Wedding nightmare
 

We have all had this happen to us, and no doubt will be repeated this year.


Enjoy! and cringe

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Yes, this happens to us too. But a true professional covers the angles with at least another camera(s). Through creative editing, a professional makes the final product look good, no matter what kind of crap is thrown at us. As a professional, there is no excuse for bad audio, bad lighting, or bad white balance. We always cover ourselves and constantly move forward.

From this experience, you can either
1. Sit back, do nothing
2. Complain when it happens again the next time (Trust me, it will)
3. Be ready the next time, have a plan in place when (not if) it happens

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

That was pretty awesome.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I agree with everything but your first statement about a "true professional" having "at least another camera(s)." Professionalism has nothing to do with how many cameras you use. A "true professional" will work with the photographer(s), and address the issue promptly. If the photographer won't cooperate, a "true professional" gets more creative -- which is not difficult with one camera.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

This never stops being funny and continues to be relevant. Much existing discussion on this and many other existing threads:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...ographers.html

Well, sometimes it does. A professional plans for every eventuality and leaves himself options, and sometimes this requires backup hardware.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

You should be smart enough to work this out before hand with the client and photographer their hiring. I've done both video and photography. When your taking pictures you can't be shy about getting in someone's way you need to get the shots and if you don't the client will be very mad. Often the priority goes to the photographer and if the client understands the result of that then there shouldn't be a problem. Like someone said you should have another angle to go to. My view of wedding videography is its a documentation of the days event and like it or not the photographer is part of it. I often video the formals photo session.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

You're absolutely right -- I was referring to simultaneous cameras. I'm still a "true professional" even if I'm using only one camera for the shoot.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

wow. they were everywhere. your music definitely lightens the mood.
Do you think if they see this they would be more considerate next time?

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Well at least I found out who buys those silly toilet-seat-like light modifiers that Gary Fong sells.
Thanks for sharing

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

This is FUNNY! Thanks for sharing!

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

We're talking weddings here, an event that cannot be recreated. If you're in the business long enough, you'll discover that something will go wrong with your shoot when you least expect it. It's not a matter of "if," it's "when." Over the years, I've had 2 cameras break down right before the ceremony started, but since I was prepared for it, everything went along as if nothing happened. If you're shooting with one camera without backup, it's just a matter of time....trust me.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

When I was still accepting Asian weddings, I did notice that they always seem to have at least two, often young, over-enthusiastic photographers who seem to feel that the "use a wide angle lens and get in really close" is the golden rule for wedding photography.

I did a video shoot of a Vietnamese wedding last year and the photogs were virtually like ants around the couple...in fact at one stage with the lens hood virtually touching the brides ring, he was reprimanded by the officiant. These guys seemed to work on the concept of more is better!! They must have about 3000 exposures each just during a ceremony.

I always explain nicely to my photogs where the fixed camera is and they seldom get in the shot although they might cross my field of view now and again. Most Western photogs here will respect the fact that the ceremony is a special event and shoot a little further back so everyone and work and the guests too, can see!!! I actually work quite often with a Chinese photog here who is a absolute joy to work with and stays out of sight but still gets great pics!!! He amused me when he said that he too, refuses to do any Asian weddings because of the chaos involved and the extra photogs they ask for!!

I guess the culture expects the photogs to take a huge amount of exposures and employ at least two cameramen because that's what the bride wants and expects....I certainly didn't see any signs of annoyance from the couple despite the photogs being "in their face" constantly!! In fact if you watch the video carefully you can see a few times where the one photog looked back at the videographer and then almost defiantly continued shooting.

You certainly have to give them 10/10 for their never-ending effort and enthusiasm!!!

Chris

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Yes. So was I.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I'm really not looking for an argument here, guys. I've shot scores of weddings, and have had much success with one camera -- even though I often shoot with two. I actually enjoy the challenge of 1-camera shoots, because every shot counts. So, if in your minds, that disqualifies me as a professional, so be it.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Hi Corey

My weddings are 2 camera shoots BUT only for the ceremony so I can shoot some cutaways and angles and during the speeches to get some guest reactions so I don't end up with talking heads.

1, 2 or 5 is regardless if you can produce a great memory for the bride!!! I find that apart from the above, anything more than a single cam is really pointless...do the first dance with two cameras and two operators and you are then trying to keep the other camera out of shot!!

In fact I saw a "so called" professional video from a huge company here where most of the main footage had the bride and groom nicely framed with the bridal party and the 2nd cameraman was included in all the footage too!!! ... funny they also charge an absolute fortune for their packages too!!!

Whatever tools you need to do a great job makes you a professional...quality and creativity beats quantity any day!!

Chris

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I generally talk to the photographer prior to the ceremony, I don't get in his/her way whilst they are shooing groups and I don't expect them to ruin the required shots, bride making her entrance, vows, exchange of rings etc.. One of the other annoying things is the beep, beep from their digital cameras autofocus, especially if they are shooting close to my mikes.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

That's a real entertaining video! I cringe at photographers who use wide angle lens during ceremony >__<

I've seen a wedding in Indonesia where the photographers (3-4 of them) are just surrounding the table. The videographers had no choice but to get as close too.. In the end, as a guest, I was entertained by the excellent showcase of vendors backside..

I talk with photographer to plan ahead.. the good ones are easy to work with, the bad ones are just pain on the neck. I dont mind them getting into my view during prep but I'm less forgiving in ceremony since our cameras are static 90% of the time.

I've once actually worked with a solo photographer who is an absolute pleasure to work with. I can hardly see him in any of my footage.. plus when I was doing the classic rotating kiss shot with the B&G, he even took the effort to run behind me just so that he's not in the shot!!

Since then, I've been referring him to many clients I've met

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

my 2 cents

We always talk to the photographers beforehand and that's before the morning preparations, before the ceremony, before the recessional, before the reception, before the speeches, before the first dance, before the cake cutting.

Communication is key and while 90% of the time the photographers are actually really good about being aware, the odd time they're not, is when the 2nd and even sometimes 3rd angle becomes a necessity.

That being said, really funny video and certainly well put together!

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Almost all the weddings I've photographed they were very strict about the ceremony. Either you're not allowed on the altar area, if you are then you need to stay in one location, and definitely no flash. That's why most professional photographers will go long with 80-200mm.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

[QUOTE=Johannes Soetandi;
In the end, as a guest, I was entertained by the excellent showcase of vendors backside..

This is a big concern of mine, blocking the guests view. I really try not to go up the aisle during the ceremony but sometimes I have to because the photog is standing 2 feet away from the B&G. Also during the First Dance, Toasts and Cake Cutting, I really hate blocking the guests views. I'd like to stand back, but someone (guest/photog) will no doubt stand in front of my camera.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

It may be worthwhile educating the bride & groom on how to manage your vendors. If the client had insisted from the start for the vendors to avoid as much as possible blocking guest view or standing too close to the couple, then the photog and videog may approach the work culture differently. I do this for my own wedding coming up end of the year, I'll make sure they are not crowding the altar!

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I used to believe this but I've run across a photog who shoots so close he stands about as far away from the couple as the celebrant - there is NOTHING I can do so I simply refuse to work with him anymore. I run 3 cameras and 2 operators and he's still in the way - He's well regarded as a professional of long standing and says he works well with other video companies (maybe it's just me) - yes we did have a discussion about it!

and yes.. he is actually checking his shots while he's standing right next to the groom

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

The other solution is to just do the shots that you normally do and don't worry if you get in the way of the stills photographer, just make sure you get your shots. I did exactly that on a previous wedding, I got some great footage. Not that I am suggesting you ruin the stills photographers pictures, just make sure that you get the clean shots you are being paid for.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

It's funny how wedding photography has evolved. I started out as a stills photographer and would cover a full wedding with 10 rolls of 120 film (120 exposures max) Now I see photographers with digital cameras shooting hundreds if not one or two thousand pictures at a wedding. They all seem to need re-assurance that the last picture taken was OK. Maybe this is both the blessing and curse for digital capture.

Having said that, I wouldn't want to go back to shooting film. (or tape for video cameras)

Ok, I got issues with this..
 

Yeah it was bad.. no doubt. BUT I should say that at least part, if not MOST of this abuse was YOUR fault. Now don't get crazy with me but let me say that yes we have dealt with this on a number of occasions and know what we are talking about.

1st talk to the photographer before the wedding!! Introduce yourself and show them you're work (if there willing). For us the photographer "gets it" right away and are on board with what we produce. They become a team player before we ever begin. The day goes great and we are happy to work with them again.

2nd, if they are still not cooperative then kick some but!!! I will tell the photographers that we need to get our shot that that they are no more important than we are, I will be very vocal if need be, in the end we will work at the same level with them as they do with us - an issue of respect. If they continually step over our feet, then game on. Part of this however is also being flexible with your shots, I noticed you guys are tripod shooters primarily, that is your fault not the photographers! Some photographers can't stand working with us because we shoot like they do, we are very active with capturing our artwork, and for them its intrusive.

3rd. Control the day. Shoot photos too. Roughly 60% of our events are fusion packages, meaning our team handles both mediums and we work as a team FOR each other. We can all shoot either medium on the fly, so if I need more help with photos or cinema I can pull accordingly. If a photographer on our team is getting in our way (usually Rebecka haha) we can just tell them to get moving :) However because we each know what we need to accomplish, the end result is much better and the day goes smoother.

Hope that helps.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Damn. I thought I was seeing a guy I had to work with last year in the UK. They look so similar, and similar issues. Stood so close while looking at his own pictures I could rarely get a clear shot.

I won't ever work with him again if I can avoid it.

The thing I can't quite get a grip on is how BAD the shots are from some of the tog I've worked with, yet they get paid MORE and work FEWER hours on the day and FEWER hours processing.

I'm a stills photographer too, but not doing weddings at the moment. I'm seriously considering offering it, and a photo and video package too. Not quite sure what's holding me back.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I don't think "wide angle style" is limited to any culture, age-group or experience bracket of photographers. I think it is (unfortunately) something that is just in voque at the moment.

I had a wedding recently where the bride was English. She paid an apparently very famous English wedding photographer as well as an assistant to fly to Australia for her wedding. It was upwards of $20,000 from what I could gather. I honestly don't think this guy used anything wider that a 28mm lens (on a full frame camera!) for the entire day. It's not only intrusive, as well as blocking the guests views, it is also goes against all the standards and techniques of good portraiture.

I can only imagine showing my children* my wedding photos* in 20 years and having them ask "Daddy, have you had plastic surgery? Because your nose was massive back then!"


* As yet non-existant.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Hey John

It might be the fact that young, "would be" photographers can't justify decent tele glass when they are starting out so they stay with 28mm .... Most Western weddings I do have a photographer than has the decency to shoot from behind me so the guests don't have to watch a photog darting back and forth. It was simply that every ethnic wedding I did in the 2009/10 season seemed to have 2 or 3 young photogs (maybe TAFE students) intent on shooting a minimum of 1000 frames an hour and no further tahn 12" from any subject!!! In vogue or not it's still not very professional to be "in the couple's face" consistently ...if it was my wedding I would have brought along a fly swatter !!!

Then again I did work with a guy with decent gear who decided that the correct way to shoot a ceremony was to do 4 frames from the right then run in front of the video camera and shoot 4 frames from the left..and then back again...the actual vows and rings (civil ceremony) took just on 8 minutes and he walked in front of my camera 14 times before I politely asked if he could just maybe walk around it???
Luckily he did!!!

Chris

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Maybe your right a young photographer can't afford a tele lens, perhaps he shouldn't take on a wedding without the proper equipment.

I can't understand why digital photographers have to take so many pictures, a sign of a lack of confidence maybe? There again, maybe it's just safety in numbers.

This all reminds of a wedding I covered a few years ago. I set a remote video camera up on the balcony for an overall shot. The stills photographer also decided she wanted to do some shots from the balcony and stood in front of my video camera. I ended up with footage of her backside for the bridal party exit.

Now I only do one or two weddings a year, they are too much hassle.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

The up close & personal technique is part of the modern documentary style of wedding photography. The photographer in this Canon Masterclass says his main lenses are the 50mm F1.2L & 24mm F1.4L & that he is never more than 15-20 ft away from his subjects which should ensure that he features a lot in any video of the event Canon Professional Network - Wedding Masterclass

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Maybe that's why these photographers get paid really well. Because they dont care about other vendors as long as they get what they need. And because they get paid real well, some thought they have the right to be the more important vendor on the day. I agree that as videog we can't just let them ruin our footages.. we have to work around it.. cooperatively if possible, otherwise competitively

Paul, the photographer standing right behind the B&G when they kissed was definitely unacceptable. Every photos of them kissing (including any if taken by guests) will have him as a background, except for his own shot. I reckon it would be the most selfish position any vendor could've stand in.

Nigel, thanks for posting that link. Really inspiring!

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Nigel???

I'm talking 15 to 20 inches!!! During the ring ceremony the lens hood actually touched the bride's finger and then the minister had had just about enough and pushed them away!!!

If these two idiots had been 15' to 20' I would have been quite happy ..I could have worked around them!!

Vincent, I was a wedding photographer for 10 years using film and my Mamiya RB-67's ..a 220 roll of film allowed you 16 exposures and if you carried 10 rolls it was a lot!!! These young guys don't know squat about composition ..If you shoot enough there is a 99% chance that one of out the 10 exposures you did of the ring will be good!!! In film days we shot the ring exchange once and it WAS good ...remember you had no way of even seeing the result until you went back to your lab and processed the 21/4" wide film strip!!!

My mate here shoots an average of 3000 exposures for the ceremony and photoshoot ...out of that he is pretty much certain to get 100 good shots!!!

Chris

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I'm not wanting to sound like a die hard old codger Chris, but I agree with you. I guess that everything changes including the ethics of shooting a wedding. In my day the ceremony was regarded as a religious event and if you were lucky then the vicar would allow you to take a picture at the moment of ring exchange. Today I see guys (and girls) blasting away with flashes at every opportunity. The wedding has just become another money spinner, as you say, shoot enough and you can't fail.

The one thing that I find sad, is that the day is dominated by the photographer and everyone goes along with it.

Maybe I am just getting too old for this business.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Hmmmm.....looked to me like Regina was marrying one of her father's friends!

Those two white elongated flash units on top of those still cameras popping up all the tme was almost like two cartoon characterss peering in on the proceedings.

It was easy to laugh from afar but I am sure if you were the videographer that day you would feel more like crying.

So far it has not come up but after what I have read on this forum in this thread and others I think I will probably avoid foreign weddings if possible.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

What really amuses me is that if the photog needs a shot from your video position they sit right down on the floor so they are well clear of your shot but forget that they have a flash and the usual piece of white card sticking up well over their head....what I usually get is a great shot of the top of the flash unit and the white card!!!

I wonder if photogs would drive under a highway bridge with an abnormally high load in the back of a pickup truck and then wonder what that loud crashing noise was?????

Chris

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Chris, I hate when the photog stands next to me and his flash is pointed in my eyes. It's like they have no idea where their flash is going.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Much like the guy on Nigel's link, I've also came across well known photographers who do not use flash until it becomes necessary. And they actually turned down the beeping noise from the autofocus. I've really come to appreciate their professionalism as they know how to make use of natural light and understand the respect they need to give to not just other vendors, but also the guests of the ceremony.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Well crap, I was going to post one of my screenshots, but they pale in comparrison to that dude. Man, he doesn't give a rats arse about you at all, more over, he doesn't care about his/your clients. He just cares about himself.

By the way, I have a disclaimer in my contract that I am not responsible for the photog getting in my shot. I've only worked with two evil ones in 8 years. That's why we are going to start offering both, I'm tired of the drama. That and we can do better than a 1/3 of the ones we run into.

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

I've been fortunate to work with some decent photographers who are kind enough to talk to be about where they're at as well as be courteous to my part of the shooting. I tend to also be one of those people who like to get real close on the zooms, so many times you never see the photographer in there if they are sorta in front of me (if they are at all). A lot of what I see are too wide of shots. I try to get nice and close to the action to make it more intimate in my style.

Personally I think it's equally professional of a photographer if they show some courtesy to other fellow media vendors trying to make the best of their day and not getting in the video people's way. For me though it comes down to just approaching the photographer(s), be friendly and get an idea what they're doing and then work either with or around them. Generally they've been great.

That is one of the big advantages to my company is that we have a photographer/videographer team and that is a huge thing in already having a team that works well with each other to making sure both the mediums are well covered and presented with minimal intrusion.

It's a tough topic and I guess there isn't one sure-fire way to making things work every time. The Wedding couple just needs to know this up front and I always have this on my contract that it's incidental things out of my control if I'm in a pre-positioned shot, stuck there and being blocked by anyone. I adapt fast and get a different angle if needed, but I do put that in the contract just to cover myself in case.

That looked like a doozy of a wedding trying to avoid those photographers getting right in front of your shots. Sorry, man. :(

Re: Wedding nightmare
 

Agree a 100% we offer video and photography and the other times I get hired by a studio it\'s with a photographer I worked with. It\'s smooth sailing all the way, sometimes the photog do get carried away but is quick to apologize.