Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Josh,

Alister mentions that it's not got the dynamic range of the PMW-300 (successor to the EX3 and EX1r type cams) in his initial review (he estimated at 10-11 stops area) and that it also suffers a bit from highlight clipping.

So in HD mode I would EXPECT it to be not as good - especially bearing in mind the much lower price point - but then because of that 4K ready sensor it may well be as sharp - or even sharper. My C100 with its single, big "4K sensor" is certainly very sharp.

So we're back to the "is dynamic range more important than sharpness" type debate. Mind you, it's current single sensor technology versus a 6-7 year old 3 sensor one. I'd always want more dynamic range - but that's just me.

I stress I'm an ex EX3 owner/current owner of the PMW-300 and C100 (and TM900 still going strong) - but have never seen/handled this PXW-X70 cam in the flesh so take this for what it's worth...

Pretty interested in it as a toe in the 4K world though - but doubt I'll buy it until 2015 (or something else as there will be other, perhaps better options by then).

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I'd be surprised if there's any significant differences between the AX100 low light and that of the X70.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I agree with Ken that the low-light performance of the AX100 will be similar to that of the PXW-70 -same lens, sensor and processor.

Here is an AX100 4K low-light video:


Here is a 4K video taken at night comparing the AX100 and the GH4:

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I see the price of the FDR-AX100 and HDR-CX900 dropping here in Japan. $1,580 and $1,350 in stores and less on-line. Yamada-denki is not known for low prices, yet they show 10% discount.

Mark

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I did a non scientific but real world test yesterday at a wedding in a very dark candle lit only venue between a cx730, ax100, rx10 and gh4. I did not pixelpeep, just looked at the result from a normal viewing distance on a big screen.

I pushed each camera to it's max by selecting a shutter of 1/25th for all camera's, I had a f2.8 lens on the gh4 and did the test shot at 6400 iso, the rx10 was set at f2.8 and had a iso of 12800, the cx730 had a gain of 24db and the ax100 a gain of 30db

The difference between the cx730 and the ax100 was slightly in the advantage of the ax100 which had a bit brighter image but was a lot more detailed, the cx730 softens up a bit at max db while the ax100 retains much more detail

The gh4 was a bit brighter then the ax100 but appeared a bit less detailed.

The rx10 was the brightest of the bunch but also very noisy at 12800, at 8000 iso noise levels are acceptable and comparable with 6400 iso on the gh4

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Let's hope so for a X70R, I think they didn't even put UHS-II in the AX100, so to lessen complexity, may as well carry that over for the launch X70. By then ASICs would be powerful enough to do 4k60p while drawing low energy and outputting less heat.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

A longer preview and "Shooting With" video by Alister Chapman are here:

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/article/br...-pxw-x70_video

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

is the handle attached ON the MI shoe?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Alister,

In your preview article here: preview, you say "You can shoot at up to 60fps in 60i mode and 50fps in 50i mode. In 60i mode you also have 24fps."

I'm not sure if that's a typo but does this camera shoot in 'interlaced' format really?? I'm thinking that was meant to be a 'p'.

Thanks for the insight.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/br...-x70/features/
this Sony site tells:

Multi-format recording and 4K ready

The PXW-X70 records XAVC Long GOP 422 10-bit

1920 x 1080 50p/60p/50i/60i/ 30p/25p/24p at 50 Mbps and 35 Mbps,

1920 x 1080 50i/60i at 25 Mbps, as well as
1280 x720 50p/60p at 50 Mbps.
It is also possible to record AVCHD 420 8-bit at 1920 x 1080 and 1280 x720 and DV.
The PXW-X70 is also 4K ready and can handle 4K recordings with a future upgrade.

he can imho both .... FHD with 50/60p and 50i/60i

but not clear (but logic) ... is 50i/60i limited to 35 Mbit/s ??
but not clear (but logic) ... is 30p/25p/24p limited to 35 Mbit/s ??

Hans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I no longer have the camera but, yes it does shoot 50i and 60i, but I didn't check on the bit rates for every mode option, there are so many! However I think it will do 50i and 60i at 50Mbps.

It WILL shoot 24fps, 25fps, 30fps, 50fps and 60fps at 50Mbps 10bit 422 long GoP, so I see no reason why that wouldn't include 25fps/50i (more correctly 25i) or 30fps/60i (30i) at 50Mbps.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Alister write .... 25fps/50i (more correctly 25i)

LOL...yes if you know the EBU standards ...available since some years
but http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/br...-x70/features/ ... know it not..

additional question: outside from EBU ....in USA or Japan
it is the sam change to 1080i 25 instead of 1920x1080 50i to notice in the standards .. or not ??

Hans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes the correct EBU term is to use the frame hight, followed by i/p then frame rate in frames per second.

So, 1080i25, 1080p25, 2160p24 etc.

50i has never really made sense as the frame rate is 25fps, not 50fps. It's confusing to have 50i and 50p mean two different frame rates under the SMPTE system. The EBU system makes much more sense but even amongst EBU countries the SMPTE 50i standard still gets used. Fortunately interlace is slowly going the way of the dodo so 50i/60i is becoming less and less common anyway and I doubt we will ever see a 50 or 60fps interlace system, so i50 and i60 will probably never need to be used.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I think the real problem is that there is a difference between exposure rate ( the rate at which the camera takes pictures ) and time code frame rate. 50i or 60i have the same temporal motion as their progressive versions 50P or 60P they just have half the vertical resolution. So to me exposure rate makes a lot more sense rather than time code frame rate. 50i or 60i says that the exposure rate is 50 or 60 but it is interlaced meaning only half the vertical resolution ( a field ) is recorded or transmitted. Time code is 25fps or 30fps ( 29.97 NTSC ), two fields is a frame. So in a progressive only world someone who likes the smoother motion of a faster exposure rate needs 50P or 60P not covered in some of the disc specs at 1920x1080 for instance but the interlaced exposure rate is in the spec. Shoot at 50 or 60 progressive then convert to go to Bluray for instance and throw away half the information and let the player or TV fill in the missing fields !!!.

I just hope the X70 4K version manages to shoot 50/60P like my AX1 even if that means a factory upgrade to change to XQD cards.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Alister,

This camera leaves no space for the PMW-100 imho? Can we see it as a PMW-100 successor? Will the PMW-100 remain available after this release?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I notice that the camera is now available for preorder at B&H for Sept delivery @ $2,299.00.
Seems like an attractive price for such a feature rich camera

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Aye, there's the rub. And if most of your potential audience are still only able to play DVDs or watch mega-compressed YouTube on not-very-broad-at-all broadband...?

However, I do rather like the look of the X70 as a very competant, compact HD camera. I'm looking forward to reading a decent back-to-back review with the Canon XF200.

BTW - are you a regular visitor to the Watercress Line, Alister? I'll be working in Ropley signalbox on Sunday 24th. Pop in and say hello if you happen to be around.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Suggests a street price of below $2k by the end of the year. Very competitive!

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Received the same notice from B&H today. Considering the advanced feature set of X70, I too am surprised by the competitive $2,299 price.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Other than my NX5U which cannot shoot at 60P in 1920x1080 the other cameras I use ( CX700, NX30U and FDR-AX1 ) all shot at 60P. I just use a 60i project in Edius and mix them all just fine for export to BLuray or DVD. But I at least have all progressive files at source. I will get a X70 and maybe a X160 to replace my NX5U too. I will keep the NX30 for its wonderful image stabilizer though. I really do not like slow frame rates so hope the 4K upgrade for the X70 isn't just 30P.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

$2,299 is a nice price point.
I believe this will be the least expensive camera with an SDI connection, right?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

It indeed seems Bill. Even the Canon XA25 is a more expensive camera.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I can't imagine it would be at all a close contest. I use an XF100, and had thought about upgrading to the XF200. But recently I'm using the Sony FDR-AX100, and consider even this a step up from what I expect the XF200 will be. The XF cameras don't do very well in low light; the AX100 does. And the image sharpness of the FRD-AX100 bests the XF100. Stepping up to the added capability of the PXW-X70 over the FDR-AX100 really rules out any chance the XF200 has of a good showing.

About the attractive introductory pricing of the PXW-X70, the camera is '4K ready", not 4K. I haven't seen when the 4K upgrade will be available, nor whether it will be free or come with an additional price. When this settles down I'll probably add a PXW-X70, assuming the price is still in line.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I agree Ron,
but back we go again with the distribution. DVD are obsolete , bluray are unknown to the most, flash cards are "geeky" , youtube doesn't even play 60p (at the moment) and right now youtube means (at least for me) the most important distribution of my work. I see that at Sony's are pretty serious about 4K , and 4K is the future in my opinion, but when the distribution will be ready for 4K and 60p there will be new cameras for sure. I like (on paper) this new little thing here (but still no idea about the rolling shooter and the fact that the "reviewers" don't even go there sure doesn't look good. I don't know Ron... another 4K camera for stills? No thanks . I'm back with EX1r that (for the work that I do and make money with) is more than enough. But for 2.5K I'll think about it (for still and very controlled and shoots only).

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Charles, when you say the AX100 is sharper and better in low light than the XF100, are you talking about footage shot in 1080p? Or 4K downsized in post?

And, does anyone have info on whether the X70 retains the touch screen focus/exposure and the 720p120fps of the AX 100?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Indeed, and again, I'll say this will be a great "go to" camera for on-location multi-cam live streaming productions. Being able to fly to shoots with three Sony PXW-X70 (handles detached) and, say, a Roland VR3-EX switcher as carry-on is cost effective and stress reducing.

The $2,299 price is right... now if Sony will deliver the 3G-SDI formats to seal the deal for our multi-unit purchase. (1080/30p, 720/30p among the standard ones). I'll probably harp on this until Sony makes the User Manual pdf available.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The dual slot recording where it can record to two sd cards at the same time for instant backup is huge to me. That's my biggest fear currently with the AX100, that there will one day be an sd card failure and poof there goes my footage. That one feature alone makes me want to get this camera, although I'd prefer to wait and see how they will handle the 4k firmware upgrade.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

One of the video reports I saw- I think it was one of Alister Chapman's- specifically mentioned that the X70 definitely has the touch focus/exposure feature.
IMO that is a super useful feature- even more so with the enhanced DOF of the X70

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

In my case it is shot in 4K and downsized in post. I haven't had a reason to shoot directly in 1080p yet; I'm using the camera mostly for 4K; and just some 1080p for distribution.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

From what I've read, Sony has said it will be a paid upgrade.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes, X70 does have touch to focus, touch to expose.

The 4K upgrade will be a paid option. Available 1st half next year, probably around the same time as the live streaming upgrade. My guess would be a cost of $500 but that is a guess.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Knowing that I would be purchasing the x70 , I just purchased the AX100 (can be returned in 45 days - Best Buy) to test out it's capabilities and I am truly impressed. I am able to monitor the 4k files from the Edius timeline through Blackmagic Decklink to a Dell 32" 4K monitor (10 bit) and I am blown away by the quality. The low light capabilities is somewhat less than my PMW 200 but with the judicious use of gain that is easily compensated for (no perceptible grain on the 4K screen).

Getting to the point - since Sony has 4K operating well in the AX100 - why would they stage the release of 4K in the x70 somewhere 6 to 9 months down the line? I can only assume they are working on a different implementation of 4K in the professional camera - something that would incorporate a higher bitrate as well as 4.2.2 and 10 bit and perhaps even 60 p. I assume that it would still be working with SDXC cards as XQD would require a hardware upgrade.

On another topic - I preordered the x70 from B&H Photo - since they are accepting preorders does that mean availability within 4-6 weeks or longer?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Alister, thanks for the info. Does the X70 retain the 120fps of the AX100 at 720p?

Given the $2300 price I hope the estimate of $500 for 4K is accurate. I'm hoping that the 4K implementation will reflect several months of improvement, and the pricing works for me too. In fact, this will let us see the details of the 4K implementation before we decide whether it's worth it to us or not.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

If the past is any predictor, I ordered a Sony RX100 III as soon as it was available for preorder @ B&H.
The camera was shipped around 4 weeks later.
I'm thinking middle of September is probably a reasonable expectation.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I think you are correct, the 4K upgrade issue has to do with the XAVC codec:
The AX100 uses XAVC-S which I understand to be 8 bit, 4:2:0, long GOP.
I've read that the plan for the X70 is to provide for XAVC 10 bit, 4:2:2, 50 mbs, long GOP

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The 50-Mbps, 10-bit XAVC announced for the X70 is for HD. The AX100's XAVC-S requires 60 Mbps for 8-bit, 4:2:0, long-GOP QFHD. I think it's unlikely that, for 4K/QFHD on the X70, they'd be able to get a higher bit depth and better color encoding into a lower data rate.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The difference between the FDR-AX1 and the PXW-Z100 is that the the Z100 is 422 10bit XAVC and FDR-AX1 is 420 8 bit XAVC-S lacking HD SDI interfaces etc that are on the Z100. Both are waiting for a promised firmware update to make a few interface work etc including the ability to also record AVCHD 2.0. The new X180/160 have this range of codecs at 1920x1080 so I am hoping that they will include the full range when they upgrade the firmware and my AX1 will get 10 bit 422 but lack HD SDI interfaces etc much like there was the difference between the NX5U and the AX2000. Personally I hope the upgrade to the X70 is a hardware change to XQD cards and 60P. There has to be a reason for the extra space in the hand grip other than adding the SDI interface etc. Is there a vent on the bottom for the fan !!!

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

This seems to be a new Sony site for the X70. Additional images, details and specs:

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-...roduct-PXWX70/

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

.... one from the two is a lie....in cause to 1080 50p

___________________________________________________

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/br...-x70/features/
The PXW-X70 records XAVC Long GOP 422 10-bit 1920 x 1080 50p/60p/50i/60i/ 30p/25p/24p at 50 Mbps
____________________________________________________
https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-...roduct-PXWX70/
Recording Format: XALC Long : XAVC-L 50 mode - 1920x1080/59.94i, 50i, 29.97p, 23.98p, 25p
- 1280x720/59.94p, 50p

or should I to say: ..Ohh, It is a Sony..(website) ;-))

Hans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I too see a difference in specs to that quoted on the UK site. Not unusual for the North American site to get things wrong on first posting !!!

Ron Evans