I like the idea of using a little camera as a deck. First, it is less expensive, second, it can record images!!! :) Those littles cameras can serve you well on vacations, travel or even on an ocasionnal 2 cameras shot.

some advantages I can come up with:
A- rewinds and fast forwards faster (good for batch capture)
B- may have more inputs and outputs, and can convert analog-digital
C- tape mechanism lasts longer
D- better quality electronics for converting analog-digital

For most people I don't think any of those advantages really help. A can save time, but most people capture the whole tape in one shot and don't sit around while a deck is batch capturing. B/D isn't necessary (your camera can do the job fine). C is the major reason for buying a deck, but really only applies to people who shoot hundreds of hours of footage. If you manage to wear out a $300 consumer camera (off eBay or whatever), then you've probably made a lot of money and didn't lose much money on the camera (I figure $200 versus buying a deck in the first place). In the opposite scenario, you've spend a bundle of cash on a deck and didn't use it enough to justify buying it (lost $500 or so). Not to mention a cheapo camera is good for family videos (not huge like 3CCD cameras).

Maybe I'm wrong?

I agree with Glenn.

My DCR-TRV900 has served me very well. Has analog in and out.

Yeah i'm also in the market for a cheap 1 chip to use as a vcr because i don't feel like ruining my 2100 just yet. just a stupid question though. even though they all say they have a ieee 1394 interface does that mean they also haev dv in capabilities or just dv out?

I might be wrong but I thought IEEE 1394 is both in/out. Not sure though...

yeah i just wanted to be sure before i killed $200 on some random ebay auction.

I am not sure though so WAIT before someone else who knows posts....

Some of the low-end cams (like my JVC GR-DVL300U) don't support pass-through, so I still end up using my GL-2 for color correction.

<<<-- Originally posted by George Brackett III : Some of the low-end cams (like my JVC GR-DVL300U) don't support pass-through, so I still end up using my GL-2 for color correction. -->>>

George, please elaborate.

Are you saying that you can use the GL2 custom presets to enhance footage passed from an analog cam through to your capture card? Or something else entirely?

I think that what Georges are saying is that he use his camcorder connected to a computer through firewire and connected to a monitor through an analog output (RCA or S-video) to view the effect of the color correction filters he apply in post production in real time on the monitor.

Some lower end cam does not support this feature.

Ohhhhh! That is differant. So, in place of a video card with r/t DVI/TV output to a monitor he uses the output passthrough on his GL2 to output to a monitor. That's ingenuity!

Still though, he said "use the GL2 for color correction". I hope he will elaborate.

No. All I'm saying is I use a monitor via the Firewire preview mode to adjust my colors per NTSC specs.

Why not just buy a cheap Sony mini-DV camcorder? I use my TRV-25 for playing. Yes most of the Sony mini-DV camcorders play DVCAM.

But they (Sony Mine DV cameras) do not record in DVCAM.
I find it much more beneficial to Master to DVCAM (if acquired via DVCAM or Mine DV) then to shoot in native DVCAM and master to Mine DV.

Alex

He said he is just looking something to import footage to his NLE, he didn't mention to use it for export, so for playback, a cheap mini-DV camcorder is fine.

I find it fairly safe to assume that most people will like to export there move to tape. Who dose not? Even if you are only distributing the product on DVD you will want to have a Master as a long term back up.

Alex

Hey..Thanks Guys,
Yep I could use a small camera for exporting to the NLE wich would take care of the ware and tear then if I wanted it back in DVCAM fomat I could go back to the camera I guess. Does that make any sense?
Thanks

the SR-VS30U is the cheapest deck i could find for importing DVCAM footage. it will not record DVCAM. cost is ~$900.

link -> http://www.dvshop.ca/vdecks/jvcdecks.html

You know, I"m thinking about getting a companion for my PDX10. A deck that is actually the PDX10's little brother...

Not the TRV950, but the TRV33.

I'm in the market for a cheap one, and I'm sure prices of these will drop even more.

Or I can buy a cheap miniDV (these play DVCAM? or not?) off ebay as well. Hmmm. Still probably a Sony or a Canon.

But the first way, I can use the TRV33 as a back up true 16:9 cam as well.

anyone have any experience with dubbing 44.1khz canon stuff on a sony deck (which the specs seem to say 32khz and 48khz are all it supports). I am not super smart when it comes to sound stuff, so i dont know if the quality can be "upsampled" without the sound being out of synch as well (much like how downsampling 25fps to 24fps slows the footage).

Anyone know?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=242757&is=REG

Last I knew, the Canon (at least NTSC version) does not capture at 44.1 kHz audio sample rate. It is 48 kHz 16-bit or 32 kHz 12-bit.

You should not have a problem copying to the GV-D1000. Any GOOD audio editing software should be able to upsample accuraely if necessary.

hmm.. maybe i'm crazy.. i dont know why my brain wants to say it was 44.1 haha. if it's 48, then cool. Thanks don.

YOur brain is not totally bonkers. 44.1 kHz sample rate is the standard for CD and MiniDisc. I believe that it is a little used/supported option for digital video. For example the Sony DHR-1000 DV VCR can play 44.1 kHz 16-bit audio (and 32 kHz 16-bit audio for that matter), but cannot record in that mode.

I am not a fan of using camcorders as video decks, however, if one uses a camera to shoot, and then uploads from camera b, this does insure that the tape path alignment of both cameras must be correct otherwise the signal won't play back in the b camera. This method is superior to using one camera to do everything.

If one is going to get a video deck afford a deck that plays the bigger DV-CAM tapes that could be a nice addition, but then again I can't stand
the decks that have no led meters on them.

So suddenly you are up to a couple of thousand dollars!

you arnet crazy, im not sure of the rates but have had problems in the past with audio in the past dubbing dv to beta. for some reason the high end sony decks would get major audio dropouts...as luck would have it my old net also had several older less high end sony decks and the dub from those worked fine.... seems the less expensive the sony dvcam deck the better the dub from canon source dont know why but hope this helps.

m

I've been keeping my eye out for a consumer camera to use as a deck... and would love to hear some specific suggestions of models that might work best.

Would love to find one with a damaged CCD since I wouldn't use that anyway.

I've spent the past 2 years using an el cheapo JVC camera as a deck and would still do that in portable situations but it doesn't look real professional, clients are starting to edit with me and I needed a deck that would also allow me capture from analog. I got a JVC pro deck from the classifieds here and it hass component video outs! I worked at a company using the svhs/DV dual and had problems with the 2 machines we had. Get a separate SVHS deck if you need it... less to go wrong.

Josh

Which JVC mini-deck has the component out?

When you say component are you referring to the three cable component signal?

Hi Guys,

I wonder if anybody could help me?

I have just aquired free of charge a GRD300 sony MiniDV tape Deck, I got it free because it has 1 problem, which is:

When you play a miniDV tape it will load and except it, play for about 6 seconds then flash caution and turn its self off. I can turn it back on again and eject the tape to do it all again.

3 questions:

1) Has anybody come across this problem, if so how did you overcome it?

2) Is it worth getting it repaired?

3) How much is the deck worth if it was fully functional?

Any help appreciated,

Thanks,

Ed

Bought it right here!

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23508



"This versatile unit is also the only DV machine to feature both component inputs/outputs and an RS-422 interface. Additional systems flexibility is assured by Y/C component connectors, JVC 12-pin control connectors, and an optionally available RS-232C interface, allowing you to use the BR-DV600U with just about any existing linear editing system - whether it's analog or digital. "

-http://www.dvecompany.com/brdv600.htm

I use the TRV-19 as a deck and it works just fine.

(it has a surprising amount of little holes in it to stick cables..)

Firewire doesn't necessarly go both ways. The big sony cams only go out for example. (not that too many people want to use them as decks anyway..)

I bought two JVC mini-dv/SVHS decks and both of them had major sound problems within 30 days. I bought them refurbished, so I probably got what I deserved.

I now use a JVC GR500U (cam) for a deck and it works great. I can also export from the computer, through the cam to my SVHS VCR with no problem (or to a monitor).

I paid about $300 for the cam new and have used it on a couple of trips when I didn't want to take the "good camera"!

These negative expieriences with the JVC MiniDV/SVHS have got me spooked. I was planning on buying one very soon, and at $800+ for a new one (plus decent respect for the JVC brand) I was thinking it would be a solid performer. Can anyone with this deck offer up some positive support?

camera as a deck has another advantage... portability. no plug in needed... can edit in the car if I have the juice for the pbook...

I don't need that kind of portability, and I do need a clean (ie non-cluttered) work area. I have a home office and two young kids that are always trying to climb/grab everything. I want to install this deck in a shelving unit and have it securely stowed away. Somebody use this deck with positive report?

i have a gv-d900, which i believe is the ntsc version of what you have, except with an lcd screen.

it constantly beeps and flashes a yellow warning code... i have to shut off the power for awhile, often multiple times, to get it to work... i guess that you can't tell what error code you are getting without an lcd monitor? how about deciphering the beep code?

these lousy decks never shut off fully even with the power switch on the deck is turned off... the power supply stays warm all the time, so a real reboot involves unplugging the power line from the wall.

i have had to take the cover off of this deck several times and clean it with that radio shack head cleaning kit... it used to junk up on a regular basis, despite fairly low hours... not something i'd recommend if you don't know what you are doing, and the alcohol cleaner will dry out the rubber pinch roller.

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your reply.

I can hook it up to a TV but I get no error codes what so ever!!! It just shuts itself off.

To get an estimate done for the repair is going to cost me about £50 which is quite a lot of money, especially if I decide not to go a head with it.

I have not tried a head cleaner in it yet, and I don't really fancy opening the thing up.

Thanks for the tips,

Ed

<<<-- Originally posted by James Sudik : These negative expieriences with the JVC MiniDV/SVHS have got me spooked. I was planning on buying one very soon, and at $800+ for a new one (plus decent respect for the JVC brand) I was thinking it would be a solid performer. Can anyone with this deck offer up some positive support? -->>>



I too would like to hear any pro's or con's of the JVC MiniDV/SVHS unit. I was looking at one that B&H often has on sale at just under $700.00. But if this type of unit has problems I don't want to waste my hard earned money on it.

Anyone?

Hi Jason,

I use a JVC GRD70 as my capture, analog-digital and digital-analog pass-through device. The only difference between the GRD70 and the GRD30 is the digital still camera function, which is close to useless. I should have bought the GRD30 instead.

The only disadvantages of using a cheap camcorder as a deck is batch captures and cueing (interrelated I guess) supposedly take more time, because the tape transports neither as robust nor as fast (again, interrelated).

It's good to save more than $1000 once in a while, and I'm not working with non-vanilla DV anyhow. If I needed other formats then I'd go for a dedicated deck. But this works great and does exactly what I need.

I'm using the JVC to save wear on my XL1s.

My setup is: Mac G5 to JVC GRD70 via FireWire, A/V cable from camcorder to VCR for R/L sound, S-video cable from camcorder to VCR, and S-video + R/L audio cables to TV.

When capturing analog I just switch the cables from "in" on the VCR to "out."

Ok I have read in different places about using a lower model MiniDV camera as a deck... I have an XL1 and I was thinking about using my old JVC DVL120U as a deck... does this retain the quality of the XL1? I am thinking it lowers the quality to whatever it puts out, or is it just playing what is exactly fed off of the tape?

Thanks in advance...

-Scott

Any DV camera actually processes the same quality images, if you use the camera to output via Firewire to a computer or to a DVD writer, the camera where you are playing back makes no difference. Now if you are using the camera's analog audio and video outputs that's a whole different story. Some cameras may have better DA and output levels, some pro equipment might even have component output and that's great for feeding a projector, a high end monitor. However any camera with S-video out should give you a decent image indisinguishable from your main camera. If your JVC cam can read the tapes and has an S-video output you will do just fine with it.

Hey Scott. Data is data, there is no loss or change due to the cam you use as the mechanism to transfer it to the HD. (I assume your are connecting via iEEE1394) I'm not a pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night ;)

I use a ZR40 for a deck.

About the only thing that camera is good for. If you're not shooting on the surface of the sun it's going to be grainy.

Yeah It's going to be done throught Firewire... thanks all. That's good news...

I use this deck at work and haven't had any problems with it - I use it to go through 2-4 hours of tape a day. Video comes out good, audio is fine, and the DV to SVHS dubbing is a nice little feature.

I use this deck (JVC SR-VS 30U) mini DV and SHVS and really like it. In addition to the dubbing features, you can import vhs/svhs into your NLE through it without a seperate BOB. By using the s-video inputs (both front and rear) you can also import 8mm and Hi-8 from cameras to DV and/or directly to the NLE.

One thing I'd like to mention, though... The menu options are complex and seem to have a logic that doesn't work with my rather arcane brand of logic!

Also, I do wish it had audio meters and headphone jacks.

Good luck

I have read few threads on the subject, and looked at the pros and cons of having a miniDV deck vs miniDV cam. At this moment my budget does not allow me to consider a miniDV deck. Having said that, I would like to know which camcorder you consider to be the best to use as a deck based on inexpensive price/quality?

These are the few cams mentioned in the threads:

Sharp VL-NZ55U
JVC GR-DVL100U
Panasonic PVDV100
Sony TRV8

Another important feature to have is firewire pass through (Computer NLE -> Firewire -> Cam -> A/V ouputs -> TV Monitor)..and as a bonus, it'd be nice to use it as a back up cam. Are the camcorders above meet these requirements?

Thanks for your comments.

Juan

Buy any miniDV cam with the best warranty. Consider extending the warranty also, if you intend to be putting on the head hours.

I plan on getting a tape deck to transfer my GL2 footage to the Computer throught Premiere Pro. I am wondering what would be a good reliable deck?