Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

The 4K adventure continues...

Thought I'd post a bit of an update... since Winders 7 would only make 16Gb available, and I found another 16G for cheap, I decided to upgrade to Win 8... with all the issues... and despite how much I HATE W8...

But, I can report that clips from the AX100 now play perfectly smooth, and look significantly better than I was able to achieve with W7. Not sure if it's the extra RAM now available or the refinements in the OS, or a little of both, but it's worth reporting that an OS upgrade may need to be in the upgrade budget for those considering it!

Vegas is currently broken, and I have activation issues I have to get cleared up with the seller I got the W8 from... IIRC, Vegas has to be reinstalled to work with W8, and looks like I have some problems to overcome before the OS is fully functional... but it was nice to see that 4K can be smooth(er)!


It also bears noting that a few "critiques" of the AX100 were based on trying to play footage on aging hardware/software. Putting old bald tires and cheap gas on a hot rod and then blaming the car for lack of traction and giddyup probably isn't the correct answer.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Marc -

By any chance did they add a "tongue" that goes up into/over the area with the contacts? I was debating if that was workable, and thinned out that section of my DIY foot successfully so that it cleared the contacts, it makes for probably 30%+ more contact/clamp area, and my homebrew adapter is almost impossible to move... it's quite tight!

I still have to post some pics of my "foot" mods, but I'm happy with the results. I know not everyone wants to "experiment" or has tools available... so it's good someone is working on a easily available solution! If the manufacturer is wondering, have them check this thread for my adventures, it's easy to incorporate my design mods to their design!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

There maybe some differences with WIN 8. I have just got a Dell 14" New Insperon with WIN 8.1. It will play files from my AX1, 150Mbps 60P in PlayMemories with correct speed sound but with some frame dropping/ video speed. Neither my 6 Core AMD or my i7 3770K on my main editors will do this !!! The Dell is a dual core i7 with 8G RAM the editors , Win 7 Home Premium with 16G RAM. Vegas 12 will not play on main PC unless preview is in draft 1/4 !!!

Ron Evans

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I am a firm believer in using the latest OS. I was using Win 7 for about a year before it was released, and I used Win 8 for months before it was released, and I never had issues. Really. Still not sure what there is to dislike, with latest updates I boot right up to desktop, works and feels just like Win 7.

Because of your post Dave, I am reminded to reformat my HD and reinstall Windows prior to my AX100's arrival. I'm not happy with the performance of my 3930K lately anyway. Not at all happy with SSDs either. Nice in some ways but so overrated.

I found a used AX100 and used batteries at B&H and it made the decision to go 4K a little easier. Loving the CX900, aside from a few minor nitpicks. It's so good to be back with Sony. My first set of matching cams consisted of a Sony PD150, Sony VX2100 and a VX2000. While I'm on the fence about keeping the RX10, at least it matches my CX900 and my soon to arrive AX100, so this is very nostalgic in a way.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Agreed, had a WD raptor before my current SSD's as OS disc and honestly I don't notice any big differences and I did test my SSD for speed and they run as expected. I still prefer to have hugh HD's and they fill up very quickly. Price per GB is still very much in favor of the regular HD's and they are more then reliable enough if set up in the right way.

How is you CX900 working out for you Jeff? I wonder if the only difference between that camera and the ax100 is the fact that it can't do 4K?

.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Noa, I absolutely love the CX 900. this is exactly the same camera as the ax100. it has zebra stripes everything.

of course there's always something to complain about but at least it's minor in this case. not a fan of the magnify button on the right side of the case, its hard for me to find by feel but that just might be me.it's an unbeatable value and I think anyone buying anything else at this price point would be nuts unless they absolutely have to have XLR or wanted / needed dslr. In this form factor what else can approach this cam for iq?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

oh, I've got a comment on battery life! Unbelievable battery life with this camera. I get like 7 hours on a single battery?I love it.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Sony must have been asleep when designing the rx10 battery, not like Sony at all, I"m constantly watching at the remaining battery time when shooting with the rx10, takes my attention of the content. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I agree it is a distraction.I've got three batteries so that's enough but like you said you're always having a look at remaining battery power and it takes away from what you're doing.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Funny, all the talk about HDD's made me realize that at least some of the clips are on a slow "green" HDD, and they are playing back in Play Memories Home (while I sort out the OS issues!) and look good and smooth on the 4K TV/monitor. They were not so good in W7... and better from my slightly less aged 7200 RPM drives.

Looks to me like an update to Windows 8 is likely a very good plan for anyone going for 4K. There are definite structural improvements under that darn Play-Skool interface!

I do use Start Menu 8, which brings back the W7 "feel", so that does make it better, and I'll try the new 8.1 updates when I get the chance. Probably do that before sorting the non-working programs and devices... and there are some things that won't carry over from 7 to 8....as usual...


I hated it when I saw the battery choice for the RX10 in the pre-release specs - I wish they had made a little more room and put the bigger standard Alpha battery in instead of the NEX battery... never found the FW50 to be a great power source. Sometimes they don't think through the power requirements for continuous video! Batteries that are "OK" in a still camera may not have the stamina for best video shooting experience! Took me a bit to pick up a few spares that weren't knockoffs, but the knockoffs seem to work fine in the RX where they didn't in the NEX I tried...


@Jeff -
I picked up my AX100 "lightly used", at a no-brainer price, and even if it didn't have 4K, it's a pretty fine handling camera overall!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Green drives...not my fav. They tend to stop spinning to conserve power and if you're edting anything on that drive it can lock up Vegas. At least that was the case with my WD green drives.

I had serious issues that cleared up immediately when I ditched them probably 4 years ago.

Glad to hear you got a deal also, Dave. I'm most excited about the idea of being able to zoom in during post with they huge resolution.

Re: workstations, new Intel chips coming out late summer and I am likely going to make the jump to the Z99 chipset, or whatever it's called, I forget now.

True 8 core processors should be good for editing.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I didn't realize your AX100 4K clips were not playing smoothly.

I think I mentioned it early on, but WMP with Win 8.1 is now my favorite player for 4K clips. Different players tend to give slightly altered color balances, but WMP has the best combination of sharpness, smooth playback and color accuracy. It seems Win 8.1 is quite 4K friendly.

I never was overly fond of WMP in Win 7. It's a welcome change. And I'm actually fine with Win 8.1.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

It wasn't bad, I'd describe it as being able to "see" the 30p "effect". Surprisingly, the Sony app is working well for a change. WMP works well too, so no complaints!

Keep in mind that this was a low budget 4K "system", so if anything is a little "off", you get some strangeness... and my W8.1 seems a bit "off" from again from what W8 was... having a LOT of display related weirdness - quite obviously the OS decided my 4K display was about a 10" screen, and EVERYTHING had to be oversize... slowly figuring out how to get a usable desktop...

Win8/8.1 still feels like a beta to me, but I've run plenty of beta software over the years, so "onward"!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi Ron,

Please explain to me the above statements, as I don't quite understand why you're saying you cannot get smooth playback of the AX100 native UHD files on a Win7 computer. As to VP 13, I agree that it's impossible to get anything above Preview/Quarter, but outside Vegas and using VLC, I'm getting fluid playback and when watching statistics, very few data blocks are lost. So, is the problem only related to 60p which the AX100 is not even capable of? Or am I missing something?

I'd like to pull a trigger on this little camera plus one of those relatively cheap Samsung 4K monitors (BTW, will it be possible to play directly via HDMI on anything else than Sony's own Bravia TV)?. But at the moment this would be all I can afford; my Vegas edit satation being just a mediocre 2600K CPU I've been wondering if I'll be able to do simple edits and playybacks (especially after your post..

TIA

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

It may be 60P that is the issue as I do not have any AX100 30P XAVC-S files to try at the moment as I shoot all 60P on the FDR-AX1. Edius Pro 7.31 will play 60P XAVC-S from the AX1 if it is the only file in the project with the occasional stutter.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Oops... Sorry, I thought you were talking 24p files from the AX100; didn't realize you have the AX1 :)

Thanks,

Piotr

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I connected the HDMI out from the AX100 to the input on my REALLY cheap Seiki 4K TV/"monitor", no problems with connection or playback - that's one reason I have continued "tweaking" the new system, I know it can, I know it can, I know it can....

I will say that even with the grief along the way, a 4K desktop is quite nice for productivity, stills look amazing, and 4K video is amazing when everything is working perfectly. Strangely, where I was getting very smooth playback in W8, the W8.1 upgrade seems to have gone a bit rough again, not bad, but seems not as "right" as it was... somehow I see a complete re-install focused on getting a clean stable W8.1 install....

sigh. life on the bleeding edge...

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I hate this thread...
Every time I see it, it reminds me how much I want to buy an AX100, which is pretty much the last camera I need. But man do I want one. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Well, the AX100 arrived and it seems exactly the same as the CX900, minus the 4K, of course.

The menu is very difficult to operate, it seems almost defective. I will play with it more later, but it's not the same as my CX900, it takes a lot of pressue to acitvate things on the screen. I suspect I have a lemon.

4K or not it looks same on LCD, which I kind of expected since the LCD is not 4K.

Very excited to take it out later and test it.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Jeff, I would be very interested in how 4k downsized to 1080p on the ax100 compared to 1080p on the cx900 would look like in regard to resolved detail?

I have heard the cx900/ax100 also have good low light performance, read they even do a bit better then the cx730, if anyone would know of any comparison videos online a link would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Noa, I'd strongly suspect that the AX100 shooting in 4K and down sampled to 1080p will look better than the 900 shooting in HD.

That's one of the major advantages of shooting in 4K. Personally I've never seen HD look so good, let alone what the camera looks like in true 4K.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

120 mins on a 64GB card? Really?

The manual states can record 2:10 mins using a Sony card, can there really be a difference?

Does anyone know if cam will accept 128Gb card?

Edit: Feel a bit silly, forgot to format card! Still curious whether cam will take a 128GB card. Manual only mentions 64GB.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Jeff, just a tip, try using the tip of your fingernail when selecting the various menu elements. I find it's more responsive and accurate than trying to select menu items with your finger alone.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Yes, I've been using a 128 gig card and it works just fine.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

thanks Ken, I'll try that. I've got a CX900, this cam just seems different that way.

Wow, cool, I'll order a larger card immediately! $$$

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

The detail is incredible. I want to send back my CX900 and get another AX100.

Footage plays back perfectly fine in Vegas alongside three other cameras. I am officially in love. It's the CX900 (which I love) on steroids.

Edit: I probably will send back the CX900. I have to find time to edit some footage and play with it to make sure, but it's like butter on the timeline so far. I reformatted the card and lost what I shot and am terribly busy with customers today, but will find time tonight or tomorrow.

Will give you a report Noa.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Noa, couldn't help myself. I videotaped my couch, the pillow, etc. and rendered it out to 1080p, detail is very, very good. I'm sure it's better than the CX900 would be. I don't even feel compelled to compare.

Look at screen shot to see how much I cropped the clip and see how much detail is still present. This is a low rez .gif screenshot of a videoclip shot handheld in active steadyshot mode in relatively low light. It's insane.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

That's what I've been trying to tell everyone. :)

Glad you're enjoying it.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Haven't seen your posts. Ken if you've been trying to convince others, you can stop. 4K is going to catch on extremely quickly!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ken, how fast does card need to be?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992493-REG/sandisk_sdsdxs_128g_a46_extreme_sdxc_uhs_1_80mb_s.html
I like Extreme Pro cards but in this size they are expensive. Your thoughts?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Remember, in 4K every mistake you make will be magnified, your couch won't mind but your client will :) Just kidding, looking forward to seeing some more samples from you and especially a weddingvideo. I"ll wait until the storm passes and until Sony gives a 50% discount when they announce yet a other model. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

True Noa, closeups will be brutal!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I said when they announced the AX100 and the CX900 that the CX didn't make a lot of sense... even if the 4K was highly flawed or hard to work with (it's not, with the right computer setup and patience!), the additional "feature" seemed well worth the additional cost.

IF Sony had simply priced the AX100 at the CX900 price and offered a single model, they could have saved a lot of hassle in the marketing/stocking department. I'm sure they had their reasons, but since the AX100 can be set to shoot "HD" with a couple taps of the touchscreen IF it's desirable (and I argue there are times when it IS), it's sort of silly not to have the 4K option... at least that's MY opinion!

I stuck an "SDHC" card in mine, rather than the "SDXC" they spec, seems to work fine... of course faster is always preferable for headroom and download speeds.

I see no problem with cropping 4K to produce a 1920x1080 frame, in fact it looks sharper to me than a "native" 1080 frame - although the higher bitrate 1080/60p/50Mbps is quite nice.


@Noa -

Keep your eyes open for an open box return type deal (so you can still write it off and have warranty), 50% is a bit much, but if you can find 25-30% discount... I really doubt you'd regret it.

In a year you may be able to find larger markdowns/discounts, but I've noticed that because there is NO "consumer" market for videocams anymore (thank you cell phones and tablets)... "professional grade" cameras hold their value much better and "screaming deals" don't show up as often. The market for "consumer" (and the AX100 is the "flagship consumer cam") has changed rather substantially in the last 2-3 years.


It HAS been an adventure getting a 4K capable computer system "mostly" working (still some "bugs", nothing serious!), but once you've looked at video and stills on a 4K screen, your perception is forever altered... in a good way! Those who are saying 4K is a gimmick and/or won't catch on have either not seen it "working", or need to see the eye doctor (psychiatrist?!)... there is certainly nothing "wrong" with good "HD" by a long shot, but once the 4K panels and content come down the pipe at reasonable prices, it will catch on quickly. I'd expect much faster adoption than HD...

From a content producer viewpoint, your "HD" deliverables should look noticeably "better" while we wait for 4K to become more "common", and when it does, you'll already be "ready"!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Jeff, here's the one I'm currently using, but it's probably overkill. I just feel comfortable with it:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1044487-REG/transcend_ts128gsdu3_128gb_sdxc_uhs_i_u3_r95_w60mb_s.html

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ken, the Transcend looks like a good value, thanks for sharing.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Noa, just thought of you and your request for comparison footage. My apologies. I just shipped my CX900 back to store. I saw no reason to keep it once I worked with the AX100 for a while. I found another used one and it just seemed silly to not order.

There are so many accounts of how well it downscales, and I rendered sample footage and it is indeed fine, so I just went for it.

I feel as a solo shooter that it will make my life a little easier. Sadly, something better will no doubt come along very soon, but I can live with this camera for awhile.

I think that 4K is absolutley unnecessary for those shooting with DSLRs or other high-end cams, because they are already getting amazing images.

In my case, it just seemed the small additional cost for a used AX100 was well worth it. The CX900 alone would be perfectly fine, but now I at least have additional options for a small price.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

No worries Jef, I would be interested to see how both camera's work out for you. I decided now not to jump on the 4k wagon yet, it's been just over a year that I invested in new gear and the wisest thing to do is use it this and next year before I make investments again or replace all my current camera's. By then I"m sure several new 4K camera's will be available and it will be more clear how they perform, prizes also will be lower by then so some patience will save me some money. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Jeff, having seen my AX100 footage on UHD TVs as large as 85", there is no DSLR out there that can come close to this kind of video quality. Really, not even close.

Even simply downscaling the 4K footage to HD will result in a quality that again, no DSLR that shoots HD can match.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Well Ken, you know I'm on the bandwagon for 4K, but I'm just sayin'. I don't see why someone shooting with a Canon C300 or 5D or whatever needs the quality boost.

First, lets' agree, if we can, that virtually no one will be delivering 4K for awhile.

But as you say, 4K downsampled is awesome. Many of us here know this. My purchasing two of the AX100s is proof of my sincerity.

However, in my case I needed cameras anyway. I got a quality boost for an extra $250 per camera by buying used AX100s, it's the only reason I did it. Superior picture for a minimal cost.

Guys that are already turning out gorgeous videos, Noa, for example, do not NEED 4K.

These guys have such a command of their gear and extract such clear, in-focus images on a consistent basis that their customers are not missing out on anything.

So I agree with you! 4K is great. I'm excited about shooting again! I've got a camera that is good in low light, much better than my old ones. I can actually run in auto white balance much of the time and not worry about it. AND I've got a boost from the advantage of 4K.

But for those shooting beautiful videos already, I don't believe they need 4K. They already have what they need.

And lest we forget, content is king!

I would trade my 4K cameras in an instant in exchange for shooting skills like Dave Parrington or Noa. Sadly, skills must be honed and developed, they can't be bought! However, as I learn to find a life outside of video I'm just not willing to put in the time to grow, at least as much as I would like.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Having cameras that are fun to shoot helps a lot - more opportunity to hone your skills! And there is something to be said for looking at the "output" and being really thrilled with how good it looks technically (sharpness, contrast, color, WB) instead of kicking oneself around over things the camera didn't get quite right while you were trying to "focus" on good framing and steady shooting!

You must be finding some killer deals on those AX100's! I'm debating a second one myself, but I'm holding onto a PJ760 for the BOSS stabilization... at least for the moment.


It will be interesting to see where Sony goes moving forward - logically there will be one or more 4K capable RX series released "eventually", but the RX100M3 not getting it isn't a good sign that Sony is as excited about 4K as first adopters are!


On the Handycam side, I hope they don't do the same thing as the HC1 to HC3 transition (for those that remember, the HC1 is very similar to the AX100 in both design and "spirit"). The HC3 was a cheap consumerized HD cam that lost so many important functions and overall quality... it was pretty sad.

Sony does seem to have figured out that there is demand for enthusiast level cameras with real manual controls on top of good auto functionality, and enough "pro" features to be usable in professional applications. Hopefully they will keep that "focus"! Now if they would just surprise us RX owners with firmware upgrades for 4K... not likely, but then again...