Re: Down Sampling 4K to 1920 X 1080P
 

Dennis,
I haven't sent any of my 4K footage to Blu-Ray yet, mostly just stock-piling it for now. But, I did test the method I have been using for resizing HD to SD. Someone on here recommended using VirtualDub (free) to resize video, saying that Sony Vegas wasn't very good at that function. So, I tried with some 4K and what I did was bring my 4K into Vegas timeline and then render out as an uncompressed .avi file. Then I open VirtualDub and import that (huge) .avi and go to the filter section and choose resize, then input the SD size I want. VirtualDub creates the new file, and that's what I use for burning the DVD. I don't know if this is the best way or not, but going from 4K to SD worked and I would assume going from 4K to HD will work fine. Having said all that, I want to go back and see if Vegas really does a worse job of it. I did not get any "wow" factor when I viewed the down-converted 4K to SD. Still looked like regular SD to me.

It sounds like most guys here are just letting their NLE do the conversion for them and are happy with that.

The HDMI output does not output 4K during recording, but will output 4K during playback, IF it is connected to something that can handle the 4K. I don't have any 4K monitor to see for myself.

I have a BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 and have found that the camera HDMI does output during record if in any mode other than 4K, including 1280x720 120fps mode. I have contacted Sony to see what the HDMI output is and they wouldn't tell me. I'd think that if it were uncompressed, that would be a selling point for the camera, so since they aren't saying, I'm guessing it is not uncompressed.

Canon XF305 manual does not say what the output of the SDI/HDMI ports are either. But sometime after the camera was released, Canon published a series of white papers and in one of them, they give out the specs for these ports, so maybe the info will come out about the AX100 sometime later.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Len,

The instructions are wrong in that regard. There's no way to view the version info in version 1.0 firmware. During the upgrade process, but before the point of no return, the firmware installer will connect to your camera via USB and will display your current version number on the screen for you. Once you proceed and get the new version installed, you will then be able to view your version number from the camera's menu, like it says. Go for it.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I also notice that there is only one small metal loop on the strap that maybe a camera strap could be attached...does anyone have any recommendations for a carrying strap for this camcorder?...(so far loving this camera...I've owned many Sony camcorders over the years and like how they've pretty much got the form factor mastered with the right amount of hard buttons, features, and absence of useless features that used to crowd consumer camcorders....ok...it's just that dumb location of the focus magnifier button)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Thank you Mark!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Walked into Futureshop with the B&H website on my iPad and bought it with a further 10% reduction...also got an SD card marked $229 for $180

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

What I am looking for is a way to have a strap around my neck so I can hold the camera out from me just far enough to allow some freedom of movement while still close enough that I can see the LCD good. Currently using the Peak Design leash camera strap. I attach it to the single ring on the hand grip and then to the tripod attach point, with the purchase of the screw-in ring. There are still some twisting forces to deal with, but it's better than having both ends of the neck strap attached to the single point at the hand grip.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

OK...now that I've shot some 4k footage how do I get it into my Imac for editing? (All I've seen so far on the forum is some mac vs. pc flaming)...Is there a program that I need to convert it to HD?, and then will these files work in Imovie?....or?

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

As a three decade commercial still photographer, I'll be the first to say that the complexities of video make still photography and Photoshop look like paint by numbers. I have shot some pretty nice video over the past thirty years, but getting serious about it, in the current technical environment, is daunting. I'm slowly getting up to speed but things seem to advance so quickly, and the options appear infinite from my fledgling position.

Because of my relationships with major camera producers, I can get my hands on most any piece of gear for a few days for testing. Last week I spent a few days with the Sony AX-100. B&H has pages of glowing reviews from purchasers that, on their own, would entice a perspective purchaser over the edge. Shooting with the 100 and comparing it to the reviews, makes me realize how relative impressions are. While the 100 is a technological marvel in terms of what comes in a small $1800 package, closer scrutiny reveals very obvious deficiencies. I was prepared (by the capable reviewers here) for the rolling shutter and artifacting. What took me by surprise was the very mediocre dynamic range. Shooting average scenes the camera does fine, but try to capture a composition that includes sunlit green landscape and something like a bride strolling through it, not only won't it capture any detail in her dress, the color fringing and outright posterization in the brightest areas was extremely disappointing.

My old XHA1 had far more dynamic range than this new camera. While my fiddling with the AX100 was more out of curiosity, seeing what 4K was all about and exploring new codecs and frame rates, it convinced me that I needed to move way up the line to get anything that would come close to meeting my expectations. I realize it's not apples to apples (more like apples to Ferrari's) but I think I'm going to cut my teeth with a new Sony PXW-180.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Can you post some examples/samples of these "obvious deficiencies"? I'm reviewing some AX100 stuff I've shot, and I don't have ANY of the supposed troubles you're speaking of. It takes some time to get a handle on getting the best results from this camera, and handling the 4K video and workflow takes a bit as well, but these are not camera deficiencies, just adjustments to get the best results.

Yes, RS is a factor, as it is on almost every CMOS sensor based camera - it is a bit worse when in 4K modes, but even there you can work around it for some purposes. We have addressed certain other types of artifacting being the result of improper shutter speeds, or system issues unrelated to the camera (if your computer system is NOT 4K capable, you'll get lots of "interesting" results unrelated to the camera...). Other than those, you won't find a camera shooting sharper images anywhere close to this price point.

Color fringing, posterization, no "detail"... somehow sounds more like there is a problem either with the camera you used, or with your process, as these are NOT things I'm seeing with the AX100 - it's not flawless, but it's quite good, and properly handled should be a significant step up from an XHA1...

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I like this camera so much, I sold my 3 chip camera. I won't repeat the positive attributes. It is the best bang for the buck.

Knowledge of exposure is necessary and I don't think an amateur will grasp the concept using this camera right out of the box. There is no perfect camera but the 1" sensor produces......... Beautiful DOF.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I use my AX100 recording 4K for stage shows on a wide shot as a 'safety' shot, and our other cameras are Panasonic AG130 and 160's. When both the AX100 and the wide Panasonic have been beside each other you can definitely see that the Panasonic have about 2 stops more dynamic range than the AX100.

As soon as you set up for spotlight use, so as not to blow out highlights, you can easily lose most of the rest of the a dark stage on the AX100. (it blows out quite easily).

However, in post, the AX100 XAVC S 4k footage can be tweaked up a VERY long way without objectionable noise, much more than the Panasonic AVCHD footage.

I just did this yesterday actually, it amazed me how far I could lift footage to match the Panasonics, and stay virtually noise free.

Cheers,

Vaughan

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Anyone who has shot Sony is aware they can tend to over expose and that adjusting the AutoExposure setting a tad to the negative is almost mandatory, that would probably bring back detail in the "highs" and reduce any blowout. As noted, there is usually a fair amount of detail in the shadows that can be pulled out. Got to dig it out in post, but...

I know that the DRO function in the RX10 and RX100 allows you to flatten the dynamic range by adjusting the settings so you get more range to work with... the range is there... a similar function is missing in the AX100, but could probably be implemented in the firmware were there a demand for it - not sure the processor would be able to do it on the fly for 4K, but it does for high bitrate 1080p.

It is funny how some people "try" the AX100 and declare it "deficient", while those who take a little time to work with it find it does a pretty decent job under many shooting scenarios... We've debunked many of the supposed "flaws" on this extensive thread, but it would take a day or two to dig through to find the "fixes"!!

If I took the first "results" of shooting and processing 4K, I'd have decided it wasn't "there" either, but with time and effort to get a working 4K computer system and figuring out how to tweak the camera for best results, I can now get reliably stunning results... wouldn't trade the AX100 for any other camera I've had along the way

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I agree Dave, the camera will easily blowout, so you need to be careful.

As has been said it is amazing what can be done with the footage in post. In post I can brighten or darken footage from camera or add contrast and it looks fabulous.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Thanks for your insight guys. I factored my inexperience into the results, just didn't have the unit long enough to explore more techniques. The last week I've been testing a C100, partly because I have every lens Canon makes from the 800mm down. Still leaning toward the Sony PXW-180 I think.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Couldn't agree with Dave's comments more. You can't pick up the AX100 and declare it incompetent within a few hours or 2 days. You need to learn how to get the most out of it and you will most certainly need to use the manual controls.

But used properly, you just can't find a better 4K picture anywhere near this price point. We just got back from Europe and I was shaking my head at the output quality...amazing. :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ken, the quality of the images is phenomenal indeed. I hate editing the 4K as it really slows things down, but the footage looks so good and is SO tweakable. Great camera.

I find it's tricky getting the exposure right, from my previous cams I tend to overexpose and that is not necessary with this cam and in fact is not advisable because as Dave pointed out these Sony's tend to be a bit hot out of the box.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Here's some of the first footage I shot with this camera(except opening skyline shot which was done on a Sony Nex7)....auto mode with challenging live performances and stage lighting....sound is with onboard mic.. 4K footage was downconverted to HD before editing...

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I mentioned it in this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...-stops-dr.html that I was surprised how easy it was to pull back detail from underexposed areas without any noticeable sideeffects. Using this technique does slow down realtime preview considerably and increases render times but I only switch on the layers that provide this function when I render the footage, otherwise, after I applied the effect I leave the layer disabled to get real time edit performance. The 50mbs codec holds up remarkably well when pushed in post.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

The AX100 in Bogota:


Trip up and down the mountain by tram, some acrobatics, and music.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

OK, everyone "report" this message to remind Chris to give the AX100 it's own sub forum!

Hey Chris, how about that form for these now not so new cameras ("new" replacements might be announced soon!). Probably need a place for these 1" class cameras, the AX100, X70, RX10 and RX100, and/or a "4K" section both options are viable, as all the above are using the same sensor and XAVCS, so they are related...

A 4K section is also viable, as there will be plenty to learn and share about 4K/UHD capture, post processing, and hopefully delivery!

Whatever the structure, both of these subforum suggestions are worth sorting out, there's enough on this never ending AX100 thread to be a subforum all by itself... and 4K is roaring down upon us, best to get ahead of it!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Perfect Dave; how do you report a message?

I said the same thing about 50 pages back.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I didn't know either, but it's the little red/white triangle at the bottom left. It says it's supposed to be used for spam or offensive posts, but I did it. Hope that request wasn't a rhetorical one...

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

... done ...."Report Post" #1740 from this thread.....

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Nope, I wanted to remind Chris the AX100 community needs it's own playground <wink>.

I self reported once I posted, so Chris knows what I'm up to!

Suggested a "4K" area and a section for these 1" class Sony cameras (AX100, X70, RX series Cybershots).

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

That was an excellent tactic, Dave -- brilliantly executed too. Well done, sir.

We've had that for awhile:

HD and UHD ( 2K+ ) Digital Cinema Forum at DV Info Net

...but perhaps it needs to be re-branded and re-positioned.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

BTW - it's largely been reported in this thread that all CMOS sensors exhibit rolling shutter. This is not strictly true - for example the Sony F55 features a global shutter. The sensor was designed from the ground up for all pixels to be read out at the same time. Of course you pay for that. Roughly $29k at B&H. Don't expect to see global shutters at this price point any time soon.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

The black magic 4K camera has global shutter and is just a bit more expensive then the ax100.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I saw a YouTube video that shows a good example of rolling shutter and then the same footage of it after being corrected in FCP... It still wasn't perfect but it improved it quite a lot....

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Len - Thanks for pointing out that FCPX can help correct for rolling shutter. Seems to me I heard this before but obviously forgot about it.

I've been struggling with what next cam to get and that problem been high up on my deal-breaker list; consequently, the short list is really short. And getting shorter as the 3CCDs have become really few and far between in addition to some that have other compromise issues, low light capability being one of them.

Not asking for perfection, just some improvement. Some cams apparently have built-in software that try to help with rolling shutter and I wonder if combined with FCPX there would be a greater improvement.

As an aside, when FCPX added multicam to it's capability I tried it out with a piano player and it was unbelievable how well it worked. Very first time just basically drag-and-drop the B-cam clips and bingo! Matched up with the audio perfectly!

Thanks to your post I'll be on the lookout for more information about the FCPX rolling shutter correction now.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Can anyone comment on the firmware upgrade for the FDR-AX100?. Is the focus improved significantly, and is the zoom rocker control improved?
Thanks
Denny

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

For anyone interested in purchase, B&H has a $200 price drop on this camcorder.
Denny

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

SONY FDR-AX100 PROBLEM

Using my Sony FRD-AX100 cameras (yeah, I have two of them) has become nearly impossible.

I would like to use the cameras in PROGRAM AE mode. If I press the PROGRAM AE mode button, I am presented with this message box on the screen:

"Set the adjustment for brightness to auto."

After much looking up and reading the manual and following the menu trees I concluded there was no way to find anything labeled brightness. So perhaps one of my custom settings (AGC LIMIT or something else) prompted the message.

So I returned the cameras to the factory default state using that menu selection.

Surprise! The error changed, but the PROGRAM AE was still unavailable.

The error message now read:

"Turn off Intelligent Auto."

Interestingly, if I went to another menu selection and selected it, or pressed the MANUAL button (or nearly any other button) the error returned to the original:

"Set the adjustment for brightness to auto."

Still can’t activate the PROGRAM AE mode.

Both cameras have firmware version 2.

Does anyone have any solution to this problem? How do I use PROGRAM AE on the FDR-AX100?

Tom

PS: Just spent an hour with three different Sony "Tech" support reps who didn't really have any knowledge of the camera - one in fact had never heard of it - without getting any help whatsoever.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Don't have an AX100 but several small Sony's. With exposure set to Intelligent auto the camera has control of everything !!! Exposure needs to be set to just " auto " for AE to work. I assign AE shift to the control dial which you should be able to do in the menu. If you have the camera in manual for all of iris,gain and shutter speed then of course AE shift cannot be available you need to place at least one of them in auto mode. Depending on my cameras I have shutter speed set manually and an up gain limit so that auto will control iris and gain for exposure and AE shift I have on the control wheel for me to control how dark or light I want the image compared to how the camera would like it. I find that Sony's over expose a little so usually have AE shift at around - 0.5.

If you want to run the camera in aperture or shutter priority just set that function to manual and AE shift will still work as long as one of the parameters is in auto.

Ron Evans

EDIT : Just read you post again. Not sure if you are long time Sony user or not but Sony modes are strange !! On different cameras the switch between manual and auto is called different things. However they all seem to operate the same. Switching to manual means the manual controls are available NOT that they are in manual until they are controlled. As far as I can tell from the AX100 manual, Program AE is the switch between auto and manual. In the menu what is auto can be Intelligent auto or normal auto. For AE shift control you need Intelligent auto OFF. Pressing Program AE button should switch between auto and manual. In manual control pressing the iris, gain or shutter buttons will allow you to use the control wheel to change the value and the LCD indication will change from "A" to nothing in front of the parameter. Any parameters with À`in front are in auto. So for shutter priority set shutter to say 60 and nothing will be in front of 60 in the LCD and iris and gain will have A in front of them. Pressing the Prgram AE while in manual will return to full auto mode. Pressing Program AE and turning the control dial will control exposure( default dial parameter ) but with the camera deciding what parameter to use to brighten or darken the image. The difference to AE shift is that the camera controls everything but in AE shift a parameter can be fixed or have a limit set. So iris or shutter speed can be set manually and AE shift will then control the other 2 parameters for image brightness. I am just reading from page 38 in the manual but with lots of Sony experience !!! Not sure if I covered what you want .

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I've got the AX100, frankly never used the Program AE button... it appears to me at first to be a "vestigial tail" of unknown use, and the manual references to it are not the way it works nor the way I've used the camera...

If you hit the "manual" button, it enables the wheel, which you can set to various things including exposure and AE shift - I've used both, AE shift perhaps being a little better for letting the camera decide, though I'm not sure(?!). Basically a quick and dirty "global" adjustment to image brightness, with the camera choosing the way to get there, but you also can set one of the manual settings below, and that seems to lock in, letting the camera make adjustments to the un-set items to try to meet the "global" adjustment.

All I need to do to make iris, gain/ISO or shutter changes is to press the applicable button, the indicator changes (highlight box), and the wheel takes control of that function, if you want to adjust another function, hit that button, and use the wheel... full manual control of each setting. press again, the little "A" comes up, that setting is auto. Press a different button, the wheel controls that, manual gives you "global" adjustments...

After playing with it a bit, I realized what the "warning" message actually means - it is a single button reset to "stock" AUTO settings! Play with all the buttons, you you find you've gotten into trouble, hit the Program(med) AE, the camera is in full auto... literally in means press that button to "Set the adjustment for brightness to auto."!

I realize that the instructions incorrectly call out the function of the button, and it somehow seems unintuitive to have a "panic" button on a higher end camera.... but sure looks to me like that's exactly what it is!

Never used it before, spent most of my time memorizing the three button (iris/gain/shutter), and the wheel, plus the ND filter functions... now I know it's there, I guess it's a comfortable "emergency" button to return to full auto...

Sure would be nice if it were something fancier like a way to program presets or something cool like that, but I've just been tickled to have full manual in a simple to use layout... maybe they will make it do something cooler in a later firmware release or something, but I think this solves your "mystery"?

Honestly, I never really looked at the manual, I just started fiddling with the buttons until I figured out how they interact, then set about memorizing location and function so I can dial in what I want while shooting. Early on I found that getting shutter down (60 seems about right, anything above 125 causes stutter in 4K mode) was needed, other than that, a little exposure/AE tweak as needed, and everything looks pretty good...

Hopefully this helps you get it under control, it really is a sweet "manual" design after all the earlier Sonys that were "sort of" manual, but not really. I come from a photography background, so being able to dial in iris and shutter for effect is nice to have once again.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Just remember you are only in manual if you set a value for iris ,gain and shutter other wise the camera is in auto using the parameters for which you have not set a value !!! If on the lcd any of the parameters has an A in front of it then you are in auto exposure. You may well have set one or two of the parameters to a value but if just one has an A in front the camera has control !!! Has worked this way on Sony`s since Hi8 days. What ever they call the button ( program AE in this case ) gets you back to full auto ( as set in the menu to auto or Intelligent auto ).

Ron Evans

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi
I have Canon HV20 and want to buy FDR-AX100.
What is your opinion, to upgrade or not?
Regards

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

@ Ron - I suppose I could clarify that you can go 100% manual easily if needed, or the equivalent of shutter or aperture priority (or I guess "gain" priority?). It takes a little bit to get a handle on the settings, but once you get the hang of it, it's an easy camera to operate.

@ Slobodon - without question, that's a significant upgrade, should be good if it's on your radar. Keep in mind that the jump from HDV to XAVCS will require computer upgrades. The AX100 is a much more substantial camera size and weight wise, and build quality difference is huge.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi Dave,
thank you for the answer, very useful.
I know on HV20 name of the recorded file is for_example.m2t, what is the name of the file which
AX100 record on SD card?
Can I remove SD card from AX100, connect it to PC(powerful enough for 4K) copy it and play?
What player you are using?
Sorry if this written somewhere.
Tnx in advance

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

You can record AVCHD (.m2ts) or XAVCS (.mp4). I've never tried playing right off a card, but I'd guess you could - I usually ingest for edit in Vegas. Windows media player seems to have been able to handle the ingested files well enough.

There's a huge thread here with most anything you could ever want to know about the AX100, but understandably you could get lost in it for days, so even though it answers most anything anyone could ever ask (although oddly not the Program AE button...), it's probably easier to ask. 4K can be a little tricky because of the 30p (keep shutter speed down enough to allow some natural motion blur, otherwise the sharpness and motion don't mix well), but you can always fall back on the 1080/60p if needed.