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Old July 2nd, 2020, 12:07 PM   #16
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

I strongly suspect that a crew can quickly spot if a film has serious investors. With your budget, it's highly unlikely you could afford to pay the normal rates, so it'll be very much a case of striking deal with them knowing that it's a very low budget film.

If you're worried about people running off, tell them you'll pay them at the end of every day, I've worked on productions where this happens (usually commercials). You can tell when a feature film is in trouble when the crew insist on getting paid at the end of each week.

However, given your budget, you will still run the risk of people leaving if a bigger production comes along, which is the reason why productions like this are often shot in the dead season for the industry. That's usually January or February in many countries.

How much professionals get paid in advance depends on they area of work, Weddings etc have deposits, while freelance TV and Film technicians etc usually get paid afterwards. A production company usually gets staged payments to cover costs, by nature of their work, the wedding people are acting as a production company.

Usually people work for production companies, because it's requirement for the funders.

In the end, I suspect you may still run into difficulties because you don't seem to come over as professional and confident in what you're doing. Which may be the reason that the person did a runner with your money, it's not something that they should have done, but the industry has people who will do whatever they can get away with.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; July 2nd, 2020 at 02:05 PM.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 04:15 PM   #17
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Brian is on point with everything he is saying.

All of these conversation seem to conclude in one universal point. Making a sucessful independent feature film is exceedingly difficult. You're basically running a production company that has high up front costs with low chance of a payoff if all goes well far into the future.

Your skill set doesn't match what's needed to hire and manage a competent crew, let alone all the creative decision making needed. You're stuck on a singular premise, "you are going to create a feature film no matter what", then asks questions based on that. You're on an endless search for answers on how to accomplish something that is beyond your abilities.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 04:35 PM   #18
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Oh okay, and yes I didn't think it worth it, especially when the other person lived in another city, which would have made small claims court more difficult. But if there are no reputable professionals that show interest, and I am forced to work with unknowns, like usual, do I just offer a certain percentage up front then?
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 04:38 PM   #19
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

You can if you want, but anyone who knows anything knows that it's extremely unlikely they're going to get paid any money on percentages.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 04:57 PM   #20
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Oh why is that?
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 07:47 PM   #21
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

ryans talking about percentages of the crew/casts pay, not points on the films profits.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 12:39 AM   #22
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

You can pay cast and crew less than their normal rates by doing a deal, although you should be aware of any Canadian minium wage rate laws. It's then a matter of persuading people of the quality that you want that this project is worth doing. It's a lot easier with a short than a feature film because of the time commitment and it helps if you've got contacts who work as professionals. These people usually want to work up a grade to get experience or a credit in a type of production they don't normally work on.

The downside to that is that they may wish to have more kit than you're used to because it's part of it being worthwhile for them doing the job (e.g. the DP may want it for their showreel). For them it's working at the next level up, so what they expect to use may be more than what you're used to. Especially, if you want to work fast and have good visuals.

However, given the size of your budget for a feature film and the ambition, it does seem to be more in the area of the freebie than one where people get paid. I know films with much bigger budgets which were percentages of the profits, rather than payment for the cast and crew.

There's also the scenario where the cast and crew get paid part of their fees and also get a percentage of the profits. Note that this refers to the net profits, which is why people tend not to see any of this.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; July 3rd, 2020 at 01:19 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 01:45 AM   #23
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Oh okay. I would definitely want the everyone to get a percentage of the profits if there is any after, down the line, for sure.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 01:50 AM   #24
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Have you thought any of this out? Because I get the impression that you haven't.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 02:28 AM   #25
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Yep I have. Just trying to get the budget down lower but at the same time, still try to come off as professional as possible.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 03:23 AM   #26
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

You sound more like a hobbyist than a professional filmmaker, especially a demanding would be director.

Usually the latter are trying to get more funding because that often directly affects the quality of the final production, especially if it involves action like car chases. shoot outs combined with strong visuals. Once they've managed some how to get enough for a viable production, which often isn't really enough, but way more than what you've currently got, they'll work pushing to the limit, trying to inspire their cast and crew. With the crew getting annoyed by the line producer or production manager trying to cut costs, e.g, their pay.

I'm concerned that you still seem to be back asking basic questions on another forum about your script issues (from the sound of your questions the feature script isn't near shooting), page counts, your short film and other points that were discussed endlessly here and yet you don't seem to have learnt anything along the way. All this doesn't bode well for a would be director.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; July 3rd, 2020 at 07:50 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 05:28 AM   #27
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Good lord percentages of net profits. That’s like asking them to buy you lottery tickets and you’ll write them a contract agreeing to pay them a percentage of the winnings.

Everything you describe about this production sounds amateur. This falls into the long lists of questions how do I get professional results without spending the money. But now instead of equipment we’re talking about the crew and cast. Being professional is a long process of working years on a pro sets, it’s not something you wake up and decide. So now it’s how do I hire a professional crew without paying them like pros.

Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; July 3rd, 2020 at 06:04 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 08:00 AM   #28
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

I just realized what if any of them Google him and find these threads?
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 12:51 PM   #29
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass View Post
I just realized what if any of them Google him and find these threads?
That's why he is Ryan Ray, Elder, Jim, etc

There's no shame in not being able to pay for an indie movie out of ones own pocket. I don't think any of us would want to but we'd also see the futility of proceeding without outside funding.
All of his question are predicated on I saw a major motion picture I want to emulate how can I do it without having access to everything that they had to produce it.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 10:18 PM   #30
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Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case

Oh okay, but I should probably still produce it out of my own pocket, if I could not get external funding, I figure.
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