X180 or X200, trying to decide

Rob Hargreaves · April 21st, 2015, 11:59 PM

I'll do a low light shot with both wide open at 18dB and post the results.
I'll also do wide open (widest iris) on both at 0db and have a look at the lens ramping through the zoom, although this is not actually shown on the X200 in the LCD, whereas the X180 does display this.
I shot with the same settings on both to see what low performance difference was and when I used a white card and waveform monitor the X200 is roughly 9dB more sensitive at the settings I used ie. same settings for both cameras!

Paul Anderegg · April 22nd, 2015, 12:41 AM

That's about 1/2 stop more sensitive than the published figures would indicate. You never know till you put he dang things side by side! I put the X180 f9@2000 f1.6 up against my work JVC HM790 f10@2000 f1.4, and the X180 is at least a STOP more sensitive. Again, not what the specs would indicate. The JVC's are the WORST cameras I have ever had the displeasure to be forced to use at night.

My X70 and X180 BOTH hit their smallest ramped aperture at around 65% of the optical zoom range.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · June 19th, 2015, 02:04 PM

Well, my new X200 just arrived. Trying to adjust to the yellow/green tinted viewfinder.

Very first observation after that...."Wow, this camera isn't any better in low light than my X180.". That was a major bummer.

Anyway, is there a way to assign a SLS value (1/30) to the shutter switch or any other physical switch/button like on the X180? I use that function for literally half the clips I shoot at night, I am toggling it more than the iris.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · June 19th, 2015, 05:43 PM

This just in, PXW-X200 EVF is disabled when network functionality is enabled. This is a wonderful revelation for me, as my contact lenses preclude me from seeing the LCD, and the camera live streams whenever it is used.

I am just not having any luck with Sony products........

Paul

Rob Hargreaves · June 20th, 2015, 06:16 AM

Hey Paul, since I hardly ever use the EVF, that was not something I came across, so "good" to know.
Wifi disables a number of features that can be useful so I'll add this to the list...

Paul Anderegg · June 20th, 2015, 09:16 PM

My new baby is ready for live news broadcasting now. The Genustech VCT14 adaptor fits just right, and the USB modem connector is a massive improvement over the X180. Oh yeah, that is my Panasonic AG-MC700P short shotgun microphone with OEM windscreen. Going to replace it with a Sanken CS3e soon. That will ruin the uncomplicated ergonomics, but vastly improve the audio.

Paul Anderegg · June 20th, 2015, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Hargreaves

Hey Paul, since I hardly ever use the EVF, that was not something I came across, so "good" to know.
Wifi disables a number of features that can be useful so I'll add this to the list...

Rob, the issue isn't so much the "WiFi", but if you have the Network/Proxy menu item ON. Even if I have the WiFi or Modem disconnected, or no SD card in the proxy slot, it still deactivates the EVF, 1080p60, and all those other things. Other stupid irritations include 1/60 shutter being the SLOWEST possible in 1080p60 mode, no color bars available in SLS mode etc. It's almost as if someone rushed the firmware out the door without being able to complete it, as so many of these things don't seem to be related in any mechanical or electrical way, it makes no sense.

Paul

Andy Wilkinson · June 21st, 2015, 12:47 AM

Not wanting to take this thread off track but from what I've seen and read the last 12-18 months, Paul's statement is becoming worryingly common with Sony's latest (and very frequent) new camera releases.

To quote Paul: "It's almost as if someone rushed the firmware out the door without being able to complete it."

What's even more worrying is that it can then take months and months for the "beta" firmware to get fixed with updates to sort out annoying issues. Often the issues users find are ones that should never had made it to the marketplace in professional cameras (and in some cases it's looking like they'll never be fixed).

Not knocking Sony (I've used their consumer and then professional cams for 15 years)…well I am knocking them a bit... but some other camera manufacturers take a different approach. Just an observation and certainly one that would worry me if I was to buy another Sony cam anytime soon.

Paul Anderegg · June 21st, 2015, 12:09 PM

The word "cannot" appears 172 times in the version 13 operations manual for the X200. That is an average of 10 times a page, not joking. :-)

Paul

Rob Hargreaves · June 22nd, 2015, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

Rob, the issue isn't so much the "WiFi", but if you have the Network/Proxy menu item ON. Even if I have the WiFi or Modem disconnected, or no SD card in the proxy slot, it still deactivates the EVF, 1080p60, and all those other things. Other stupid irritations include 1/60 shutter being the SLOWEST possible in 1080p60 mode, no color bars available in SLS mode etc. It's almost as if someone rushed the firmware out the door without being able to complete it, as so many of these things don't seem to be related in any mechanical or electrical way, it makes no sense.

Paul

Close the LCD completely and the EVF will come on even with Network enabled!
A really strange/quirky way of getting the EVF to work.
It's totally inferior to the X180 EVF both in picture quality and "activation" method!!!
Why not have the eye sensor like the X180???

Paul Anderegg · June 22nd, 2015, 05:43 PM

Yeah, the LCD/EVF situation on the X200 is atrocious! It's not just an evaluation of the camera, it is the evaluation of the camera vs it's own cheaper sibling, which has the same LCD even, but it doesn't have a hard green tint to it! The only use I can find for the EVF on the X200 is framing and color accuracy checking. It cannot be used to judge exposure or focus, not for me at least. The X180 has a very accurate (if a bit cool) LCD, but the EVF is what I used on it 90% of the time. The EVF on the X180 is sharper for me than the LCD, so I used it for critical focusing. This crap with the EVF deactivating with the LCD in network mode is killing me, because checking if my colors (street lights) or white balance is off requires slamming the LCD closed. At least the X200 LCD doesn't sag like my X180, which rests about 5-7 degrees down on the far left side, crooked. :-)

Paul

April 21st, 2015, 11:59 PM	#61
Rob Hargreaves Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 96	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide I'll do a low light shot with both wide open at 18dB and post the results. I'll also do wide open (widest iris) on both at 0db and have a look at the lens ramping through the zoom, although this is not actually shown on the X200 in the LCD, whereas the X180 does display this. I shot with the same settings on both to see what low performance difference was and when I used a white card and waveform monitor the X200 is roughly 9dB more sensitive at the settings I used ie. same settings for both cameras!

April 22nd, 2015, 12:41 AM	#62
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide That's about 1/2 stop more sensitive than the published figures would indicate. You never know till you put he dang things side by side! I put the X180 f9@2000 f1.6 up against my work JVC HM790 f10@2000 f1.4, and the X180 is at least a STOP more sensitive. Again, not what the specs would indicate. The JVC's are the WORST cameras I have ever had the displeasure to be forced to use at night. My X70 and X180 BOTH hit their smallest ramped aperture at around 65% of the optical zoom range. Paul

June 19th, 2015, 02:04 PM	#63
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide Well, my new X200 just arrived. Trying to adjust to the yellow/green tinted viewfinder. Very first observation after that...."Wow, this camera isn't any better in low light than my X180.". That was a major bummer. Anyway, is there a way to assign a SLS value (1/30) to the shutter switch or any other physical switch/button like on the X180? I use that function for literally half the clips I shoot at night, I am toggling it more than the iris. Paul

June 19th, 2015, 05:43 PM	#64
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide This just in, PXW-X200 EVF is disabled when network functionality is enabled. This is a wonderful revelation for me, as my contact lenses preclude me from seeing the LCD, and the camera live streams whenever it is used. I am just not having any luck with Sony products........ Paul

June 20th, 2015, 06:16 AM	#65
Rob Hargreaves Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 96	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide Hey Paul, since I hardly ever use the EVF, that was not something I came across, so "good" to know. Wifi disables a number of features that can be useful so I'll add this to the list...

June 20th, 2015, 09:16 PM	#66
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide My new baby is ready for live news broadcasting now. The Genustech VCT14 adaptor fits just right, and the USB modem connector is a massive improvement over the X180. Oh yeah, that is my Panasonic AG-MC700P short shotgun microphone with OEM windscreen. Going to replace it with a Sanken CS3e soon. That will ruin the uncomplicated ergonomics, but vastly improve the audio. Attached Thumbnails

June 21st, 2015, 12:47 AM	#68
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide Not wanting to take this thread off track but from what I've seen and read the last 12-18 months, Paul's statement is becoming worryingly common with Sony's latest (and very frequent) new camera releases. To quote Paul: "It's almost as if someone rushed the firmware out the door without being able to complete it." What's even more worrying is that it can then take months and months for the "beta" firmware to get fixed with updates to sort out annoying issues. Often the issues users find are ones that should never had made it to the marketplace in professional cameras (and in some cases it's looking like they'll never be fixed). Not knocking Sony (I've used their consumer and then professional cams for 15 years)…well I am knocking them a bit... but some other camera manufacturers take a different approach. Just an observation and certainly one that would worry me if I was to buy another Sony cam anytime soon. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

June 21st, 2015, 12:09 PM	#69
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide The word "cannot" appears 172 times in the version 13 operations manual for the X200. That is an average of 10 times a page, not joking. :-) Paul

June 22nd, 2015, 05:43 PM	#71
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 or X200, trying to decide Yeah, the LCD/EVF situation on the X200 is atrocious! It's not just an evaluation of the camera, it is the evaluation of the camera vs it's own cheaper sibling, which has the same LCD even, but it doesn't have a hard green tint to it! The only use I can find for the EVF on the X200 is framing and color accuracy checking. It cannot be used to judge exposure or focus, not for me at least. The X180 has a very accurate (if a bit cool) LCD, but the EVF is what I used on it 90% of the time. The EVF on the X180 is sharper for me than the LCD, so I used it for critical focusing. This crap with the EVF deactivating with the LCD in network mode is killing me, because checking if my colors (street lights) or white balance is off requires slamming the LCD closed. At least the X200 LCD doesn't sag like my X180, which rests about 5-7 degrees down on the far left side, crooked. :-) Paul