Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I can see his friends and family giving him support and encouragement. They probably hoped he would have figured out for himself long ago this wasn't right for him. Unfortunately sounds like Ryan could go in circles for eternity. He seems happy to take any advice or deceive himself as long as it supports his one goal, to make this movie. I could see people who care about him probably tried to steer him into screenwriting or direction not because he is good at it but because there is no financial risk. One thing is clear he ignores all the online advice and seems to only listen to this group of his. I'm guessing they are his only ticket to making his movies so he is in no position to question them.

Someone pointed out he could hire all these positions. While this would result in a better movie, what would the be left for Ryan to do and where is he getting all this money to bank role this? I imagine Ryan is the local Don Quixote, and it's probably easier to allow him to continue on his adventures then try to talk sense to him.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

When you say what would be left for me to do if I hire all the positioons, isn't that what most people do when they are producing and directing a movie, hire all the positions? As for it not being right for me, everyone, not just friends and family, but other filmmakers I worked with, they say to go for it and that I would do a lot better if I had a better cast, DP and PD, to fill those roles. So I thought I would try that.

But as far as the people who tell me don't do it goes, every filmmaker says that this is normal, that some people are going to say don't do it, but that's normal and every filmmaker is told that. Do they have a point? I've also tried working other jobs, but I was told by people I know, that since this is the profession I want I might as well try, otherwise I will never know, and I will always be questioning it, if I don't try.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You don't have the money and no one creditable is going to want to work on that screen play you wrote.
It would be normal to tell anyone to follow their dreams. Just because you want to doesn't mean you have the ability. You've had sufficient time to prove you're good at this and all the evidence I've seen and heard proves the contrary. You haven't even gotten into a film festival let alone win an award.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Well I feel like I need other people to help. A better DP than I have worked with before and a a better cast. Are you saying they cost too much money? How do other directors afford them then when they are making their firsts, in order to get into festivals?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

First time directors can have larger budgets than you do. The ones who get into festivals often have a lot more directing experience than you, they may be actors themselves, so get a good deal from other actors,

They may have worked in the industry, so are known and have good contacts, with a real producer working on their production.

With your budget, you don't have the funds to pay people on a feature film as complex as the one you're describing.

Also, your film doesn't sound like a festival film.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, but I feel that I'm at a paradox cause I got to make a movie first, then get into festivals, then hopefully get recognition that way for the next, bigger project. But in order to make something festival worthy, I need top notch actors, and a top notch DP for that project. Otherwise I won't get into festivals.

So how can I get top notch experienced people to work with beforehand, in order to make a festival worthy product in the first place?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Everything on the surface seems simple. Of course, if you hire professionals and you'll get professional results, but that costs money and isn't any guarantee of financial success. Let's say you spend 10k, produce a great film, enter into a film festival, win, you still haven't made any money you're actually in the hole for 10k, now you have to use that success to springboard yourself into a paying project that will get you out of debt and start making money.

Do you even perceive how much risk and how low the success rate there is in indie filmaking even if you're talented. Now replay that scenario without talent, weak cast, script, crew etc.

Making a movie is a business. Just like any start up small business the odds are it will fail.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Yeah I see what you mean and I think about that a lot. Would be the best method then to get a movie made with more experienced people then? Or what do you do, when faced with that paradox? I'm trying to get to making a movie with good professionals, without having to make more than one movie and thereby spending more money. How does one do that?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

It's always a paradox.

On your budget you need to know really good actors who want to get the experience of bigger roles, who are willing to invest their time in a project they believe in.

However, it may prove difficult if your short films haven't yet been shown at film festivals.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

We aren't trying to crush your dreams or make you feel bad about yourself, that's the realities of indie filmaking. We can't be telling you anything you didn't already know. Truth is it's a hard business with no easy answers. You either have what it takes or you don't. The more honest you are with yourself the better off you'll be in the future.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay thanks, I know you aren't. Thanks.

Well in order to get into a festival first, I need to make something with good actors, first. So what can I do to attract good actors without any festival winners, since I need them first, in order to have a chance of winning? I know some actors I worked with before, but I was told not to work with them. A couple of them may be good, but since I have only worked with them in comedy, not sure how they would do in serious roles. But they may be good. But of course, I need more than just two, so is there a place to look for actors that are interested, where I wouldn't need a festival winner?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I just laid out one possible path (win film festival route). One could argue that method is getting supplanted by social media. Regardless of the method your success will always be contingent on how good you're at what you do. Read that link with the 5 characteristics needed to be a film maker. You're still caught up with the details like how do I get good actors, dp, etc. When you're talented and have good projects good people will gravitate to you.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Okay thanks, I read those 5 characteristics. Good to know! Thanks.

I also watched the video on the making of The Dallas Buyers Club. So in the video they said that the whole movie was shot with the lights on the locations, and no artificial lights were used. Is that do-able though? I keep being told that I need a better DP but is shooting with the lights of the location and no other lights, even do-able? I feel like that movie got away with it, because Matthew McConaughey is in it, and people are willing to watch a movie he is in, no matter how the cinematography looks. But can just any filmmaker shoot with the lights in the location, and nothing more and still have it look professional to others?

When it comes to how I am with cast and crew, I was told before that I am too flexible with some of their suggestions and use their decisions too much. Should it be more of a collaborative process, or do I need to put my foot down more maybe?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

A good DP can so amazing things with available light, however, you can't be totally locked into a storyboard. You need to follow what's available in lighting terms at the location on the day of filming.

If you find the right cast people will watch the film quite happily, at some point Matthew McConaughey was an unknown. The skill is spotting an actor before they become big.

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Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Okay thanks. I can keep looking. There was one film I helped work on before, where the cinematography I thought was really good. Some of the actors were good, others, so so, I thought. But maybe the DP would be interested... even though I would have to arrange for accommodations for him to travel here. If not I can keep looking.

I know about not being locked into a storyboard, it's just in the past, if I abandon the storyboard on the fly, I have regretted it, cause then there were problems with the shot after. But I can try to get better at that.

In the past I also tried to pump out a page of script per half hour of shooting. But is that not enough time maybe, even if I am pressed for time? I was told by the cast and crew before that they were impressed by that and they like how I work fast, and get in and out of locations on faster amount of time, than on other productions. But is half an hour per page, too short maybe?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

As far as lighting you can't jump to conclusions just from watching one video. In this example you would need to watch Dallas Buyers Club and see if you like that look and whether it fits with your project. I for one would want lights. If you could plan out a location that didn't need them it would obviously save you money. This goes back to what we were saying about fast lenses. Also remember they are shooting with ARRI. So you can't just copy paste ideas without testing them out with your equipment, location, and subject.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay. Well for mine, I wanted more of a film noir lighting look ideally, if I can find a DP that is more familiar with that style, but I am willing to be flexible as long as it looks good in the end.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Time lag. As in Brian posted at 11.30 last night and I’ve just woken up and it’s 7.00 am here. We’re talking across time zones.

Ryan -it’s your money. If you can afford to lose it and not feel bad. Then carry on and spend it.

What are you like communicating face to face? We struggle via text but how would you fare on YouTube explaining your project to potential investors. Maybe you come across much better with your friends? Perhaps that’s why we struggle?

I got confused about your script to shooting ratio? I’ve never thought about pages vs time because one wordy scene on the page could be a doddle to shoot vs one descriptive page that takes forever?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Regarding half an hour per page. this is pretty much a soap opera shooting rate, it's not a feature film shooting rate (I don't now how much time you're allowing for lighting etc). Given how inexperienced your actors are, you probably won't get consistently good performances and you're limited to talking heads.

Rodger Corman used to shoot features very quickly, one film ( The Little Shop of Horrors) was reputedly shot in two days and one night, using three cameras reusing sets in a studio. However, these days it's more TV than cinema.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I think I am pretty good communicating face to face, and definitely don't think I am difficult in any way before.

It's just shoot time is real tight with the schedules of location availability, so I have been trying to knock out a page per half hour. This isn't the same for every page of course, and plus the set up time, but if I take the time of a days' shoot and divide how many pages were covered, so far it's been a page per 30 minutes that it divides out too.

Perhaps if I have more rehearsal time with the actors before hand an set more rehearsal dates, then we can go and and do it just as fast but better, when the real shoot begins?

However, when I say 30 minutes per half hour, that's only a scene with two actors, that I have been timing off of. For this next project, a lot of scenes have more than two actors, so it would probably take longer I am guessing, depending on how many I decide to give close up shots to individually, or if I have time for single close ups for each.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I don't know how good you are at communicating face to face, although you did indicate this being one of the reasons for your storyboards.

Going too quickly may explain why you've got continuity errors in the filing cabinet scene. you didn't notice the cane being up instead of down and the lighting being different.

More rehearsal is always worth having.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I don’t believe a lot of what he says but not our time or money so carry on.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Yes, he keeps going in circles.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

The mark of a good director is turning scripts into completed scenes - which involves delegation of some rehearsing to the actors themselves, unsupervised, or the actors with somebody to read in missing people, or for the director to lead through step by step. The best directors size up the actors very quickly and easily determine the best and most productive sequence. One I worked with always did the thing backwards. He'd look at a busy scene where at some point lots of people would be involved and he'd do that section of the scene first, and once done, he'd let those actors go, so concentrating time gradually on fewer people. I find this odd, because you'd often be going back in time, but the actors benefited.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, that's an interesting method.

Well the cane continuity was poor editing on my part, I don't think it had anything to do with shooting, I just should have cut to show him lower it. However, doing so means that the reaction would have taken longer, but maybe continuity is more important than reaction time in editing?

With the storyboards, are you saying that I don't need them, if I communicate better? Cause for my first projects, I didn't use storyboards much, but then I was told I should use them to better communicate my shots better, so I used them there on.

For example, one time I wanted a close up shot, but I had some trouble having the DP understand the degree of the angle I wanted. So the storyboard helped more with the degree of the angle from then on. But even on other occasions, the DP looked at the storyboard and set the shot up faster, than me explaining it to them in words after looking. So aren't storyboards good therefore?

As for the lighting being different, I let the DP change the lights, but should I not let them next time, and say once the lights are planted, do not move them in between shots?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

If you were a good experienced DP, would you let this Ryan guy dictate what you should or should not use? If the DP KNOWS the lights need resetting, you would be stupid to interfere, and that is the problem. You simply don't trust people to do their job. You cannot resist tinkering?

I don't think Brian meant don't use storyboards if you communicate better, he just suggested that you use storyboards rather than explain what you're doing. This suggests your comms skills are a bit iffy? we get confused quite often, have you noticed? Surely by now you'd be able to predict how well we understand - and in reverse, you constantly so "so you mean ......" when we don't! You seem to miss the point all the time.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

If you didn't have the option of using another take it was poor continuity,a script/continuity person would have been across that instantly. It would've saved you that problem in the cutting.

The DP should be aware of their lighting continuity, it's not usual to adjust lights for a CU, but it needs to fit in with the surrounding shots. In this case the shot needed more fill.

You need to be extremely good at drawing storyboards in order to work out accurately the camera angle on a character by using them. No one is stopping you using storyboards, it forces you to at least think about what you're doing. .

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I think his dp is a guy holding a clamp light that’s sold at a home improvement store.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

But when I trusted the DP do what he wanted with the lighting, the lighting ended up being mis-matched though. So by not interfering, the lighting turned out poor.

I have other takes to use, but my instincts told to choose the best take based on acting. Even though the acting was bad, it was the least bad in that take. So shouldn't I choose based on performance, first and foremost? Plus I didn't think the cane was that big of a continuity error, cause you can clearly see him move the cane down before it cuts to the next shot. So since you can see him move the cane down in the first shot, how is it being down in the second shot, a problem then?

But when it comes to storyboards, all I know is, is that the projects I did use them, went a lot faster, compared to ones, where we did not. Plus the storyboard not only seemed to help the DP, but it was also good for my own reference, then I do not have what all the shots look like all in my memory, and I have visual reminders as to what they look like, compared to relying on memory all the time.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Then the DP was no good. If he had been competent, he'd have sorted it. That's why you pay them large day rates or end to end contract fees. Or not, depending on your budget.

This bit is just madness!
That is NOT ever going to work, is it?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, are you saying I should choose takes based on continuity first and performance second then?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I agree the dp didn’t know what he was doing. As the director it was your responsibility to speak up while you were shooting. But I don’t think you even noticed until we pointed it out.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Well as far as speaking out goes, how do I, who is not a DP, suppose to know when they are moving the lights in a good way, or a very bad way? Say next time, I speak up but the DP is moving them in a good way, and doing his job right.

Since I am not a DP, how would I know?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You're getting two separate things mixed up in ways that don't work?

When the director says cut - s/he will know if that take was a good one. At that point, the HoDs signify their perspectives - the DP is Happy, audio is happy, but continuity says "hang on, can we check......."
Then the director decides if it needs reshooting and makes sure the people who messed up, get it right. If at the end of this take continuity are happy but sound aren't, then while it's annoying - the sound people were 100% right to printout the error. Sometimes the director decides (maybe with consultation) if it can be fixed in post? Sound might say - we can replace the aircraft noise with the clear sound from the earlier take, and the Director accepts their professional recommendation. This is how team work saves the day. The Director is like the ship Captain - the focal point on which everything sits. You need to be this person.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You need both because you need to cut the film together, especially if the object in question is in foreground of the shot, The performance isn't there if part of the action is different, it's your job as the director to sustain the performances of both actors.Often you can get away with stuff in the background, but not in the foreground.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay. Well sometimes when I replay the footage back, I don't notice a lot of things until later on a bigger screen. Perhaps I should arrange to play it back through a large laptop screen when shooting, so I can see more of the little things?

The aircraft thing happened before, but when an aircraft passed by, I would just call cut and wait for it to pass, and then restart the take, if that was best, rather than record a take with an aircraft on it. Replacing a take with sound from another take, never works in the past, cause the actors will say the lines a little differently, and usually you can tell the sync is a bit off.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Not if somebody competent does it. Hell - I've used snippets of audio from lots of takes to fix errors. Clearly if it goes over somebodies line - that's a cut - but in the background, which is what I meant, it's not a problem - but the sound people need the guts to call a stop.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

What's the point of only looking at it when your at home editing when you can't fix it?

This is obvious stuff, look at her face. Not only is it too dark it's light from opposite direction and doesn't even remotely look like the first shot.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

In these two shots (without going back through the movie) were they cut together? The lighting is different but they've completely changed positions too - the lighting is just odd. her left cheek in shadow, but her hair and the guys face are bright? Why on earth was it lit like this?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Cross lighting...her hair light is his key from another angle and it wasn't changed for the reverse