Ok I give up with weights!!

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Tom

My very first rig also had "handles" and yes they will help take the load off but you end up only using one hand as you often need a hand for the camera. I found that I still got sore arms as you are still using your arms to hold up the heavy end and often just one hand so it gets tiring but you will get quite steady shots with grip points on the two handles.

Obviously if you use the handles you can drop the end weight too because some of the 2kg at the back is still transferred to the front. Seriously I think you would be really happy with the Camtree rod support and you can get one for less than you paid for your rail (I think they are listed for $70) and also come with a fitting that slides directly onto your rails.

Dave ? A monopod makes sense but my only issue is that you are stuck with a fixed height .. the rod system allows you to raise and lower the camera simply by moving it as if the rod wasn't there which is awesome but obviously a monopod firmly on the floor is super stable. I looked at my footage from last night, right at the end when I was physically exhausted and sheesh, it's STILL rock steady with no wobbles even at midnight!!!

Guys? The thing we REALLY need is a transverse stedicam arm clipped into a vest that would allow the camera to raise and lower via two cantilever arms ..the only issue I find with the support rod is it isn't as smooth when I walk with it as with a normal walking motion you tend to sway slightly from side to side. I shot last night handheld from 6pm to midnight (obviously with breaks) but amassed close to 2 hours of footage all handheld and all looks good.

My rod/waist belt is simply a nylon belt with a "pocket" in the front and the sprung rod goes up to a ball head and the other end is locked onto the rail system. Now, the new Camtree one just has a spring loaded pin at the top at the rail but there is a ball and socket down at your waist on the belt...I wonder if that might be better ..ie: allow the base of the rod near your waist to swivel and then just a minor amount of movement near the camera...with mine the top allows all the movement and the bottom is fixed....Hmmm maybe I should put a ball head at the other end too???

Seriously Tom, I would rather look at the sprung rod and belt ....if leaves you hands free which the handles don't and you are lifting zero camera weight....After shooting for 10 minutes when I "unhitch" the rod I'm quite amazed how heavy the camera suddenly is ....I reckon it's a steal for the price!!

Chris

Chris,

Mostly I shoot handheld and tripod on the same project. Switch from tripod back to handheld ...
So I'm gonna try some handles. They are cheap to try. The bars I already have from the camtree rod system.
Sometimes I need one hand on the camera but one (left) hand on the handle is better than nothing.

[Chris Harding]

Great Tom

Some things work for some people and not for others ... for me the support rod works the best and for you the handles work the best.

I have actually ordered the new model Camtree Support rod now as it has a better belt and a ball joint at the front of the belt instead of just a pocket. They are on special at the moment for only $65 for everything so I figured it was easier to pay that than run around trying to make a fitting for the existing belt..they also give you the fitting that slides right onto the QR rails.

Let us know how you find the front handles ? When I had my Panasonic AC-130's I made a shoulder rig and gave it two front handles ..with two hands it was really stable and perfect if you are shooting in full auto and it's a long hand hold too. Once you have them and have to hold an extra long time, try digging your elbows into your body too ...makes holding a bit easier!!

BTW: I cut the protrusions off on the sides of my QR rail ..they get in the way! especially on the handgrip side ...the big "U" shape one on the left of the camera also gets in the way and is to support DSLR's so no use for me..camera is more comfortable now too!!

Chris

[Chris Harding]

Right here is the perfect situation for Tom ..using both a rod and handles..you couldn't have any better support handheld than this surely?

Chris

[Don Bloom]

Looks like a knockoff of the DVTEC DVMultirig. I loved it with small form factor cameras.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Don

They are all knockoffs!! My Indian stedicam (it's a Flycam 5500) was an exactly copy of the G-series by Tiffen at a fraction of the price ..even the arm bones are identical in size! They stopped producing it (probably after a bit of pressure) and changed the design enough to start up again. If you take DVTec's ENG rig which sells for around $600 with a rail system .. you can buy a Camtree rail from India for $110 and the spring arm (the new one looks exactly like DVTec's one) for a mere $65.00

As far as I can remember the Multirig did fold up didn't it ...I don't think these one's do! Having shoulder mount cameras I luckily don't need any rigs and with my Panasonics I made my own rigs. However again you can but these rigs for about 50% the cost or even less than a DV Multirig ... labour costs over there are very low!

Chris

[Don Bloom]

Chris,
actually the Multirig did fold up. For small form factor cams it was a treat, at least as far as I'm concerned. One reason it was costly is the quality was top notch and at the time it came out there really wasn't anything else like it. Like I said before, I sold it when I got the HM700 since I knew I wouldn't be using it anymore but it was a great tool to have.
Since almost everything I'm shooting now is tripod based, I have to say, I like being tethered to one place. And my shoulder doesn't get worn out. ;-)

[Chris Harding]

Hey Don

I'm not so lucky!! Apart from speeches at the reception, I'm entirely hand held so the relief of having some front weight off the camera makes a huge difference. Remember the EA-50 has the pad at the end so you are holding all the weight. The HM700 has the pad right over the centre of balance! I bet you could almost dump it on your shoulder and hold it with one finger!! My footage at reception on the B-Cam is often close to 60 minutes worth and that's all handheld. The A-Cam just does the speeches!!

The DVTec rig was awesome ..you could fold it up and toss it in a bag if you were not using it plus it had so many configurations too

Chris

[Don Bloom]

Well, It's not really balanced that well. I have my receiver on the back end and have it close but not quite as good as I'd like. Keep in mind though, I'm not shooting weddings anymore. None. Zip, Nada, Nyet....I'm shooting a lot of talking heads. Sit downs, 1 person, 2 small LED lights, camera and that's about it. I love it! PLUS I don't have to edit. I load the footage off to the show producers laptop OR I hand over the SDHC card that they supply and I'm done. I'm in heaven! I'm selling off a bunch of my unused, unneeded gear and that money is going to our cruise fund! One coming up in May, another in Novermber and one for next March. there might be a couple inbetween. BTW, my son LOVED AUS (Sydney) except he felt it was kinda expensive but as he said, why not...I might not ever get there again! He really had a good time.
Anyway, I'm off to meet up with a friend for breakfast. See you later!

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Right here is the perfect situation for Tom ..using both a rod and handles..you couldn't have any better support handheld than this surely?

Chris

I believe this will be a perfect solution but is too much for me. I will try now only with handles.
You have lot of handles. In picture they use a "pistol" handle. (only 1 in the picture but I want 2)

Does it matter if choose a pistol handle or a normal handle?

[Tom Van den Berghe]

here is the picture

[Noa Put]

That doesn't look very practical to me, are you going to use it in this set up or are you going to add that suspension rod Chris has mentioned as well? I don't see what benefit this handle has as you can't reach your lens or any controls on the left side of the camera anymore. You could let the handle go to reach for the controls but you"ll likely get a unstable image while doing that.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Not going to add that suspension Chris mentioned.
If let go the handle for reaching the controls maybe I get unstable image. Maybe or maybe not.
Still have the counter weight in this case.

But filmed outside in full auto (just missed the nd filter that time) So no need for controls.

Filming with the prime It is mostly the focus ring I need to control.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

here you have "swing away" rod clamps from SHAPE.

Hands On: Shape Double Quick Handle Rosette System on Vimeo

that's looks perfect for me. On the tripod you click the clamps away. much cooler and easier.

But the shape is expensive. Are there cheaper out there with this system?

[Chris Harding]

The pistol grip really does look cheap and nasty!! If you are hand holding for a considerable time you need handles with a soft grip. With my Panny's I also found, as Noa says, you get a wobble when you let go one grip to make adjustments. I really cannot see the point of handles with a shoulder mount camera where you already have a shoulder pad.

It will just make everything big and bulky. Just look at it this way ... dump the matte box, the rails and all the weights and your camera is back to a respectable 2.7kg!! OK, it won't look as cool as it does now but it will be manageable and people won't think you are from the TV station. If the looks are important to you then keep everything and by all means try some handles. You can get a handle set from Camtree that will fit your current rails and they can swivel too and fold when you on tripod ..I think I saw those for $157.00??

All I'm using is the camtree QR rail so I can hook in the support arm when I need it and it really works well for me...not as cools as fancy matte boxes and handles but it's practical

Chris

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Chris,

For test I detached the mattebox, this weighs 1.3 kg! Even without the mattebox I need a counterbalance weight. It's front heavy with the stocklens without mattebox. (like Noa said me)

Looks important? It look's so nice with the camtree mattebox! Without it it's an ugly camcorder now (LOL)

I will give some handles a try. But will long handles gives a better balance. I mean: Will my position of the body better with longer handles? I really can't test this out.

wow, i just found handle grip from manfrotto. Not too expensive.

SYMPLA Adjustable Handles With Ball Swivel Joints MVA518W - Components | Manfrotto