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Old July 22nd, 2020, 04:51 PM   #61
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh well a lot of them I found sound very 'thin'. I don't know if thin is the right word but it's hard to describe, like there needs to be more bass or something. I can keep looking, but in the past, if I try to put a sound in recorded by different mics, it would sound different so I thought if I were going to use the same mics that I would record the rest of the movie with, then it would sound more similar.
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Old July 22nd, 2020, 09:23 PM   #62
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

All that extra bass etc is probably added in post with EQ, reverb, compression, etc., to give it "oomph" and fit it into the environment (i.e. gunshot on a city street will echo differently than gunshot in a small room).
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Old July 23rd, 2020, 12:32 AM   #63
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

A lot of what you hear in a movie gun shot is added in post. On my films more time was spent fiddling with gun shot sounds during the track laying and mixing than any other sound effect.

It will also depend on the quality of your sound system, they sounded a lot more impressive in the mixing suite (on a short we used one used for mixing feature films) and the in the cinema than in the editing room.

If you check that link that i put up about recording loud sounds, you'll find various guns firing in the sound effects tab. You have to pay for them, but the main difference between these and the free ones is that you've got vastly more choice on the shot sounds from each gun.
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Old July 23rd, 2020, 02:23 AM   #64
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
Oh okay, well even though I could use a library of gunshots, I still thought I should go out and record my own just for more options. As for mic choice I was thinking of using a shot gun mic. I thought about standing about a couple of feet away with the mic, pointed at the chamber area of the rifles.
Not just no, but HELL NO to this idea. A shotgun mic two feet away from a gun is likely to not just distort, but its diaphragm might be permanently damaged by the extreme sound level.

Note also that most of the sound of a gun discharge is emitted at the end of the barrel as the highly compressed gas inside expands into the atmosphere right after the bullet flies out. With higher powered weapons, there is also a brief, higher frequency "crack" sound which is essentially the sonic boom generated by the projectile. You'll get different sounds with microphones at different angles to the rifle. My starting point would probably be between the shooter and the target, but 45į off to one side, and pointed at the barrel of the gun. (That's where the mic goes, but NOT YOU! Long cables are your friend.) Experiment.

When recording gunshots, use a dynamic microphone known to be able to handle high sound pressure levels, and stay at least 10 to 20 feet back from the gun. The directional pattern of the mic doesn't even matter that much since the high intensity of the gunshot will completely overwhelm any noise in the environment. (It might affect the perspective or sense of "air" or reverberation around the effect, though. Experiment.)

From my personal mic locker, I'd probably start with my Electro-Voice RE20. That's a big dynamic microphone that is often used INSIDE of bass drums in recording studios and can handle really impressive SPLs without distortion. Even my RE50 omni might work pretty well. A good shock mount will be helpful to keep the mic body from rattling. I would keep all my condenser mics back in their Pelicans locked in the car while doing this. Experiment.

I used to shoot a hunting and fishing series and have recorded hundreds of gunshots in the past (although ironically, I have never fired a weapon myself). Only ever blew up one microphone, although I think rough handling and water damage may have had more to do with it than gunshot SPLs.

- Greg
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Old July 23rd, 2020, 02:32 AM   #65
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

I love the idea about experimenting. Most sound recordists in the UK will never have heard the real sound of a gun - any gun, so we're all so accustomed to the sounds we hear on TV and movies. My first perception of gunshots came from cowboy movies and TV shows set in the US Wild West, plus the TV series Thunderbirds, which always seemed to make guns sound like a ricochet sound. The first time I heard a real gun, it was very disappointing. It went bang, and the recording (made with an SM57) sounded so unlike a real gun to my idiot ears, I ditched it and went for a processed sound effect track.
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Old July 23rd, 2020, 11:37 PM   #66
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay thanks. I thought that a condenser mic would work with a gun as long as the gain was turned down very low. I didn't think I should be 10-20 feet away, because I wanted to try to match the close up perspective of the shots I will doing later. But thank you very much for the input.
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Old July 24th, 2020, 07:32 AM   #67
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

I meant to add that recorded gunshots, or real live gunshots for that matter, don't sound much at all like what we hear on TV and in the movies (except for big artillery, cannons and such). The real sound is more of a brief "pop" without a lot of low frequency content (although it's definitely loud).

So it's possible that you could do a perfect job of recording an accurate reproduction of a real weapon in the exact same acoustic environment as required in your movie, and the audience still wouldn't buy it because it's so different from what they've heard all their lives in previous films. I certainly encourage you to try it if only for the contacts you'll make and what you might learn from doing it, but in the end, using an existing (but less technically accurate) SFX library recording may actually serve your story and audience better.

Just be prepared.

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Old July 24th, 2020, 07:53 AM   #68
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

For one gun shot in a film I recall mixing the SFX from the library of a field gun, a pistol and a rifle. I can't remember if we used used that or just the pistol and rifle in the end. Dramatically, this pistol shot needed to make the audience jump and the real thing wouldn't do that, but our final mix did. No one has ever questioned it.

In the same film we had some AK47 shots, they didn't get changed much, that gun has a quite distinctive sound. I can't remember if the sound recordist recorded those, since the weapons were firing blanks, so was an option on the shooting day or if the were from a SFX library.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; July 24th, 2020 at 10:20 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2020, 10:51 AM   #69
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay sure. I can use previous recorded shots if that's better than. I just thought since I am going to the shooting range and being allowed to record for free anyway, then why not. But if they do not turn out well, I can always use other recordings if that's best.
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Old July 24th, 2020, 11:37 AM   #70
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

The choice is yours, just be aware of safety if placing a mic down range, especially if there are other users. Some gun users can have a relaxed attitude to the matter.
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Old July 27th, 2020, 07:39 AM   #71
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

"Hey, look at that nice shiny little target!"
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Old July 28th, 2020, 10:38 PM   #72
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay thanks. I will do that. Thank for all for all into, everyone!

So no field recorder has the numbers on them though at all? I guess I find that kind of strange, since camera still tell you what ISO or f-stop you are at for example, instead of just not numbering them.
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Old July 29th, 2020, 12:11 AM   #73
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Numbers on audio faders are probably pointless. You NEED to know iris settings to make decisions to do with dof or perhaps to assess when you are close to limits but it in audio apart from perhaps using them to put two at the same level, they donít really do much and rotary pots are really difficult to read anyway. My Tascam has tiny numbers on a tiny knob so experience says to set gain usually means turning it all the way down and then up to around half. A teeny bit up or down watching an LED change colour is all I need to get it sorted. My Zoom is labelled 1-10 what the numbers mean is unimportant.
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Old July 29th, 2020, 09:29 AM   #74
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

He's still talking about numbers on audio faders? He really struggles understand simple concepts. He wants to video by numbers and rules.
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Old July 29th, 2020, 12:34 PM   #75
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Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

My Marshall guitar amp goes to 11..
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