Amateur Recital Video Editing

Brad Ridgeway · June 9th, 2011, 10:11 AM

I am not at my editing PC right now, but I believe Vegas Pro 10 already gives me the option to render using Cineform. I also need to try the Lagarith as suggested.

I am still deep into the editing proces right now, but I am trying to use a 1 hour portion of my project to try different rendering settings for downconversion to DVD. I already have a DVD format directly out of vegas, but I also want to try TMPGEnc to compare the difference in quality. I'm trying to experiment simultaneously as I am editing so when the editing is done, I'm ready to go at it.

Eric Olson · June 9th, 2011, 02:03 PM

Dear Brad,

As an alternative to a two disk DVD set, you could consider a blu-ray + DVD package. Squeeze the entire 4 to 5 hour program onto a single 4.7GB DVD using 352x480 resolution with 4:3 aspect ratio; also master the program in wide-screen high-defintion onto a 25GB blu-ray disk using H264 encoding. The DVD will look fine on an old CRT television and the blu-ray will look better than even the best DVD on an HD LCD television.

-Eric

Brad Ridgeway · June 10th, 2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Houchins II

Check out the veg file I included in my post. Open up the effects applied to the clip on the timeline to see exactly what I did. Hopefully it's accessible there. Use the same clip you posted online as the source.
I'm assuming this will work for you ;-)

Much thanks to Sam for the Color Curve suggestion for cleaning up the "bright" clips!!! Last night I was able to dramatically improve all the cuts on my timelines! I had only used limited cuts because of the brightness, but now I feel more comfortable cutting with the adjustments so I'm probably going to go back and add some more.

Sam Houchins II · June 10th, 2011, 11:24 AM

Great news, Brad...
I wish I could accept more of the credit, but it's a technique I learned right here on DVInfo, in a much earlier post :-)
Pass it on when it's your turn!
Sometimes a nudge of contrast makes it pop too, but your footage was so close to great, it didn't seem to need it.

Dustin Moore · June 10th, 2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

Dear Brad,

As an alternative to a two disk DVD set, you could consider a blu-ray + DVD package. Squeeze the entire 4 to 5 hour program onto a single 4.7GB DVD using 352x480 resolution with 4:3 aspect ratio; also master the program in wide-screen high-defintion onto a 25GB blu-ray disk using H264 encoding. The DVD will look fine on an old CRT television and the blu-ray will look better than even the best DVD on an HD LCD television.

-Eric

With only 352 pixels across that DVD is going to look awful on any decent CRT. It is more likely that the
client will watch the DVD on a hi-def LCD panel and when the LCD goes to upsample that 352x480 to
1080P it is going to looking like cell phone video that has had bad interlacing artifacts added.

It is entirely possible that no one will ever look at the Blueray due to lack of BD player or due to bad
experience with the defectively encoded DVD version.

It seems reasonable to make two regular 720x480 DVDs. At two hours per disk one might consider
using Cinemacraft basic as that will probably be noticeably better at 2 hours than the mainconcept
on full quality. I do 10+ hour event videos on a regular basis and these are always four disc sets with
about 2.2 hours per disc but I'd rather be doing 2 hrs even. Cinemacraft is very nice.

At any rate, if you can't give them a functional DVD product then give them no DVD product
and force them to watch the Blueray. If they see a bad DVD they might not take the time
to locate a blueray player and go to the effort to watch the decent HD version.

Sam Houchins II · June 10th, 2011, 03:21 PM

Why not dual layer, 8.5GB DVD's?

Eric Olson · June 10th, 2011, 11:09 PM

The resolution of 352x480 is about the same as analog NTSC broadcast. While a 720x480 encode cropped pan-scan to 528x480 may be sharper, it is a matter of opinion how significant this improvement is when viewing the program on a CRT television.

The retailers here are selling blu-ray players for less than $100 and have devoted half their DVD shelf space to blu-ray discs. Given the amount of marketing which states why blu-ray is better than DVD, I think most viewers who are concerned about the picture quality will soon have a blu-ray player. Since blu-ray burners cost $100 and writable 25GB discs are less than $1.50 each, I would encourage blu-ray + DVD packaging for any project where the quality of the source video is good enough.

The problem with dual layer DVD+R's is that people put them in very old DVD players and then complain that the discs are defective.

Brad Ridgeway · June 13th, 2011, 08:17 AM

I'm workin' away on this project and am now wanting to add credits at the very end of the video. I've done some research on the credit roll generated media and it seems like that's probably not the best approach for what I want to do. The attached Word doc shows all the information I want to use but it's not necessarily formatted to how I want it to look. You can see that there is a lot of info there. I basically want to list each performance title and then the names of the performers.

Any suggestions on the best approach to doing this? I have some ideas using multiple "generated texts" but I'm not sure if that's the best approach so I am looking for some input here.

Edward Troxel · June 13th, 2011, 08:59 AM

You could use the standard text generator and scroll it using the positioning tab.

You could create an image with all the text information (a TALL image) and then scroll that.

There's definitely multiple options available to you.

Mike Kujbida · June 13th, 2011, 09:29 AM

To expand on Edward's suggestion, here's a copy of a post I did recently on the Sony Vegas forum about the same thing.

Say you want to do a credit roll that runs the equivalent of 10 pages of text.
Open a new (single) text event, enter all your text and don't worry about the text going off the bottom of the screen.
Change the text attributes as desired (character by character if you want which the credit roll won't allow).
Figure out how long you want the roll to be and set the length of the text event accordingly.
Switch to the placement tab.
Click in the text box and drag the text down until it just disappears off the bottom of the screen.
Reset the X value to '0' as odds are that it changed a bit.
Go to the end of the timeline and add another keyframe.
Put a - (minus) sign in front of the Y value.
Confirm that the text has just disappeared off the top of the screen.
Adjust if needed.
That should be it.
Exit and test.

Garrett Low · June 13th, 2011, 10:24 AM

Since you've got the Word document a good and quick way to do it is to use Ed and Mike method of scrolling tall image. This method sounds a little round about but it works to preserve the exact look I want for the credit scroll. It also allows me to use text formatting and layouts that I would not otherwise we able to:

1. Once you have your Word file with the text the way you want it to appear print a high quality pdf.
2. Open the pdf in Adobe Photoshop
3. Save as a Photoshop file.

You can use the Photoshop file on a Sony Vegas Timeline and it give the cleanest looking text other than using the text generator in Vegas. I can also get a good smooth scroll using this method and it allows me to use the very nice text FX's available in Word and Photoshop.

I'm sure there are a hundred ways to do this but that's a method that works for me and allows me to get as creative or simple as I want.

-Garrett

Brad Ridgeway · June 15th, 2011, 09:46 PM

The next hurdle is authoring. I want to create my menus in Photoshop, import to DVD Architect, and use buttons with no text over my menu selections. I'm having a hard time figuring out what size to make the Photoshop file and where the "safe zones" might be. Any suggestions?

Garrett Low · June 15th, 2011, 10:13 PM

I'm still working in Photoshop CS3 but CS5 should be the same. Open Photoshop got to

File->New->

Under Preset select Film & Video, choose Size to be HDTV 1080p/29.97

The image will be 1920x1080 at 72 pixels/inch. The attached picture is the screen showing the settings.

The canvas will show 10% safe areas.

-Garrett

Brad Ridgeway · June 16th, 2011, 06:36 AM

Should I still be using the 1920x1080 setting even if my project is at 720x480 in DVD Architect?

Brad Ridgeway · June 17th, 2011, 07:56 PM

I am trying to convert disc 1 of my project to DVD (MPEG) format using TMPGEnc with the settings shown in the following link... DVD-HQ : Configuring TMPGEnc for high-quality DVD-compliant MPEG-2. My source is a Cineform AVI file (YUV 4:2:2 High) which I rendered out of Vegas.

TMPGEnc acts like is encoding and takes about 5 hours to process the 120 Gb file (141 minutes of video) but when done, I get an M2V output file of only 175 Mb which won't play. I tried changing the field order on the Advanced tab from Bottom to Top and then I got 2.2 Gb file that still won't play. I'm expecting an output file that is about 4.1 Gb.

Any ideas what might be going on here?

June 9th, 2011, 10:11 AM	#46
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I am not at my editing PC right now, but I believe Vegas Pro 10 already gives me the option to render using Cineform. I also need to try the Lagarith as suggested. I am still deep into the editing proces right now, but I am trying to use a 1 hour portion of my project to try different rendering settings for downconversion to DVD. I already have a DVD format directly out of vegas, but I also want to try TMPGEnc to compare the difference in quality. I'm trying to experiment simultaneously as I am editing so when the editing is done, I'm ready to go at it.

June 9th, 2011, 02:03 PM	#47
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Dear Brad, As an alternative to a two disk DVD set, you could consider a blu-ray + DVD package. Squeeze the entire 4 to 5 hour program onto a single 4.7GB DVD using 352x480 resolution with 4:3 aspect ratio; also master the program in wide-screen high-defintion onto a 25GB blu-ray disk using H264 encoding. The DVD will look fine on an old CRT television and the blu-ray will look better than even the best DVD on an HD LCD television. -Eric Last edited by Eric Olson; June 9th, 2011 at 08:23 PM.

June 10th, 2011, 11:24 AM	#49
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Great news, Brad... I wish I could accept more of the credit, but it's a technique I learned right here on DVInfo, in a much earlier post :-) Pass it on when it's your turn! Sometimes a nudge of contrast makes it pop too, but your footage was so close to great, it didn't seem to need it.

June 10th, 2011, 03:21 PM	#51
Sam Houchins II Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 282	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Why not dual layer, 8.5GB DVD's?

June 10th, 2011, 11:09 PM	#52
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing The resolution of 352x480 is about the same as analog NTSC broadcast. While a 720x480 encode cropped pan-scan to 528x480 may be sharper, it is a matter of opinion how significant this improvement is when viewing the program on a CRT television. The retailers here are selling blu-ray players for less than $100 and have devoted half their DVD shelf space to blu-ray discs. Given the amount of marketing which states why blu-ray is better than DVD, I think most viewers who are concerned about the picture quality will soon have a blu-ray player. Since blu-ray burners cost $100 and writable 25GB discs are less than $1.50 each, I would encourage blu-ray + DVD packaging for any project where the quality of the source video is good enough. The problem with dual layer DVD+R's is that people put them in very old DVD players and then complain that the discs are defective. Last edited by Eric Olson; June 11th, 2011 at 01:22 AM.

June 13th, 2011, 08:59 AM	#54
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing You could use the standard text generator and scroll it using the positioning tab. You could create an image with all the text information (a TALL image) and then scroll that. There's definitely multiple options available to you. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 13th, 2011, 09:29 AM	#55
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing To expand on Edward's suggestion, here's a copy of a post I did recently on the Sony Vegas forum about the same thing. Say you want to do a credit roll that runs the equivalent of 10 pages of text. Open a new (single) text event, enter all your text and don't worry about the text going off the bottom of the screen. Change the text attributes as desired (character by character if you want which the credit roll won't allow). Figure out how long you want the roll to be and set the length of the text event accordingly. Switch to the placement tab. Click in the text box and drag the text down until it just disappears off the bottom of the screen. Reset the X value to '0' as odds are that it changed a bit. Go to the end of the timeline and add another keyframe. Put a - (minus) sign in front of the Y value. Confirm that the text has just disappeared off the top of the screen. Adjust if needed. That should be it. Exit and test.

June 13th, 2011, 10:24 AM	#56
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Since you've got the Word document a good and quick way to do it is to use Ed and Mike method of scrolling tall image. This method sounds a little round about but it works to preserve the exact look I want for the credit scroll. It also allows me to use text formatting and layouts that I would not otherwise we able to: 1. Once you have your Word file with the text the way you want it to appear print a high quality pdf. 2. Open the pdf in Adobe Photoshop 3. Save as a Photoshop file. You can use the Photoshop file on a Sony Vegas Timeline and it give the cleanest looking text other than using the text generator in Vegas. I can also get a good smooth scroll using this method and it allows me to use the very nice text FX's available in Word and Photoshop. I'm sure there are a hundred ways to do this but that's a method that works for me and allows me to get as creative or simple as I want. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

June 15th, 2011, 09:46 PM	#57
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing The next hurdle is authoring. I want to create my menus in Photoshop, import to DVD Architect, and use buttons with no text over my menu selections. I'm having a hard time figuring out what size to make the Photoshop file and where the "safe zones" might be. Any suggestions?

June 15th, 2011, 10:13 PM	#58
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I'm still working in Photoshop CS3 but CS5 should be the same. Open Photoshop got to File->New-> Under Preset select Film & Video, choose Size to be HDTV 1080p/29.97 The image will be 1920x1080 at 72 pixels/inch. The attached picture is the screen showing the settings. The canvas will show 10% safe areas. -Garrett Attached Thumbnails __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

June 16th, 2011, 06:36 AM	#59
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Should I still be using the 1920x1080 setting even if my project is at 720x480 in DVD Architect?

June 17th, 2011, 07:56 PM	#60
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I am trying to convert disc 1 of my project to DVD (MPEG) format using TMPGEnc with the settings shown in the following link... DVD-HQ : Configuring TMPGEnc for high-quality DVD-compliant MPEG-2. My source is a Cineform AVI file (YUV 4:2:2 High) which I rendered out of Vegas. TMPGEnc acts like is encoding and takes about 5 hours to process the 120 Gb file (141 minutes of video) but when done, I get an M2V output file of only 175 Mb which won't play. I tried changing the field order on the Advanced tab from Bottom to Top and then I got 2.2 Gb file that still won't play. I'm expecting an output file that is about 4.1 Gb. Any ideas what might be going on here?