Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

That's the same one!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

"Is it possible to add a shoulder strap on AX100 with some trick?"

It would be really, really good if you read the manual (given the number of questions you are asking), the link to which has been posted many times. If you did do that, you would see that there is a metal shoulder strap loop in the back of the hand loop.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

And I mentioned using a lanyard with a clip to attach to just such a metal ring... used that for several generations of Handycams now.... though I suspect the AX100 is a bit heavier than earlier models.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Has anyone compared the 1080P video shot with the CX900 with that shot with the AX100?
Denny

Shutter speed question
 

Can the ax100 shoot 1/33.3, 1/50, 1/100 at 24p?
Thanks

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I have yet to see an AX100, but the local Best Buy had a CX100 on display. So, close enough for size comparison.
These cameras are HUGE next to their video camera brethren. Twice as big, twice the weight. Definitely feels hefty on your hands. Small compared to pro level cameras, of course, but they certainly set the new standard for consumer cams.
So, the question is - the AX100 or GH4?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Glen, both! I've got a GH4 coming next week and I'm really looking forward to comparing my AX100 to the GH4.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I'm going with the AX100. It might just replace 2-3 of my other cameras. Something I'm curious to see is how the low light performance compares to the XF305. Bigger sensor, better low-light, right? That's what I've been hearing for years, so now watch, this camera will be the exception. I should be able to test for myself soon enough. Fingers crossed.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Have anyone did a size comparison between the HC1 and the AX100 and took a photo of it?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Not necessarily, my Sony cx730 @ 21db is about equal @ 8000 iso on the rx10 and the cx730 has a bit cleaner image at that iso.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Mark, the AX100 is quite good in low light. If you're at all familiar with the RX10, the AX100 is a bit better than that.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Great, please post the result.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Thanks Ken,
Not familiar with the RX10, but I'll take it as a considerable improvement over my current gear. So this one definitely could tick a few boxes for me; 4K, low-light, IR, smaller form-factor, ND filters.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I've seen a AX100E and it is even bigger than my old Optura 20!

My preference is the GH4 due to the fact the firmware in the AX100 has to correct for the lens, which has a bad case of barrel distortion.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Watch the video review. At about 2:12 he discusses low light and the fact that he was surprised that it was a bit better than the RX10. Prior to selling my RX10, I found the same thing in comparing the two for low light.

I'm not a big fan of their video samples since I think they're often not shot particularly well, but in general, their reviews are pretty decent.

Sony AX100 Hands-On Field Test - YouTube

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

That kind of thing doesn't bother me as long as it's corrected one way or the other. It's the final picture that counts in my book.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Has this thread moved?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Unfortunately not yet, I think!

I think it has just got too big and unwieldly no-one is bothering with it anymore!

Vaughan

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I shot some super action stuff last weekend and noticed some new quirks. If you shoot rapidly as in record start stop , start stop type of shooting it will lag really bad. I was getting 4-5 seconds delay sometimes from hitting start to when it would record. Maybe it was the video writing to the card?

1080 60p and 720 120p RC cars

4K RC Cars, The youtube stream looks super horrible even in 4K. On my computer it looks smooth.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Joey,

Thanks for posting that cat-less video. I'm still waiting on my camera to arrive. I'm encouraged about the high-speed mode; not as worried about the rolling shutter anymore. May not even be an issue at the 720p resolution. In 120fps, is there a record time limitation, or does the memory card keep up?

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Thanks Mark
There is no limitation on the 720 120fps mode that I know of. The 720 120fps mode is probably my favorite mode of all. If it was just a touch sharper.

As a micro review after having it a month the overall con is it is a little slow in general as in focus, zoom, reaction time in general. I like to switch between modes and resolutions a lot and it is a 2 menu process every time.

The pros are many picture quality #1 , Full manual control, EVF is awesome,4K 1080 60p and 720 120p ! Also nightshot.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Joey, if you think this is slow, you should see the GH4. I currently have it, but will be returning it for a variety of reasons.

The autofocus is very slow and very unstable. As opposed to the Sony, it doesn't lock on to a subject that way the AX100 does. Additionally, the exposure is very stepped as is the case with most DLRS not using a constant aperture lens. As a result, you can get a sudden brightening or darkening of the image.

I also have a weird effect with shots at telephoto distances. It's almost as if the camera is seeing 'heat waves'. In fact if I weren't doing A/Bs at the time with my AX100, I would have attributed it to that, heat waves. It wasn't.

This has made me appreciate the AX100 that much more.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ken I have been checking out your thread. I was tempted to switch to the GH4 if it was awesome even though its not full frame. I have a few L lens and an old 5D markII I'm guessing Canon will never put 4K in their normal DSLRs ,heck I don't think they have a 1080 60p video mode in one yet. I have really been looking at switching to Sony A7. Since I am just as much into photography I want full frame.

I think the AX100 will be great for a few years until 4K 120fps comes out on a new camcorder lol.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi

You seem to the be first person finding these issues, I don't see any problems in GH4 clips that have been posted or anyone else talking about it.

Perhaps you just have a faulty camera or lens and/or are expecting the GH4 to behave like a consumer camcorder, when most people understand it will not.

It's a digital mirror-less camera that shoots great video but needs some time and work for that, if you want point and shoot, a traditional camcorder is what you need and what you have.

Regards

Phil

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ken, your mention of the GH4 autofocus being "very unstable" caught my attention. I've been trying to decide between buying the GH4 and AX100. In many videos I have seen from m4/3 cameras and DSLR's, including some pre-release GH4 videos, the AF locks in, then loses focus at some point during shooting and has to refocus. This sometimes occurs even if the subject isn't moving and the camera is not being panned or zoomed. The only movement of the camera is the small movements caused by being used hand-held.

Does the GH4 do this? And does the AX100 do this? I haven't seen it in AX100 youtube or Vimeo videos, but it may have been edited out before posting.

I am used to small sensor Sony camcorders (like the CX760V with a tiny 1/2.88 sensor) which have deep depth-of-field, so I have never experienced a loss of focus during shooting. I would not like dealing with the loss of auto-focus mid-shot, and don't want to learn to use manual focus (I use manual exposure often, but don't won't to bother with manual focus -- it's too hard with old eyes, even with using the peaking feature.) The GH4 m4/3 sensor, and even the AX100 1" sensor are much larger than the CX760V's sensor, so I am concerned about the AF issue with either choice.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi
Of course Phil you will never have anything good to say about the AX100. That's already been established more times than I can count on MUTIPLE forums. Just as when I posted a video of the major issue I was having with the 'heat wave' effect, your only comment was how you had seen something like that on the AX100. Comments from you on the actual GH4 video I posted? None. Only an obscure reference to having seen 'something like that on the AX100'. Very funny. Yet I have yet to see ANY AX100 video that shows anything like what I posted with the GH4.

Phil, I don't know what your motivation is for so despising the Sony, but I find it so very odd. I suspect one day we'll find out. Don't you find the GH4 makes you 'physically ill' as you've stated numerous times relative to the AX100? Or does the same 30fps on the GH4 make you 'feel better'?

Phil, I have had numerous DSLRs and have shot lots of video with them and know full well what their foibles are. I know the autofocus on DSLRs when shooting video is poor. However the issues I was having with the GH4 went beyond that and I proved that with video evidence. I don't have any grudges against one camera vs another as you most obviously do.

I was perfectly willing to work a bit harder for good video that exceeded that of the AX100, but even when I did work harder for those results, I found the video produced by the AX100 to be superior, IMO. We know for a fact that its resolution is higher than the GH4. That's been tested and proved.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Dale, you are precisely correct. Every DSLR I've ever had (with the exception of the RX10, which some might not consider a true DSLR) does exactly what you said. They will take a second or longer to catch the focus AFTER you hit the record button. So the beginning of the shot is invariably lost. Then, at some point during the clip, the focus will hunt for no good reason. It doesn't happen all the time, but often enough to be very annoying...at least for me.

My GH2 & GH3 behaved exactly the same way and yes, unfortunately my GH4 has done the same thing. It is very annoying and really necessitates you abandoning autofocus if you want to ensure you get the shot correct from start to finish. This was clear in many pre-release GH4 videos, but I was hoping the final firmware would address it. It didn't.

Since my pleasure video taking is more of a 'run n gun' style, this does not lend itself well to this kind of shooting. There are too many instances where you don't have the luxury of setting up a shot or the shot requires instant capture to avoid missing it entirely. Many things we shoot happen quickly and won't wait for you to adjust all the parameters in manual mode.

The additional issue with DSLR video shooting, is a tendency for exposure to change in 'steps' rather than a smooth ramping that occurs in camcorders. Personally I find this very distracting and it's evident in the GH4 too.

Put simply, you need to take extra time to ensure that shots are successful when using a DSLR. Where you have the luxury to do this, it's fine, when you don't it's not.

Now the AX100's autofocus is great. It generally locks on quickly (there may be some exceptions) and the focus simply does not drift, It makes no difference if you're zooming or pulling back from a tight shot, the focus stays locked. The result is, IMO, more professional looking.

The major thing you are missing in the AX100 is a DSLR level of control over DOF. So although you can get some relatively shallow DOF shots with the AX100 by either shooting close to your subject with a wide aperture or by shooting at longer zoom ratios, you won't have quite as much control.

I find this a very acceptable 'limitation' given the ease of shooting and the many foibles of DSLR shooting.

To be honest, I've given up on the GH4 and will only shoot with the AX100. With the Sony, shot after shot after shot is perfect. If there are any shots that are off the mark, it's almost always my fault. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Thanks, Ken. That pretty much settles it for me in favor of the AX100 and confirms what I have seen. Also people on the GH forums have told me that with m4/3 cameras and DSLRs it is best to shoot video with manual focus.

As far as less ability to get shallow DOF with the AX100, that is exactly what I want. I only shoot vacation and family events and want the video to look like what I saw with my eyes. So shallow DOF is not something I need or want.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Could be the youtube compression but it looks like with that fast moving objects the codec in 4k is getting stressed much more as in 1080p as I do see more artifacts, eventhough it appears a bit sharper then the footage shot at 1080p.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I have a cx730 and a gh3 and in terms of functionality these camera are somewhat comparable with resp the ax100 and gh4, a gh3/4 is not exactly a run a gun camera, at least not compared to a cx730/ax100, the ax100 has a larger sensor which also contributes in a shallower dof making focusing more tricky then on a cx730 but I expect it to perform much better then on a gh4. The ax100 is actually a "real" palmsized videocamera with stepless exposure changes, build in ND's, smooth zoom, just to name a few functions of what you won't be finding back in small formfactor dslr's, the gh4 makes a good effort adding functionality that is much needed for making video but it remains a camera that takes more effort to get it right.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

The effect had been noted in other threads as well, it was not just his camera.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I think the problem Ken is my posts with you have usually been to counter your over praising of the Sony AX100, it is a good camcorder, nothing wrong with it. I don't think I've particularly said anything negative about it for the sake of it. I was even going to buy it for the 1080P and it's 50Mbps capture, but I've yet to see any native files of 1080P, and it's a big old thing just for 1080P, compared to something more compact and flexible like the GH4, which goes up to 100 or 200Mbps for 1080P and takes fantastic pictures, the GH4 is where I'm heading.

I don't despise it at all, it's just a gadget, I think despise is out of context :) I've personally no interest in 24/25 or 30p at 4K resolutions, I've made that clear, the type of camera capturing it doesn't make a difference in my view. When 4K reaches maturity and we have 60fps capture, I'm in.

Your hobby doesn't seem to be videography, it appears to be just lusting after the next camera and debating endlessly about them, certainly that is the case on another forum, just go out and film your friends and family and happy memories, when you watch those things back in my experience no one is watching for odd "micro" wobbles or pixel peeping or even care if it's SD, HD or 4K.

Regards

Phil

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

No Phil, you have demonstrated a particular distaste for the AX100, that's simply a fact. When two cameras demonstrate a similar issue, you will always ignore the issue in camera B and point to the AX100 as the camera with the problem.

Even my posted video proof that my GH4 produced the heat wave effect at telephoto focal lengths and my AX100 did not, was apparently not enough for you. These were clips shot at the same time, same location and same subject. Instead of admitting the AX100 was free of this issue, you felt compelled to say that you thought you had seen something like that effect with the AX100. I asked you for a link to any clip from any AX100 production camera that showed anything like what I demonstrated with the GH4. You have not done so. You never will.

This is not the first time posters have asked you for links to evidence to back up your odd assertions. The sad fact is you never do Phil. Never. And you have been called out on this by multiple posters. You're credibility is in doubt.

You grudgingly referred to the camera in your last post as 'good'. I think you know damn well the camera is better than 'good'. A $400 AVCHD camera may be 'good'. But shooting the kind of 4K footage it does, setting a precedent for the kind of PQ it produces in a unit this small is just 'good'? C'mon Phil, you give it all away there.

Your endless 'the AX100 clips make me physically ill' comments are hysterical. The same footage shot with the GH4, shot at the same frame rate, elicits no such comment.

And you feel the need to counter my enthusiasm for the AX100? Say what? Do you not see that as a somewhat bizarre behavioral pattern? Does it so bother you when someone feels they are getting footage that is so much better than any camera they've used before? Does it so bother you that someone is enjoying their camera? I'm sorry, that's a really odd motivation to feel compelled to throw cold water on positive comments. If my comments regarding the AX100 are TECHNICALLY inaccurate, then point that out. But to feel compelled to counter someone's enthusiasm simply because they're enthused? Sorry Phil, sounds both childish and rooted in a bit of jealousy. You must be great at parties.

As I've said before, we differ because you are technically inaccurate in many of your comments. You don't own the AX100 and have never seen the AX100 footage on a large screen UHD TV, yet you seem to be an expert about the AX100.

Finally, your comment about videography not being my hobby is supremely ignorant. These forums are filled with people who 'lust after their next camera' BECAUSE their hobby is videography. This simply eludes you.

What I find amazing about guys like you Phil, is that you have zero interest in buying an AX100. All you do is forum jump to throw stones at a camera you have no intention of buying. There's a word for that Phil, it's called TROLLING.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Had to google to get to your vimeo account which had that pârticular video, can I ask Ken what lens was on the gh4 at that moment? Was it a stabilised one?
This looks like a rolling shutter issue to me.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ken, I recently picked up the GH4. I thought seriously about the AX100, but chose the GH4 because it is also a full-fledged stills camera, has more versatile recording options, and seems to have better dynamic range. The AX100 is a camcorder, and this makes it superior in many ways for run and gun kinds of video without the need for changing lenses and more careful attention to setting up shots. The AX100 may have better resolution as well, I don't know. I agree with Noa, I think the heat wave effect is rolling shutter, and it may be more pronounced on the GH4 because the AX100 image stabilization is more effective. Panasonic lenses seem to have weaker IS capabilities in many cases. Were you shooting in 24p on the GH4? Rolling shutter is lower in 30p and way lower in 60p 1080p on the GH4.

These 2 great cameras have different strengths and weaknesses. I am still tempted to get an AX100, but I think the GH4 has deeper potential for professional work, but probably requires a bit more fuss to get the best out of it.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi

I agree, rolling shutter is probably a contributing factor here.

Some footage of the AX100 also demonstrates similar affects, although someone is blaming that on a pre-production model, although originally they said they couldn't see it at all on this footage, all discussed in this very thread.

SONY FDR-AX100 4k vido camera in FDR-AX100 - 4K-USER GROUP on Vimeo at 1:40 very noticable wobbles across different parts of the frame and worse later on.

I suppose what we should ask is for the person experiencing this issue to find similar problems on other footage posted out there from the GH4, and there is plenty to choose from, if it can't be found, then the likelihood is the posters camera or lens is faulty or badly calibrated, so lets not throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.

Still I've seen similar things on various HD camcorders with OIS although not as bad, and given the longer read-out time for 4K so rolling shutter is worse (that footage is riddled with it, any verticals get distorted for the smallest wobble), and you get the lenses moving around and re-positioning faster than the read-out time then I think this is just a characteristic of OIS and 4K under certain circumstances, certainly for the time being until read-out times improve.

Also no one said OIS is perfect, and it has an off button and tripod mounts for a reason. :)

Regards

Phil

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Noa, yes, that was with the new version of the Lumix 14-140 lens with OIS engaged. I don't pretend to know what's causing it, but it's really bad as you can see.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hey Pat. Yup, I agree with virtually everything you said.

All shots were made at 4K resolution @30p.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Of course we've seen no evidence that the AX100 has a 'similar effect'. It is very obvious the heat wave effect is far worse on the GH4 and I've seen nothing like it on the AX100.

The one clip that Phil showed of the AX100 was both a pre-production unit and didn't show the issue anywhere near the magnitude of what I posted with the GH4. In fact, the clip really didn't show anything other than what one would expect from an unsteady hand.

Now since the GH4 was only released days ago, we don't begin to have the library of clips we have from the AX100. I have yet to see an AX100 clip that shows anything like the heat wave effect.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ouch, and I thought the rolling shutter on the ax100 could look bad. The longest zoom lens I use to shoot handheld on my gh3 is the 12-35mm, anything longer then that will be tripod mounted. From what I understand the rolling shutter is worse in 4k 25p compared to 1080p 50p? In any case, my experience tells me that you should not use a gh3/4 type of camera in that way, it's no excuses to cover up it apparent rolling shutter issues but a dslr is not build to provide you supersmooth 200mm handheld footage, handicams are, eventhough the ax100 is no match for the satbilisation of the cx730 it still seems plenty good enough to get stable enough shots at the long end of the lens.

The gh4 is not a run and gun camera and can't really be compared to a ax100, they are both 2 totally different camera's for different purposes, the gh4 will give you more possibilities in lens choices, shallow dof, codecs and image presets but the ax100 is a bit like the rx10 a all in one powerhouse that does most stuff well to really well. A GH4 will require an experienced operator to get the most from it while the ax100 can make a soccermam look good. :) Don't get me wrong with that last statement, I do have small handicams and dslr's that I use for my paid projects and for any quick and dirty work I much prefer my handicams over my dslr's but when I have the time to set up I much prefer my dslr's.