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Old January 25th, 2016, 10:03 AM   #166
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Hi Olof,

Could you please tell me if those Canon FD legacy lenses are good enough for full-blown UHD on this camera? This might be an important factor for me, as I have several of them (used with the FS100 I sold).

TIA, Piotr
Hi Piotr,

I published this a while ago. Shot on the FS5 using the 50mm f1.4 Canon FD lens from 70's. You can download the file I uploaded from FCPX (yes it is compressed) but it shows use of that lens. here are my comments from the test:

Shot with the FS5 and a Canon EF 50mm f1.4 @ 1.4.
Just playing with PPs a bit. First shown w/o grading, then with grading, in FCPX using ColorFinale and some basic correction then adding REC 709 Tetrachrome 400 FC LUT at 60%.
I also added the Orisis Vision 4 LUT in the end just to see how it pushes around for fun.
t was shot XAVC-L 1080 30P on the FS5 with a Canon 50mm EF f1.4 @1.4 Metabones V4 latest FW.




Here is a UHD partially with the lens:


Notes from that test:
Some basic testing I always do when I first get a new cam.
I started this session with an old Canon FD 50mm f1.4 lens from the 70’s, not sharpest lens wide open, but I always liked this lens. And it is tiny and very light. Used it originally on my old FTb.
Then I switched to the kit lens. It is sharper for sure. For the second half of the tests. Also it was stopped down to f5. I had to use the vari ND to use the f1.4 on the Canon lens. I really like using the vari ND to set exposure, especially on a click f-stop still lens.
I am starting to explore the PPs and so far using scopes and production 20” ProMonitor and my Odyssey 7Q+ I set up two custom profiles yesterday, that I did some outdoor tests with. I will post more footage when I get a chance.
This was shot internally in UHD 30p 100mb/s. No CC at all just dropped in a UHD timeline and exported as best quality 4K (UHD) to Vimeo, you can download the uploaded version, this has been compressed as well by FCPX.
Most of my shooting these days is in HD. I will do a bunch of that also, but I thought it was interesting to start with some UHD.
This is shot in my studio, I have a North facing Palladian window there that casts a very nice natural light, I sometimes use it for interviews. I can vary the BG quickly. But I love natural North light. I white balanced and it read as 6000K pretty normal here for an overcast day.
I know this will be boring to some but this is how I start to explore a new cam, and some of you may find this interesting.
One thing I can’t find in the menus is custom clip naming. Every time I format a card it starts over clip00001 etc. Probably just me. If not I hope next firmware will fix this.
Happy Thanksgiving.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 11:39 PM   #167
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Thanks a lot, Olof!

You probably remember my neck spine, post-surgery problems with the chronic pain (to hell with pain), but also weakness of all 4 limbs. I haven't been actively shooting for some 2 years now, but - being an engineer as much as videographer - I just cannot pass on all those new developments in camera technology (of course I also edit my own stuff). With the additional information that my right arm is trembling under light load (and can be stable under a heavier one, though for limited periods of time) - what would you advise me to buy:

- the lightweight but technologically less advanced FS5, or
- the heavier, but more advanced FS7?

Hint: even with any of them, I would probably be using the tripod or shoulder rig most of the time, if I were shooting serious stuff destined for production, but it's nice sometimes to take just the camera with you, and get some nice shoots hand-held... TIA man,

Piotr
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Old January 26th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #168
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

The FS5 is not designed to be used as a shoulder mount camera. Can you add a bunch of accessories and turn it into one? Yes, but why bother? The FS7 is the right camera to buy for shoulder mount shooting.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 07:47 AM   #169
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Yes I'm aware that the FS5 is not a shoulder mount camera by design - but that's what meant by stressing that my right arm is not up to the task of holding one stably for a prolonged time...

And what's the general consensus about the low-light performance between the two - is the FS7 much cleaner, Doug?

Piotr

PS. OK, I think my last question ws a bit silly, as there are a plethora of influencing factors; but the measured (not the announced) S/N - is it different between FS5 and FS7? My EX1 has been great, but noisy :( Oh, and I'd like to add that for my current purposes, I'm fine with just 25p in 4:2:0 for UHD...
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; January 26th, 2016 at 08:25 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 08:28 AM   #170
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

I have not compared the two cameras side by side in low light. But with that said, I disagree with the people who say the FS5 is bad in low light. I have not found that to be the case if the correct settings are used. If you have problems with your right arm, my strong advice is not to buy an FS5 because that is where all the weight and manueverability is located.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 08:36 AM   #171
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

On the other hand, if the camera is good enough to give me a kick - this could be a good exercise for my arm, don't you think?

But seriously: is anyone using it on a shoulder mount with the handgrip attached to the right Redrock-style handle, and with something like Zacuto EVF?
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Old January 26th, 2016, 08:43 AM   #172
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Thanks a lot, Olof!

You probably remember my neck spine, post-surgery problems with the chronic pain (to hell with pain), but also weakness of all 4 limbs. I haven't been actively shooting for some 2 years now, but - being an engineer as much as videographer - I just cannot pass on all those new developments in camera technology (of course I also edit my own stuff). With the additional information that my right arm is trembling under light load (and can be stable under a heavier one, though for limited periods of time) - what would you advise me to buy:

- the lightweight but technologically less advanced FS5, or
- the heavier, but more advanced FS7?

Hint: even with any of them, I would probably be using the tripod or shoulder rig most of the time, if I were shooting serious stuff destined for production, but it's nice sometimes to take just the camera with you, and get some nice shoots hand-held... TIA man,

Piotr
The 7 and the 5 are very different cams. Both good at what they do. I don't want to go into this in detail here, enough has been written about that.

If you can comfortable use a DSLR, then you will do great with the FS5. It is about the same weight. Yes it can be adopted for shouldering but the FS7 is made specifically for that so it is much better. A shoulder cam actually needs have some heft to be more stable. This could be a problem if you have a medical condition making your shoulders and arms/neck weak and painful.

A simple chest brace for the FS5, I will be making one of these, is really better for prolonged FS5 shooting IMHO. But I also like shooting with it just as is, like I did with my C100, as a matter of fact you can think of the FS5 as a better C100 IMHO.

Also bear in mind that the FS7 is a far more capable camera with many more features and in my opinion superior processing and options/settings and better image quality, but much more complex, not a grab and shoot like the FS5. And it is certainly heavier than an EX3/EX1 but a very nice shoulder cam lighter than the DSR500 (one of my all time fav cams) and cams like that. But if you are on sticks most of the time and not carrying long distances and possible using a wheeled bag. The FS7 may be better.

As far as low light they are about the same, they have the same imager. Much better than the EX1/3 that you now use, as I remember.

Borrow or rent both or at least demo them in a camera store for a long session on shoulder etc. It will then be obvious which works better for you.

I hope you are having a great winter in Poland. Stay warm...
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Old January 26th, 2016, 09:09 AM   #173
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

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Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh View Post
Also bear in mind that the FS7 is a far more capable camera with many more features and in my opinion superior processing and options/settings and better image quality, but much more complex, not a grab and shoot like the FS5.
This is exactly what makes me want one, Olof :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh View Post
I hope you are having a great winter in Poland. Stay warm...
Actually not so great - too little snow and to warm for my taste; winters in Poland have become more of prolonged falls... Climate changes.

Thanks for your advise, Olof. I still think that with additional stuff attached, the FS5 would be heavy enough to be stable on my shoulder, just like the FS100 did - they are more or less the same weight, aren't they.... And I have such a device ready - solid, with Redrock handles and a plate so devised that I can take the rig off my shoulder and fix it to the tripod in a second...
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Old January 26th, 2016, 09:56 AM   #174
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Thanks for your advise, Olof. I still think that with additional stuff attached, the FS5 would be heavy enough to be stable on my shoulder, just like the FS100 did - they are more or less the same weight, aren't they.... And I have such a device ready - solid, with Redrock handles and a plate so devised that I can take the rig off my shoulder and fix it to the tripod in a second...
I would grab all my stuff, EVF shoulder rig etc. and go to a dealer and see if he would let you rig up a FS5, or maybe rent on for a day and see if it works for you.

If you did not have all the stuff EVF, shoulder rig, counterweight etc then you may as well just buy the FS7 as it is already set up for shouldering with a workable EVF (a bit long and clumsy but it works fine). You can also add a softer shoulder pad (like the one I make or many others on the market) and brick batteries in the back.

The only way you will know is by actually trying it out yourself, we all are built differently and work differently so...
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Old January 26th, 2016, 10:23 AM   #175
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Yeah... Back to image quality tough: just read through a thread on another forum (comments on the last Sony statement on the "perceived imperfections"), and it doesn't look good for the FS5.

I admit I haven't' read these forums for a long while, so pardon my ignorance - did the FS7 also have such teething problems?
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Old January 26th, 2016, 12:18 PM   #176
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
I admit I haven't' read these forums for a long while, so pardon my ignorance - did the FS7 also have such teething problems?
It does not feel to me any different than any camera I have purchased since the advent of internet forums.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 04:28 PM   #177
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

First TV spot I've shot with the FS5:


I posted a thread in "Show your Work" as well:

Vanpool TV spots
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Old January 26th, 2016, 05:43 PM   #178
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Outstanding work, Mike!
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:05 AM   #179
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

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Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh View Post
I would grab all my stuff, EVF shoulder rig etc. and go to a dealer and see if he would let you rig up a FS5, or maybe rent on for a day and see if it works for you.

If you did not have all the stuff EVF, shoulder rig, counterweight etc then you may as well just buy the FS7 as it is already set up for shouldering with a workable EVF (a bit long and clumsy but it works fine). You can also add a softer shoulder pad (like the one I make or many others on the market) and brick batteries in the back.

The only way you will know is by actually trying it out yourself, we all are built differently and work differently so...
Doug, Olof and other helping souls:

I have another important question, regarding the lenses for both FS5 and FS7. I don't want / can't spend too much initially, so please take it into account in your advice ;) I'd like it to communicate with camera, and preferably not require any adapter, so I guess we're talking Sony E-mount lenses... So:

- is the kit lens that comes with the FS5K any good for general use?
- same question about the FS7K kit lens (I heard the camera distortion compensation doesn't work well with it in 4K - if still true, which one instead?)

TIA
Piotr
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Old January 27th, 2016, 07:59 AM   #180
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Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Doug, Olof and other helping souls:

I have another important question, regarding the lenses for both FS5 and FS7. I don't want / can't spend too much initially, so please take it into account in your advice ;) I'd like it to communicate with camera, and preferably not require any adapter, so I guess we're talking Sony E-mount lenses... So:

- is the kit lens that comes with the FS5K any good for general use?
- same question about the FS7K kit lens (I heard the camera distortion compensation doesn't work well with it in 4K - if still true, which one instead?)

TIA
Piotr
The kit lens for $500.00 is pretty good. Is it a great lens, no. Do I use it, yes. Do I like it, yes and no.

The good part is with clear scan you get field of view from 18-210 in HD, about 18-160 in UHD, at a constant f4. For $500 this is remarkable. I also find the distortion is well compensated and not an issue on the FS5 in UHD and HD. The lens is basically parfocal and does not expand or spin the front element. The IS works well and it is light and small.

The bad part is, it is hard to focus. Make that very hard to focus manually. The instant auto focus works OK, as a matter of fact it can be the easy to use once you get used to it. But manual focus is kind of ridiculous, it seems to change all the time, sometimes very touchy and other times not very responsive, I still have not made good friends with it after 20 hrs or so of shooting with it.

But the range is so good that I end up using it a lot.

Once again you have to test it yourself to decide if it fits your style of shooting. The 28-135 is a much better lens, but more money, bigger and not really very wide. But that may work for your style of shooting.

Lenses just like cameras are very personal. I have a bunch on Canon L EF glass and old FD glass I really like using on a lot of different cams, so I use them on the FS5 as well.

One great thing about the FS5 is that even clicked lenses are very easy to use with the Vari ND. I have to say I prefer manual lenses to auto lenses.

My bottom line is for $500 the kit lens is so cheap it just makes sense to keep it. But that is just me.
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