Hi adam,

Do you have a budget in mind?

It really depends on how much money you are willing to spend. If you only want a sub $1000 deck then I would look at getting a cheap MiniDV camera. If you are looking at spending more, then Sony and JVC do some nice professional models.

This sort of topic has come up many times, please try our search.

Recently I shot a project on the XL-1s and turned the footage over to the editor. He called back and said he was seeing noise on my tapes. So, I took the XL-1s down to his studio and everything played fine. No noise, no dropout. He was able to capture and edit fine after I brought my camera to him. I have also had this issue with two other studios since then. Footage shot on the XL-1s shows noise and dropout when played back on a DVCam or MiniDV deck. What could be the issue here?

Sounds like a head alignment issue - your camera will play tapes it recorded, but other decks will not. Try viewing a tape recorded by another camera in your XL-1s - bet it doesn't play properly.

I took your suggestion and tried playing some footage I shot with an old consumer end JVC, but I didn't see any problems. No dropout or noise. Could there be some sort of compatibility issue with the XL-1s and other decks?

I just tried to play back some tapes shot at a wedding with my XL-1s on my consumer end JVC camcorder and it played fine. However, I tried playing some tapes shot for my short film and I had good picture but no audio. Now, the wedding footage was shot in normal movie mode, but the short film footage was shot in frame mode. Also, all the other tapes that editors had trouble playing were shot in frame mode. Do you think that could be part of the problem?

Ok, I looked at the XL-1s manual and at the bottom of page 44 it says "Frame video may not appear completely smooth during normal playback." Could this be why my tapes are filled with noise and dropout on other decks? Could someone educate me on this frame mode playback issue? Has anyone else ever experienced this?

i read many threads about dv deck vs cheap dv cam; and i've been considering about buying a deck for a long time now. originally the plan was to go for a cheap dv cam; however recently i heard from some guy at the canon service center saying that dv cams are not made for heavy duty capturing purposes. he then explained, "the tear and wear on the drum assembly will increase greatly if the cam is used for back n' forth, back n' forth seeking capturing. depends on usage, camera could break in a short while or could last for years. Deck, on the other side, is designed for capturing..."
well, just out of curiosity, how many folks actually break the camera by capturing?
over the past two years i've piled up more than 20 tapes of footages that need to be captured within the following two - three weeks. i really need something reliable, sturdy, compatible with both pc and mac.
i almost went out and bought the sony mini dv walkman, but then i read people also recommend AG-DV1000 by panasonic.
if i have the budget for GV-D1000 by sony, what are my other options?
and how do these options compare?

thanks people!

What's the cheapest Sony MiniDv camera with DV in and out to use as a deck and as an all purpose vacation/whatever camera?
Also I would want it to be brand new if the price is good.
Any suggestions/links appreciated.

this is the cheapest new model...

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=0FTyiwBvgTfy50FIQ174gE9_5f2T8VuKhUE=?ProductSKU=DCRHC20&Dept=dcc_DICamcorders&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_MiniDVHandycamCamcorders

...but for your uses, you may be better suited searching online for an older model, or one from a different brand. You could probably find something with more features for a lower price. I think Panasonic has stripped down MiniDV model for something like $285.

I reciently purchased an XL1S from this site and like everybody else try not to use the camera as a playback deck. I just bought an inexpensive (brand new) dv camcorder to use as a playback deck and the picture looks good but the audio seems to skip and blank out as its being played. Does anyone know if this is fixable? or do I need to purchase a different camera or brand?

Thanks to all for your help

Start by cleaning the heads on the XL1 and the new camera too.

Hi,

here is a Question, since the XL2 records 16x9 (native)
with some more resolution right. If I use a Sony GVD-1000
to capture the Footage.

Will that affect the images or so?
The same with recording footage in 24p/25p will there also be
a Issue?

Cause I might be buying an Xl2 (if the PAL version will hit US streets)
I would like to use a miniDV deck (stationary) to capture my Footage.

Thanks advance?

P.S. any body seen XL2 footage compared to the Sony's HDV?

You can use any DV deck to play back XL2 footage. The choice of deck will have no effect on resolution, etc.

This is my first question to the forum. I've been involved in the film and tv industry for about 15 years, made a short drama and a doc for television, now I'm considering buying a Canon xl2.

Does anyone know if there are any quality issues with using a Canon ZR80 camera as a capture deck for footage shot (at any framerate) with the xl2? I've heard there will be quality loss??

BTW, capturing to Premiere 6.5 on a PC through Firewire.

If there are issues and I end up using the xl2 as the capture deck, how hard is this on the camera? Are there other solutions?

Thanks!

The best solution (though the costliest) is to purchase a mini DV deck. Decks are much more robust, generally treat the tapes better, and will last the longest and require the least service. The camera would be my second choice unless you have many hundreds of hours of footage to log and capture. Using a cheap camera as a capture device is somewhat more problematic. I've heard of capture issues, mostly related to dropped frames, with cheap mini Dv cameras. Cameras are very slow to go to in and out points and place more stress on the tapes.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : The best solution (though the costliest) is to purchase a mini DV deck. Decks are much more robust, generally treat the tapes better, and will last the longest and require the least service. The camera would be my second choice unless you have many hundreds of hours of footage to log and capture. Using a cheap camera as a capture device is somewhat more problematic. I've heard of capture issues, mostly related to dropped frames, with cheap mini Dv cameras. Cameras are very slow to go to in and out points and place more stress on the tapes. -->>>

While I agree with most of what you said I use a Panasonic PV-DV910 Palmcorder to capture my footage. I never do jog shuttle and scene searches though...I always just capture the entire tape. I do my rewinding and fast fowrarding in a dedicated rewinder unit.

When I had my DVX100 I would use it quite often as a deck to review or capture tapes. When I went to sell it on EBAY I got a ton of email asking about how many hours were on the heads.

Well I know I only shot 30-40 1 hours tapes on it but the head time showed 160+ hours. This turned some people off from buying it.

Now I don't know if the XL2 keeps track of the head time but I am now inclined "not" to use it for a deck unless it is absolutely unavoidable.

XL2 does not have a user addressable hours counter. Canon service may be able to access the hours, but they do not disclose that information. I worry more about my tapes and the images and sounds they represent, than cameras. Cameras are tools, they are going to depreciate, break and at some point most end up in a landfill. What is important is the images and sounds they record. I do everything possible to protect the tape and insure the best possible image is used in the edit.

I have a cheap JVC camcorder that I use as a deck. But I use Screenalyzer to dump the whole tape in one go. I have a 250 Gig drive especially for that. So my tapes will get recorded on once, and played back once - well maybe twice.

The JVC gets a cleaning tape every ten tapes, and so far I've had no problems at all. This saves my Canon for wear and tear, and the quality is of course perfect.

Since I can get 3 cheap camcorders for the price of one deck I find this the the most cost effective solution. Especially taken the cost per megabyte of a big firewire drive. And I find it a lot easier to preview the clips, when they are on a harddisk, than have a deck to wind/rewind to compare two clips.

Thanks very much for the quick feedback folks.

Since I can't really afford a dv deck, I will try the ZR80 and let eveyone know how it goes.

Ken

Me personally, I am using my gl1 as a playback deck
as Its still under a service plan Im not really worried about wearing out the heads as it can be repaired or replaced as needed by the plan. So far no problems with dropped frames or broken tapes.
evem adding another 5 years to the service plan it seems cheaper then buying a deck

I've been using a cheap Sony TRV-33 to capture my DV and DVCAM recordings from my PD-170 and VX2100's. From time to time I get a dropout or two. I've heard a possible cause is capturing it in a camera that didn't originally record it- the reason being a possible tracking error beings the tape transport varies from camera to camera.

I've heard DV Decks (like the DSR-11 for example) are less prone to this and are quite lenient in regards to tape tracking, etc. The DSR-11, however, is quite an investment at $1,600.

What are the benefits of using a DV Deck over my current set-up of using a cheap DV camera to "act" as a deck. How rugged really are the heads and the tape transport on a DV Deck compared to a DV Camera? ...Is it worth the investment?

if your concern is drop out, the best would be to suppress the root cause (tape).
for 800$ you can get a box that record DV to harddisk.
no tape problem and no tape to disk transfer (while you can still record on tape just in case).
That is what i have done , not because drop problems, but because a sell my old vx9000 (big DV tape, up to 4 hours of recording) and i need something to record at least 2 hours non-stop with my vx2000.

If you have some money, a DV Deck is an excellent investment. The heads in a camera are not designed to be used for extensive playback. A deck IS designed for that, so yes, the heads and transport are much more rugged than those on a camera.

For what it's worth, I know a guy who went on a Log-and-Capture binge with about 40 tapes from a doc shoot using not but a cheap Canon. Around tape #30, smoke began to come out of the camera.

Hi,
I do regulary edit our church's sermon and chorus with 2 XM2's(equivalent to GL2).
I am looking for a mini-DV deck for this purpose with Premiere Pro1.5 which is very very easy to use.
Any suggestions?
Or I do not need it? - I am worrying about shortening the camera's head life as well as tape mechanism.

Thanks in Advance!

Paul Juhn

Well, you'll find DV decks are pretty expensive. If you can pay off DV deck with your work - go for it. In other case cheap DV camera will be very good for transfer to computer. I am using that solution without any problems. It's still cheaper than new heads on my XM2.

http://www.streetprices.com/Electronics/Consumer/VCR/Multi_System/SP828882.html

XM2? Assuming that you are in the UK? Check this out this I think is the 3rd gen of this deck. JVC make this deck is really good, I have used the last 2 generations. They where good. Preview and download from DV and output to SVHS or VHS. Its prefect and its much cheaper than any offering from the other companies.

Actually I am in Australia...
As darko suggested, cheap MiniDv camera can be a solution but would there be a video quality loss or not?
Since it is all digital, there should not be any quality loss... I maybe wrong..
Thanks anyway... good advice !

Paul J.

hmmm... cameras are ok to use, but from my expereince with people doin ghtis, usually the heads die out pretty quickly when compared to a dedicated unit.

The sony GD-V1000 is a nice lil unit with a 4' LCD screen which also doubles as a small reference monitor. Its a portable device and does what it says it does quite well. You'll notice that the heads on these units are a lil more robust than a cheap handycam..

at the moment the price of these re about $2700 AUD (im a supplier and thats a discounted rate.. ) they usually go for $3100 AUD RRP as its a consumer unit...

heres a link to some info from a NZ site
http://www.dvt.co.nz/index.php/ps_pagename/productdetail/pi_productid/464

What's lil? Please educate me...

What about JVC SR-VS30E - the quoted price is Au$2134.00

I do not need VHS conversion though.

Is Sony GD-V1000 is robust? I mean the tape mechanism and head?
Can I buy it from you?

Thanks!

Paul

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Juhn : What's lil? Please educate me... -->>>

I think he means "little"

There is no loss of quality when transferring from "el cheapo" at all. I also transferred some DVCAM recordings from Sony DSR370 without any problem or degradation in quality. It's either 0 or 1 and that's nice thing about digital video :-)

Do you use Premiere pro 1.5? I do.
I usually capture whole tape to computer and make many short clips.
In this way, I do not use much Camera while editing except exporting the final product to tape.
Is this the righjt way to do it?

What's the benefit having a deck other than saving Camera head?

Depending on the deck and in addition to more robust heads, there is a stronger faster transport mechanism, more accurate for digital cuts, time code controll, dv/analog transcoding/pal/secam conversion, capacity for larger tapes (The DSR 11 for instance allows you to use the larger DVCAM tapes and format.... and other goodies.

the dsr 11 is a nice lil (oops little) unit i have to agree.. i jsut feel that the decks themselves are overpriced..

Paul, send me an email with ur fone number and ill give u call when i get it..

i mwaiting on sony to deliver the bugger, theyre being very slack with their gear lately and im not happy..

i have a sony gv-d900, and based on my experiences, i would not recommend it to anybody... it's a pile of junk.

the buttons don't work like they should most of the time, and the tape often has to be re-inserted multiple times because of some bastard error message... sometimes i'll end up having to literally unplug the power supply from the wall before the deck will accept a tape.

and you can't fully turn off the power to the deck... if it's plugged in to the power supply, it's live, even with the power switch turned off, hence the need to unplug the power supply to get a cold boot of the deck.

it has also required multiple head cleanings, despite having less hours on it than my xl-1s does... fortunately i'm a tech, so i know how to clean vcr heads.

you can buy several el cheapo dv cameras for the cost of this deck, and if you get an extended warranty, you'll be able to get 'em repaired for nothing.

I was considering having this unit but your confession told me not to....

Thanks!

The Panasonic decks look great on paper compared to the Sony DSR11.
lower price
adds 7.5IRE setup
headphone jack
audio meters (nice to have for dubbing tapes)
reads and records DVCPRO, reads DVCAM (doesn't write DVCAM unfortunately)

I can't say I have experience with this deck but it seems like a better choice than the DSR11. I have used a JVC SVHS/mini-DV (the cheapest real deck on the market) but I would avoid them.

If you don't really need a full blown deck, I'd probably try to pick up a used/cheap camcorder. Ebay and camera stores would be places to try if you are comfortable with that (be careful on eBay). If you manage to wear out the heads on a cheap camcorder then you know you may need a deck.

i use an old camcorder but ideally i woudl like a deck with a screen to use to show edits to clients without having the need to author a dvd.
Unfortunetaly budget is whats holding me back and i really dont need it when the MX500 im using has a 3 and half inch screen, while teh GDV1000 has a 4' screen, which really isnt all that much of a difference.. and ive got a camera to boot... ;)

Workflow question--can I use my sony TRV30 as a deck--so I don't have to use the FX1 for this purpose? I'd use the TRV30 to capture, rewind, fast forward and print to tape--

Is the TRV30 mpeg2-ts (HDV) compatible? Rewinding and fastforwarding is fine, but you won't be able to play or record HDV footage on a non-HDV device.

heath

I'm not sure I understand--I would want to shoot with the FX1--then take the miniDV tape out of the camera and put it into my regular miniDV (standard def), and then firewire xfer into my pc. After editing in an HDV compatible NLE, output then to another miniDV tape to my standard def miniDV camera. Then, take the miniDV tape out of the my camera and put into the FX1 for playback on a hi-def monitor/tv.

Basically--is there any way around using the FX1 camera as a deck--so I don't have to use the heads too much?

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Is the TRV30 mpeg2-ts (HDV) compatible? Rewinding and fastforwarding is fine, but you won't be able to play or record HDV footage on a non-HDV device.

heath -->>>

You can't do that with a mini-dv camera. It will play green or red video with no audio, because it can't decode the HDV signal. On the JVC HD10, you can flip the iLink (FireWire) output between DV and mpeg2-TS (HDV).

Therefore, you need to use the FX1 to transfer HDV from tape to PC. You'll also need special software to capture the HDV software, such as Aspect HD (www.cineform.com).

So, you need special HDV software and your HDV camera to get your HDV footage into your computer.

Hope this helps,

heath

Right -- just because the tape is the same, doesn't mean that the data's the same.

If you want to shoot standard-def miniDV on your FX1, then you could do what you describe.

But if you want to shoot in HDV mode, you must have an HDV device (deck or camera) to play the footage back. A miniDV camera will choke on an HDV tape, unable to play anything back.

I thought that might be the case--just wanted to verify it. You'd think a "consumer" level deck would sell well--but I haven't come across any, even for SD miniDV (at least inexpensive ones). Perhaps I'm over-reacting to those who say that using your camera as a deck can cut the camera's life in half--

Thanks for the quick responses--

If you shoot in HDV or SD, you will NOT be able to play it, only DV.

heath

Should I be using a deck (aren't they expensive?) or just a cheap miniDV camera for loading my footage into my computer? Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001B86G8/ref%3Dnosim/slickdeals/104-0636460-2706315 or should I buy a Canon brand. I'd also use it as a secondary camera. Is there a Canon one that is good and cheap?

Unless you plan to rewind, fast forward and play a tape repeatedly or you shoot a ton of video, I'd be very surprised if you'd ever be able to detect any increased wear on your camcorder. I would venture a guess that you'll outgrow the cam and upgrade for new technology or features long before you wear out the tape transport.

Good luck.

Dennis Vogel

Thanks for the reply. You're probably right with all the technology coming down the pipe.

I too have been considering Sony's Mini-DV Walkman as a deck. Particularly the GV-D300. I got some questions though.
I am currently using a Canon XL1s and will be getting the XL2 in a couple days. I have a Mac G5, 2.5 ghz with Final Cut Pro HD and I also have a PC with Premiere 6.5. I don't use Premiere much for editing but I like to have it available just in case. Right now I use exclusively Mini-DV.

These are the things I would like to do:

- Create Window burn VHS tapes from the deck to my VCR with the timecode and tape information displayed on the VHS.

- Stripe/black tapes

- Capture footage from the deck to both of my editing systems, not at the same time of course.

- Make tape dubs with my camera and the deck...hopefully I can do that and make the timecodes excately the same.

- Record onto the mini-dv format from an outside source, like VCR, cable signal, computer monitor output. (I have the necessary equipment to do that I just want to make sure the DV deck can receive an input signal and record it.)

Do any of y'all know if it is possible to do this with the Sony GV-D300 deck? Or could you recommend a comparable deck that can handle all these tasks? My budget is around $800. Of course, the less I spend the better.

Thanks!

the GVD is good, and if you want to travel with it, it is great. If you don't need a portable deck, you can get another deck that is less expensive. I sold my GVD and got a JVC-SR-VS30. It is a combination MiniDV and SVHS deck for about $600. Look around for prices on the internet.