The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know? - Page 4 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 22nd, 2020, 11:39 AM   #46
also known as Ryan Wray
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,834
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay, well even though I could use a library of gunshots, I still thought I should go out and record my own just for more options. As for mic choice I was thinking of using a shot gun mic. I thought about standing about a couple of feet away with the mic, pointed at the chamber area of the rifles.

A lot of online gunshots, they sound like they were recorded from too far away. I could turn them up of course, but then I am closer to the noise floor. But I can also keep looking for better ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson View Post
Peaking is where the modulation of the signal exceeds a pre-determined maximum. In video, we often accept too much light as just a white maximum, that if it's on certain areas can't really be noticed - but is clearly bad, while in audio, over level results in very unpleasant result.

Modulation is not a common term for sound folk to use relating to audio. It is in RF circles, where we modulate carrier waves with either amplitude or frequency signals. I don't think I've ever considered microphones or other capture devices to modulate. It normally signifies the interaction of two or more frequencies. Interesting point, but can you modulate silence with audio? That's a multi-page discussion. You can modulate audio with hum. Over modulating is not the same as having too potent a signal. Is there a term for the AM version of FM overdeviating - not sure I've heard one.

Have I drifted too far ............. ?
So are you saying over-modulation is where the levels are going beyond the desired level setting, that you have want? For example if you set it for -12 db, and it keeps going over that, is that what over-modulating means?

I looked up the term modulation, and got some different definitions, but is this the one you mean?
Ryan Elder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 11:59 AM   #47
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,838
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

In this context over modulation means when exceeding 0db the sound becomes distorted and clipped. This is why you always leave head room. Since gun shots are out of the norm and have a sudden burst of extreme loud sound, you will have to record a test to see how much head room you'll need.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:00 PM   #48
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,102
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

In this case and in the way people commonly use the term over modulation regarding audio, it's when you get clipping. This usually at 0dB on the scale of a peak audio meter, when you get distortion.

I don't think you'll have an issue with the noise floor if you're closer than 12 ft to a rifle, possibly even further than that, I gather that a small 22-caliber rifle can produce around 140 dB, while big-bore rifles and pistols can produce sound over 175 dB. I would be careful about getting too close at sound levels like that because you'll get distortion.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:10 PM   #49
also known as Ryan Wray
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,834
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay thanks. Yes, I know what clipping is, that helps, explain it, thanks.

So when you say do not get too close because it will cause distortion, by distortion, do you mean clipping distortion, or a different kind of distortion?
Ryan Elder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:21 PM   #50
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,838
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

The distortion that Brian is referring to results when getting too close to a loud sound source. The microphone itself has a limitation how much sound pressure it can handle before distorting. It would be similar to putting a condenser mic up to your mouth and shouting into it. Even if the mixer doesn't exceed 0db it will still sound distorted.

Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; July 22nd, 2020 at 02:57 PM.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:27 PM   #51
also known as Ryan Wray
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,834
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh yes, I see what you mean. I can do tests then. When it comes to the F8 field recorder, or any other field recorder, are there any features that can tell you if you are too close or not? For example in cameras, they have features like focus peaking, that highlight what is in focus and what is not in focus, to help with focusing.

But is there anything like that for audio that can tell you if you are too close or too far away from a sound source?
Ryan Elder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:35 PM   #52
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,102
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

I don't know why you don't think things out when you plan to do these things. Google is your friend and you'll get the answers far faster than in a forum. Here's how the experts do it:

https://www.asoundeffect.com/how-to-...y-loud-things/
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:49 PM   #53
also known as Ryan Wray
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,834
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay I thought I was planning it out as best I could but never recorded something this loud before, so it's new territory for me. But I thought I was still planning it out.

Or at least my plan was to set the fader to the middle then turn the gain till the gun shots feel right, and test out different distances.
Ryan Elder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 12:49 PM   #54
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,838
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
I don't know why you don't think things out when you plan to do these things. Google is your friend and you'll get the answers far faster than in a forum. Here's how the experts do it:

https://www.asoundeffect.com/how-to-...y-loud-things/
Why are you always taking the fun out of things? We could have spent another day speculating. :-p
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 01:15 PM   #55
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,697
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

I wonder whether anyone in this forum has recorded gunshots. If not, as Brian points out (excellent article by the way, Brian!), Google might be a much better place to start looking. There is a ton of stuff there about gunshot SPL, recording gunshots, gunshot sound effects, etc. That is a much more specific place to look.

If nobody here offers specific advice based on personal experience, then Ryan, if you really want to record your own (rather than use pre-recorded SFX) then I second Brian's suggestion: head on over to Google.

Last edited by Greg Miller; July 22nd, 2020 at 01:48 PM.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 01:33 PM   #56
also known as Ryan Wray
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,834
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh okay thanks I will do that, thanks. As for SPL, is that why a lot of gunshots sound effecst, sound like they are recorded from far away, because the mic needs to be far away to prevent distortion?
Ryan Elder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 02:33 PM   #57
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,992
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

I use dynamic mics when recording L O U D sources. Inherently, dynamic mics can handle higher SPLs than condensers. An SM57/58, Sennheiser 421 are popular choices The Shure SM11 dynamic lavaliere is good in limited space areas like engine compartments.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 04:02 PM   #58
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lowestoft - UK
Posts: 3,808
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

You don't record sound effects by changing distance for SPL reasons, you do it to match the picture. If you are standing next to the shooter, you need to record a close perspective, so you use pads - if you record from a distance your picture needs to show the gun at the same distance.

Did we not do gunshot recording a couple of years back?
Paul R Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 04:16 PM   #59
also known as Ryan Wray
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,834
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

Oh if we did, I didn't get to do those recordings back then. But yes, the plan was to get close gunshots, because all of the stock sounds of gunshots I can find online, do not sound close enough, so I want to get close.
Ryan Elder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2020, 04:29 PM   #60
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,102
Re: The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

I found free gun shot fx that were recorded close and at various distances in online libraries. I'm not sure what you expect these guns to sound like in a recording, the reality can be very different to what you imagine them to sound.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:00 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2021 The Digital Video Information Network