac's and use other editors other than Vegas Pro, so they don't realize how much extra work they are hurting themselves with compared to me that does everything with ease on Vegas Pro. I keep that info a secret, but they wouldn't believe me if I told them anyways as many just don't see Windows as a viable video editing platform, which blows my mind but whatever. Ultimately I'd consider other video editing programs, but with Vegas Pro I have not needed proxy files since 2005 when I started using it, and it's scripting is simply too powerful and useful for me to ever forgo it. It's not for trying, I did try Premiere Pro and estimated that it took me 12x longer to run my business with that app compared to Vegas Pro. But that's me and my needs, everyone's needs will vary.


Do you mean it has a 770m gpu? I am thinking of switching to a different ultrabook, hopefully one with a Maxwell based 860m gpu. If your 770m can handle 4k in Vegas Pro then the 860m should be able to as well.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Yes, seriously. As I posted, Premiere Pro works in real-time directly with 4K XAVC. With Mavericks the Intel GPU becomes supported by OpenCL which may make both FCP X and Premiere faster.

FCP X edits in real-time with ProRes proxy. Yes, it takes time to background convert XAVC to proxy, but one can begin editing right away. The conversion occurs in the background.

Really can't ask for more than that. So what's the need for a monster workstation? I have a loaded MB Air with i7 and SSD. I have edited all over the world. FCP X uploads directly to YouTube and Vimeo -- so all I need to "distribute" is a good ISP. The upload of 4K media limitation is the speed of the ISP -- and a workstation won't help that.

Where a workstation would help is with iMovie and Media Composer. Both will play XAVC UHD, but very slowly. So one must wait for a transcode and a super fast CPU would help this. Once transcoded, however, I can use both to edit 4k in real-time on my laptop.

But, even if you have a MacPro with dual GPUs -- neither NLE can use them. In fact Media Composer really doesn't use the GPU much.

So the only place where a workstation would be of benefit is with iMovie and Media Composer. For me the obvious choice is to let the transcoding occur during the night and have a 3# computer.

But, if I were pressed for time, I have the choice of Premiere and FCP X. Both are good NLEs. FCP X using the GPU for all FX gives it an advantage for FX heavy work.

So I find it odd that you say go ahead and post what works, but then say ignore these data and believe your opinion on what one needs. I can't imagine ever again sitting at a desk to use a computer. However, when the next rMBP 13" is released I might upgrade as it is only a half-pound heavier.

PS: I use the Air for grading as well. I use AE and LightPost. But, will soon have Resolve running -- not that I really need it.

But, you are right about the tiny cost difference between Mac and PC -- considering that there are no sexy PCs. hp and Dell are doing so badly in PC sales they just don't bother to try.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

There are some, like this one:

The New Razer Blade Ultra-Thin Gaming Laptop - 14" Notebook Display

It's same size and weight as a Macbook Pro but with a higher res 3200x1800 display, better 870m gpu, and touchscreen. There's also this one if you don't need such high resolution:

http://dragonarmy.msi.com/home/weapons/GS70-Stealth-Pro

It supports three ssd's in a very thin case so you can have redundant raid in your ultrabook along with an 870m gpu, or go for speed with 1500MB/sec raid 0.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I'll admit I have stayed at 10.7.5 because it is super stable. (But, I have no actual data that says 10.9.2 isn' fine.) And, it's true that most of the hate for 8/8.1 comes from Metro. But, even if one can go directly to the Start menu, all that extra code and the hooks from Metro to/from Windows are still inside Windows. And, it looks likes MS now wants to make Metro apps run under Windows. They just won't give-up the notion that devices for Metro don't sell -- and folks don't want it in Windows.

But even if Windows were rock solid it has two huge problems for me: viruses that kill my friends computers on a regular basis and a 1990's GUI. It's butt ugly. And, MS has spread this ugly to Office. To me, MS products just scream "we don't give a damn because we make a ton of money because our OS must be on every computer not sold by Apple."

Moreover, Apple OS is free. I'd have to spend money to buy 8.1 just before 9 arrives. It's a no win game. Oh -- and there's not a single bit of Windows-only software that I would ever want or use. The big video guys are on the Mac.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I got a Sager laptop way back in 2008 that came with dual video cards, in SLI configuration. They do exist. Also, SSD drives can be installed in any laptop (well, not sure about Apple Products), just take out the HDD and install the SDD, same fit, etc. That 2008 laptop had 3 HDDs and now I've got it running with one HDD and two SDD in RAID. About the RAM thing... I have 16GB in my newer 2011 Sager laptop, but I believe you can get them with up to 64GB now. I only edit on laptops since I got the Sager. I just don't agree with your form-factor limitation for 4K. The camera under discussion doesn't even have that high of a data rate. I sometimes shoot to Prores 422 or uncompressed. I use Adobe PP to edit those, on my laptop.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I"m trying to understand what this has to do with the Sony FDR-AX100? Not trying to be smart but Mac/windows discussions are getting a bit old now.

Now about editing 4k on a laptop, another windows based solution would be Edius which can use proxy files as well, I can edit anything I"d like in that way on my I5 lenovo business laptop that has just minimal specs, it is only too slow to do the converting part which I do on a more powerfull desktop pc and then just export my edit to the laptop; once I have done my editing with the laptop in the field I can just reimport those changes to my desktop pc for more critical adjustments like colorcorrecting or checking for any focus issues on a big screen, and finally to export the whole thing to web, dvd, blu-ray and so on.


the only thing I would ask myself is if this would be a good solution to edit 4K files, for reviewing purpose I would like to have a 4K screen connected as well if needed, I would find it difficult judging 4K focus for instance on a 15 inch laptopscreen.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Steve, that's quite a tale you tell. I have 8 windows laptops and 3 windows desktops and 1 Mac. Half of them have windows 8 and the other half windows 7 They all run beautifully and I haven't had a virus since 2003.

As far as metro you don't have to use it if you don't want o. Just resort back to the old start menu. It takes about a good hour to learn windows 8 and it's rock solid.

Every problem that you have on a PC you can bet you have on a Mac. And if you don't believe that just google it. A good for instance would be to google "macbook overheating". And from there you can google any problem you find on a PC and it shows up on Macs in large numbers.

This Mac Vs PC has got to be the silliest argument in the world.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

so you do all your "general editing"... inside a car using a laptop in the parking lot at Wal-Mart? Hey whatever works for you... my projects allow me to do all my editing... after we are done shooting... in a comfortable room.. with a workstation and calibrated monitor and speakers. Nice leather chair too. Much easier than any laptop configuration.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I think the ones posting about their fantastic laptop editing solutions... like the small monitors.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Look at real world 4K video tests... go ahead and put 50 layers of 4K video and tell me how fast is plays on any laptop.

Pushing Apple's new Mac Pro and Final Cut Pro X to their limits - fcp.co

I didn't mean to hijack this thread about the Sony FDR-AX100 camcorder... editing 4K video is a totally different topic, maybe this should be a new thread.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

One needs to be careful when looking at video cards specs. Many cards are geared towards "gaming"... and work wonderful for those applications.

When Apple created the new Mac Pro, it had ONE market really in mind, and that was 4K video editing. If you are NOT editing video, there is really no reason the buy the newest MacPro. It actually does not get very good benchmarks on "games". It is the COMBINATION of working with Final Cut Pro and the new dual FirePro D700 GPU cards that make the workstation scream.

So if you want to compare "apples and oranges"... oh I couldn't resist.

A new workstation for editing is just like any other tool. I don't let a brand name determine which gear I use, I use the best tool for the price. The new MacPro needs to be seen as a hardware AND a software solution. If you don't like using Final Cut Pro, then no reason to get the new MacPro. But if you do like the software, then there really is one best choice right now for running Final Cut Pro — and that is the new Mac Pro. Maybe there might be a laptop with dual FirePro D700 coming soon, but right now it doesn't exist.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I don't even need a dedicated videocard with edius pro as it utilizes the onboard gpu to render blur-ray format out twice realtime and it handles all native 1080p 50p files in realtime, even several layers of multicam without any conversion, the reason why I commented about these Mac/windows discussions is that they quickly turn into bashing eachother which is starting to happen here, they don't contribute to anything.

With my current pc set up I know I could handle about anything I trow at it, even high bitrate 4k files, only not in it's native format, for that I would have to convert to a intermediate file, the only downside to that would be the extra disc space needed.

This looks about the same when Hdv started to appear, a lot of pc systems at that time where choking on it and you needed expensive rendercards to save some export times, pc hardware development goes so fast soon 4k will be dealt with as easy as you would handle avchd now.

You have to respect the fact Derek that not everyone can work from inside a cozy office, many need portable solutions that work in the field, I am curious though about userfeedback on different workable laptop/software solutions that make 4K editing possible in reraltime. Is it not that the sony ax100 has a lower bitrate 4K codec? Should that not make editing easier?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I guess Edius Professional, used by a number of network affiliates, are not one of 'the big guys'. There are others but I find these generalizations a bit overdone. The main video editor used on the Mac is FCP. Period.

Most others simply don't run on a Mac and they are, of course, dismissed out of hand by Mac fans as not being as good. If it doesn't run on a Mac it's not worth considering. This is kind of silly.

I'd like to get back to the AX100 which I think was the topic of this thread. But let me end with this, years ago it WAS true, Mac was the only game in town for stable video editing and FC was the only good editing program. For those that still believe this, it's time to come out of your cave, it is simply untrue. Living in the past is unproductive.

Choices abound on the windows platform (unlike the Mac) and not just choices, excellent choices. Both the Mac and the PC are, IMO, equally adept at video editing and it comes down to which program do you prefer and what will it run on.

Back to the AX100, please.