Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Auto focus was pretty good last week when I shot 5 dance concerts, however when the stage lights went out at the end of each item, the camera would reset the auto focus at 0.1 metres, thus completely screwing up the start of the next item when the lights came back up..

I had to teach myself to switch to manual before the end of each act, but of course during 6 hours of recording I forgot sometimes.

Why doesn't it stay where is was until it has something to focus on is beyond me, it would make much more sense.

Cheers,

Vaughan

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

How can it know whether there is something to focus on or not until it checks through it's focus range? Fortunately us humans are far more intelligent than most cameras.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Yes Alister, but it ALWAYS resets back to 0.1 metres. That's the frustrating bit. It means NOTHING is in focus. Surely they could easily design it to rest at a midway point instead of 0.1 metres!

Cheers,

Vaughan

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Trusting the camera's autofocus to know where to focus in the transition from pitch black to bright light is like taking a u-turn with your car and halfway letting go of the steeringwheel...

There doesn't exist a camera that will get it right in autofocus mode if it doesn't have anything to focus on, you always will have to go manual if you want to have a guarantee it remains in focus.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I assume it has touch spot focus that I use all the time on my small Sony's. Set in manual focus and use touch spot focus. The camera will then stay at that focus until changed. I set all my fixed unattended Sony's this way. My wife uses the NX30U for closeups and just touches where she wants the focus to be. If you are not moving the camera it will stay great for a show with lights going up and down etc with AE shift negative as all the Sony's over expose.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I also use the touch focus a lot on my sony handicams though I have noticed that on my cx730's that has become less reliable and slower then on my older xr520. I always need to double check with a magnifying loupe te be sure.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Vaughan, when shooting a concert, wouldn't you be better off with MF anyway? Depending upon your distance from the stage, I'd think the focal points would all be pretty close.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Ron, yes, it has touch focus, touch exposure and a combination of both. For some events, if you are using AF, the touch focus is the best way to go. Tracking focus works quite nicely too and was one of the improvements in the last firmware upgrade.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I have a pen sized stylus with a rubbery tip on it much smaller than the end of my finger, Designed for touch screens on phones I think and it works great for precision touching an area of the screen whilst in the spot focus rectangle....bonus no greasy finger tip marks.
Can't remember where it came from a stocking stuffer I think
Has " Merkury" embossed on it

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Good idea, Bruce.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

In fact, Panasonic camcorders with touch-screens come with a plastic pointer that is tethered to the camera to use for both focusing and picking menu items on the touch screen.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Haven't thought of that, definitely worth trying out.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Still learning a lot
 

Love trains and trains travel... real amateur here but check it out....

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

After having used this camcorder for 3 moths as a Limo camera for quinceanera's and my CYA cam I must say I'm still impressed with this little beast. Nothing else is on the market that matches it right now. Sony nailed this little camera.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Any "field reports" on the 2.0 firmware upgrade?

I've been fine with what I presume is 1.0... just wondering if the upgrade is a big or at least noticeable improvement... haven't gotten around to trying to "install" it yet!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I noticed when playing back footage I shot in 120fps mode that there was some sort of pulsing in and out of focus. I was shooting in auto focus and had the steady shot set to normal mode. Installed firmware 2.0 and shot more 120fps and that pulsing is still present. BTW- the instructions say you can check you version number via the menu but my camera didn't show any such menu option. Now I've upgraded, the version option is listed under general settings. During the upgrade process, but before the point of no return, the firmware installer will connect to your camera via USB and will display your current version on the computer screen.

Mark

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Just did the installation of the 2.0 : all went well but it will reset the camera and you will see no sign of life during the entire process. so don't panic (like I did) if you see the lcd going blank, charging light blank. It will get back by itself once the process is done.
can't comment on the new features since I barely know the camera (bought it today as you know).
The update starts with few instructions on the screen of the computer. will check the USB connection (remember to set it as mass storage). Confirm on the LCD of the camera and will ask you to safely remove the usb (camera) from windows, then confirm on the LCD of the camera and it goes all blank while the update continues. Again don't panic, wait and don't disconnect the USB cable.
Let the update finish.

Under the 2.0 there is the firmware version in the menu, and I immediately checked if the multiport saw my vivitar remote and still does. Again under the 2.0 I see more hunting in low light (I mean the AF hunts) : it wasn't hunting that much with the previous firmware , but that could be a good sign because now I see that after hunting a little it gets the focus better. Unfortunately there are no settings for the speed of the AF , so for now I can only compare it with the XA20 (that has several setting for the AF speed) and it looks pretty much the same in terms of "getting it right". In real shooting you don't want the AF to be too fast because it will keep hunting like crazy: it has to be slow(ish) to move smooth from one point to another (new) point. For what I need it should be fine, but don't expect instant acquisition like still cameras do. I dont' see any zoom speed settings for the rocker , but it's there (achievable from a remote with selectable speeds via mutiport): so Sony decided to hide the feature believing that we didn't deserve it or to sell other cameras for more money . Same as usual, nothing new to see here....
You know the story of my remote but I'll repeat it for others who may be interested:
the Vivitar lanc remote works great via multiport and 10pin adapter cable. The vivitar comes with the 2.5mm to 10pin cable. I can confirm that a varizoom vzrock doesn't work, and a libec 3DV doesn't work as well. The good news is that the vivitar gives 8 constant zoom speeds selectable on the remote and while shooting plus a variable speed. so 9 speeds in total.
also gives on/off screen info for the lcd (while the hdmi monitor will still be clean).
a photo button
focus (manual) + and -
camera on and off from the remote
start and standby recording

note: at the slowest setting of the (constant) zoom speed (on the remote) now it gives a beautiful slow zoom , well done and thanks for hiding THAT, Sony. It took a 20bucks vivitar to get that beautiful thing (slow zoom is what I like most zooming, when I have to). So thanks to Vivitar and thanks for nuthing to Sony LOL

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Dave what you think about this?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/913654-REG/sony_adpmaa_multi_interface_shoe_adapter.htmlthen this one on top of it:
Standard Flash Hot Shoe Mount Adapter for Sony Camera A100 A200 A230 A290 A300 | eBay

or something similar with a screw-ring

or this one?
www.ebay.com/itm/181451876737


it should be steady enough to hold a 4inch bar with standard shoe mount, no? .. let me know what you think, please

the other way (also seriously considering the next purchase of the XLR attachment) would be a bracket like this (and keep the multiport free for the xlr thing)
http://shop.dm-accessories.com/colle...products/wam36
and then drill a couple of holes to attach the XLR

the camera deserves our attention (no questions) but WHY we have to suffer like this to get a stupid light and a shotgun like everybody else? well, like you said we have to do what we have to do... LOL so be it.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I can't think of a single Sony camera (at least under the consumer lineup) that has has anything other than the "2 speed" rocker, mirrored on Sony "remote" controls - you have to 'feather" to get slow, but it's there - I was able to get good control handheld with VF, but other configurations would be "harder" to keep the fine control.

I think I have an older variant of that Vivitar under another brand (they just buy the right to label a Chinese generic). Was a pretty compatible one as I recall, may have to get one just to try with the RX/AVM1 combo and see if by ANY chance it works! Probably won't, as the Cybershot MULTI is a bit of a mystery...


Now about that "really big shoe" problem!

The first two adapters you linked are for Alpha (the old proprietary Minolta mount), so NO, definitely not those!

The third one has been referenced on this thread previously... it would "work", but IMO the design needs modification (they are welcome to be invited to this thread to "borrow" my design ASAP!).

For some odd reason, I can't attach photos... neither in Chrome or IE, and just tried a second machine and another subforum....messaged Chris since it looks like there's a wider problem!

When I can again attach pix, I'll upload the whole instruction set, it's easy to make a VERY good adapter setup!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

this is the remote that works with the AX100 and the multi to 10pin cable
Vivitar 8 Button Remote Zoom Control for Camcorder w LANC or A V R Jack | eBay
Vivitar comes with the 2.5mm to 10pin cable, don't know if the others do too (like ebenk for example). The vivitar is 20bucks so ... trust me, after that you'll zoom at the constant speed of your choice.
about the shoe I went for the bracket. I actually like it and will serve me also for future things
I'll attach the bracket to the camera, and then to a macro rail like this one
2 Way Fotomate LP 01 Macro Focusing Rail Slider for Canon Nikon Sony Pentax | eBay

the rail helps balancing the camera on the tripod or on a shoulder mount. Actually I have it already mounted on both and then I attach the camera(s) using the same quick release (manfrotto).
In case don't buy the rail from ebay, but get it at adorama (it's the same, branded flashpoint).Butit gives both 1-4/20 and 3/8 screws, so I like the 3/8 better, plus the movements are tighter and again better
this is the link:
http://www.adorama.com/MCFRSS.html


thanks for your help!

P.S. about the vivitar 8-buttons remote: is fine as it is, but the zoom lever "clicks" and that's annoying. How to fix it:
it's easy. in the back there are tree screws (unpeal the sticker). open the unit and locate the two switches for the zoom. cut a piece of paper to cover both, then apply just 1 piece of gaffer's tape on top of the paper and the whole switches. close and enjoy: no more "clicks"

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Now you mention the clicking, I KNOW I had that remote, might still have it somewhere! I'll probably pick one up at the cheap price, couldn't hurt!

That bracket actually looks quite nice for the price - I typically use flash brackets, and the only one I've got that will "fit" is the ONLY one I've ever seen, or I would have recommended it! It's part of my "collection" of mounts/rigs if I need to go handheld, stuff I mostly retired when the "magic eyeball" appeared! Keeping the camera stable is more critical with 4K, so I'm digging in the bone pile!

I'll still post my adapter now I finally got the pix shot, just depends on when DVi will allow it again! It's an easy project, but there are times when I may want that MiShoe "available"!

I posted a few things a while back with no problem, so not sure why it's not working... I'm sure someone at mission control needs to flip a switch or something!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

of course, please do that. attaching anything to that shoe can be risky if not done correctly: if you have a good option then please post it.
Now I see how 4K REALLY brings up all the defects with my technique. Any mistake is now clearly visible. Holding steady becomes crucial. Stability has been and always will be the first thing to worry about with any video, but in 4K becomes even more important. I shot an interview for fun and the face detection did a good job, but every movement of the camera is visible when you can count the facial hair of the talent (one by one), in 4K. I was handholding in purpose, but usually I mount on a shoulder support.
I didn't see any particular problem panning but the real test will be next week at a soccer game at night, where panning is frequent and people running fast will really put the camera to test. The bitrate should help keeping things togheter when panning but still I haven't decided if I want to shoot 30p 4K or 1080 60p. I'll set shutter priority 1/125 to stay safe. It's a new camera for me, lots of unknown and doubts but ehy...there's gotta be a first time for everything in life. let's hope for the best.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Yep, all that detail raises a few "issues"... not "unhappy" about it, it just is part of the package! From what I and others have found, keeping that shutter speed down helps give some "natural" motion blur that takes some of the stutter/shimmer/edge off the footage. Higher speeds you get a series of sharp stills though, which may hold some advantage in some shooting scenarios - still have more experimenting to do!

The lower shutter speeds also seem to help with RS/skew - you probably want to experiment with some whip pans before you go live fire, as skew can be pretty bad with "auto".

I ran some initial tests with the XAVCS 60p mode, it's definitely not as stunning as the 4K, but I'd rate it as quite usable - be aware that mode changes will change BOTH recording and playback, so your clips can seemingly "disappear" - don't worry, they are still there when you change modes again (freaked me out at first!).

Haven't heard back from Chris, but I've got the pix and instructions for a "bulletproof" shoe adapter ready when I can upload them!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

It looks like when 4K came nothing else seems good enough anymore :) Anthony, if you plan to shoot soccergames and follow the players around from a tripd, shooting at 60p will be much better as opposed to 30p in 4K, no matter what the resolution is, 30p is actually a too slow framerate for fast action sports, you definitely would have to shoot at 60i or p (or 50i -p when you live in pal land)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

thanks noa,
I shoot from the press box, on tripod, so it's from above and from a distance (100-200feet)
here's what I usually do depending on the camera: if it's daylight then no problem (with any camera) so let's skip that. The challenge comes at night under the lights of the stadium.and depending on the stadium they can be uneven, poor or bright enough to let a decent shutter speed compensate the gain.
Again I'm only considering panning where I know that the shutter can't go below 1/100 but the bitrate makes a huge difference, and more than the framerate (30p or 60p do look almost the same for this particular shoot). As always with any cmos if you have to pan don't overdo with the zoom (closer you get and more problems you get panning, and that's obvious)

camera EX1r : 30p , 1/100 . very good (35mbps)
camera ea50 : the zoom is not good enough so I'll skip it (but the panning was good enough to be honest)
XA10 : 30p , 1/100 or 1/250 : good panning (28mbps) . 1/250 gets better everything but will be of course darker.
XA20 : 60p , 1/100 or 1/250 : very good panning but only on MP4 35mbps , avchd @28mbps are not so good, same settings and the XA10 was slightly better)

now it comes the AX100 at that unbelievable resolution: so who knows.. I'll try 4K the first half , then 1080 the second half. 1/125 should help and the higher bitrate should help too (on paper). I'm planning to try 1/180 as well.

I'll report back the results. For now any advice on the camera will be VERY welcome :)


P.S. the stills guys (who shoot from the field) all use shutter priority of 1/500 minimum , ASA 3200 or 6400 with the new cameras so for them it will be 2.8 all the time. Note the 1/500 minimum!

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

The ax100 resolution won't help in getting smooth pans, a high framerate does, 25 or 30p will give you a stuttery motion if you pan too fast, it won't be visible on the players you follow but you will notice it in the background.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

and that Noa is the key to this whole thing for single player sports like figureskating and even american style football. The subjects are held full frame in the centre of the image. What goes on in the background is never noticed. stutters arn't observable because the background is motion blurred anyway. Soccer is probably different however due to the prevelant extremely wide shots encompassing every one on the field

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Hi Bruce,
I'm going to shoot AX100 waiting for the FZ1000

Noa
I'm running tests right now (it's sunny daylight here in NYC, so the tests are not really significant for what I need)

And I'm getting even more confused LOL

out of curiosity I'm keeping the XA20 as a reference because that's the camera that did all the work so far and I know the results)

108060p MP4 @35mbps can't even get close to the same settings of the AX100 . yeah, they are THAT better. As for panning they are the same

BUT

4K is on another planet , 30p and you're right, panning will be a serious challenge.

but again the resolution is IMPRESSIVE. like HD vs SD pretty much

WOW . got the camera yesterday and I didn't expect THAT KIND of beauty.

so here where I am right now: I'm willing to change my shooting style to accommodate the AX100 in 4K . I'll do anything to keep the 4K , anything. Even tie the handles of the tripod if I have to. LOL

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

That's the key when you shoot feature films where you either pan slowly or follow a subject to take the attention away from the background but I don't know of any multiplayer sport, like soccer, where they take closeups from one player and follow him constantly around. I don't know if you ever have shot soccergames, I did and 25p is useless, you get that strobing stuttering kind of effect that is very distracting, something that is no issue if you shoot 50i or 50p. I don't know if you watch the current worldseries soccer games in Brazil, those are very smooth images which can't be achieved in 25p and I"m sure they use high framerate camera's to show very slomo replays as those are very smooth as well, just try to slow down 25p by 50%, that looks like a slideshow, that's the only thing I don't like about shooting in 4K now and that's that it does not have 50P as a option. You can always shoot at 1080p 50p which will be better then 4K at 25p with the ax100 for fast moving sports, something I would do if I had to cover such an event.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Exciting times Anthony

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

oh I see. No , Im shooting the official coverage of the game from the above, main camera and 1 camera only. I never close-up on a single player but I keep always 1/3rd of the field to show the play. The close-ups are done with more dedicated cameras, usually on the field. I'm doing it for years , sometimes even 4 games a week
4K is not THAT bad panning, not even at 30p. Sure it takes more care but again I'm willing to do anything to produce 4K. ANYTHING

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

That's the point I"m trying to make, "4K" does not have anything to do with getting a stuttery motion when doing a fast pan, the framerate does. You get better results shooting at 1080p 50p then 4K at 25p in such a case, the stutter will only appear sharper in 4K :).

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

not really. anything that moves in the viefinder and the shutter speed gets the spotlight as the main actor. then the bitrate and then the framerate. So in the order shutter , bitrate because it's digital out of a cmos sensor, and last the framerate for moving targets.
panning adds more stuff to the plate , but if you don't get it right with the shutter speed first and a decent bitrate recording then everything will move in your frame.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

You are forgetting rolling shutter where I have seen some pretty bad examples from the ax100 so that will be fun following fast moving subjects, but at least it's in 4K, so no problem right? :)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

yes the rolling shutter gets more visible with the AX100 in 4K but if you add regular "movements" due to a slow shutter speed then you'll get the best of the two worlds in one shot.

that said what the AX100 can do in 4K is way past my best hopes. It's something close to amazing. Will make my footage of that game stand out and beat the competition LOL

about the AX100 I saw some posts talking about how bad is 1080p ? and where THAT comes from? compared to the XA20 the 1080p of the AX100 could pass for 4K in comparison if it wasn't that the camera surpasses every single camera that I know of in the real 4K. But 1080 is great, way better than XA20 (no match, hands down)

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

I don't have "huge" experience with the AX100 (who does, right?!), but let me try to "sort" a few things out.

I was concerned with skew/RS, as there have been some seriously skewed videos posted.... we all know it's a CMOS issue, BUT here's what I noticed using the VF - skew was more noticeable as shutter speeds were higher, 30p is "worse" than 1080/60p, which is actually about the same as my PJ7xx series when apples to apples are compared. SO that's part of the shooting equation... Take a little time looking through the VF while fiddling with settings and waving the camera about, you'll find the RS/skew is HIGHLY variable, and manageable.

Now the "stills" photogs were mentioned, along with a FAST 1/500 "minimum" shutter speed - the reason for that is that the STILLS guy is trying to "freeze" a perfectly sharp image, preferably with a nicely shallow fuzzy background - a "capture" of the moment as it were... You know, drops of sweat and grimmaces and all... frozen!

My first tests of the AX100 let the camera run "auto", and in bright summer sun, the shutter was also "fast", the results being 30 sharp images per second, and NOTICEABLE "stutter" in the VF and sometimes onscreen on playback - the "shimmer" and "stutter" some complain about seems to stem from this super sharp series of what are effectively STILLS due to high shutter speed! This can allow you to "frame grab" effectively, and of course looks "super sharp", but you run into temporal motion "artifacting" which can range from minor to horrific - if you turn up "sharpness" on the display, the pulsing can be nauseating!

SO, here's the flip side as "video dudes" - our goal is to capture MOTION naturally (see where this is going yet?) - after realizing that the super sharp stills caused fast motion to look "funny", I started fiddling with shutter speed (thank goodness this is a pretty well designed "manual" camera!). The slower that shutter speed, the more "motion blur" will enter in the exposure period of EACH frame as whatever is moving will move THROUGH the frame and NOT be "frozen". Pausing video shot at slower shutters confirms that now there is a degree of motion blur, not "30 sharp stills".

THAT said, I haven't experimented enough to know what the "magic" shutter speed is, 30 seems a little TOO low (except in low light, where you NEED the added sensitivity from the shutter being open longer), but 60-125 seems to look pretty "natural" on playback (no stutter, minimal "shimmer" in high detail). The motion blur also seems to make the skew less objectionable, bonus points!

Ken posted pretty much the system I ended up with - set the shutter manually to what "feels" right, and lock it in - set the wheel to "exposure" so you can override the camera if needed to boost or cut exposure, use the ND's as desired/needed to balance Iris/iso/gain. Use a negative AE shift if exposure is too "hot", as is typically needed on Sony cameras. I shot this method at an amusement park, and the footage was still stunning, with nice natural "motion blur" when there was fast action. I would have preferred a tripod/monopod to help keep the camera stable, but was travelling light.

Hope that will help with the initial learning curve! And yes, even the first auto tests were QUITE good, temporal artifacts and all! This camera will spoil you VERY quickly, and yes you will desire to shoot EVERYTHING in 4K - try not to forget that you will likely DELIVER in 1080, remember that you can "frame wide" and pan/crop in post (added work, but an option). If slow mo is desired, remember the camera has other "modes", with attendant resolution loss, but... they are available.

Enjoy!!

Inevitably I'm sure you'll all be dealing with how to process and display 4K, so I should mention that I saw the Seiki 39" 4K TV on ebay for $360/offer, shipped... apparently new, no less! It's not "great", but with tweaking, I'm happy enough with it, it changes things to be able to actually SEE stills and video from these cameras (RX10 stills took on a whole other quality!). You of course need computer/graphics capable of 4K, but I'm using on motherboard Intel graphics, seems adequate! It's ALL 30p of course...

Haven't tried uploading, and I think Chris is enjoying the 4th! But I won't forget to upload the adapter pics when the opportunity arises.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

It's not that the 1080/60p/50Mbps XAVCS is "bad", it's actually noticeably better than 1080/60p/28Mbps AVCHD, it would have been a perfect "incremental improvement" by itself (thus the RX100M3, GRRRR, no 4K!)

It's just that "how you going to keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen 4k?" (couldn't resist!). The "looking through a window" effect just makes everything else seem "soft"!

Ultimately, the average viewer on a typical screen maybe wouldn't see a big difference, but for a content producer, we have to look at this "stuff", and it's pretty obvious what you get with the 4K... all naysayers aside.

Yeah, we have the question of "how to deliver end product", there aren't that many "cheap" 4K TV's and monitors, but as Peter pointed out, there are more and more super high resolution SMALL displays, and they look really good.

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

perfect, Dave
thanks

I have a lot of experience about that with the XA20 and ea50 but let's don't talk about the ea50 now)
with the XA20 and shutter speed of 1/250 I get perfect footage of the soccer game. Really good. But dark because I'm shooting at night.
Now the idiotic Canon designers put 1/250 and jusp to 1/100 . nothing in between. So at 1/100 I get some decent footage but with motion and shutter.
Aso on the XA20 I get WAY better in MP4 because it records @35mbps
big difference compared to the same XA20 @28mbps
Still talking about panning of course
SO there is no doubt that the shutter speed is the first thing to care, then the bitrate while (sorry to contraddict Noa) the framerate seems to value very little (in terms of panning)

Yes, I'll shoot 30p 4K , no doubts about it. I'll try to don't pan too much I promise LOL

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

do you stream these games live Anthony?
Maybe we could watch

Re: Sony FDR-AX100
 

Higher frame rates do "add value" to the equation, at least in respect to smoother temporal motion. BUT, as a practical matter, when dealing with 4K... the AX100 is 30p, the Intel graphics chip is 30p, and the Seiki TV is 30p... not like I have ANY choice for higher framerates there on my "budget"...

2-3 years on, we will likely have 4K/240p/1 MillionMbps or whatever (or at least 4K/60p anyhow), but for now, it's "learn the limitations, shoot within them, enjoy 4K!"... I'll take it, since I am using "old" cards to record on with no prob, my "budget" computer and monitor/TV work, and it all looks good without breaking the piggy bank too badly!

The higher bitrate XAVCS is always there for a fallback if you run into problems with a specific shoot, I'm almost tempted to pick up a cheap CX900 for that reason, but if the AX100's come down... I know I myself am very disinclined to buy any "new" camera that doesn't have 4K, and the current ones with 1080/60p AVCHD really don't look THAT bad... except when compared to the AX100 4K! I suppose it's relative!