When you render to a new track, and use that avi, instead of the original material, does it lose quality when the whole project is rendered out?

No

See I really should do more research before I start blurting out questions- thanks again Edward! Going to check it out today as soon as I get off from work. TGIF!

As long as the rendering was done at full quality right? You don't want to use a medium quality render as your source.

Thanks guys. I didn't think so but wanted to be sure.

I believe I did that but I will make sure. Thank you.

Do you have a link? Because there is one manufacturer that
I seem to run into a lot that makes all kind of NLE keyboards,
EXCEPT for Vegas...

http://www.bella-usa.com/Products-DVkeyboard-details.htm

It appears you buy the keyboard and a set of stickers.

So if Divx is so good, should I be using this codec instead of the Mainconcept one that comes with Vegas?

DiVX is a computer-only codec. It's not going to do you any good for DVD encoding, the main point of the Main Concept codec.

If you want to distribute web or CD movies for watching on computer, DiVX is a contender right along with Quicktime and Windows Media.

This company has Vegas keyboards with laser etched icons:

http://www.worldtechdevices.com/

I've noticed some commercial standalone DVD players (Circuit City, Good Guys, etc.) advertising DiVX (MPEG4) playback.

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers lists 45 players with
this support. This doesn't confirm an emerging trend until
the major players include the feature in all models in their product line . Phillips, Pioneer, Sony, Toshiba and
and other major players have one entry on the list.

YES vegas see's frame mode ( captured thru V ) as progressive.

if your clip was shot frame mode V can edit it as progressive or as interlaced project because a progressive frame is made up of 2 fields just like interlace therefore it will always remain 2 fields in progressive or interlace.

where you will see the difference is in effects , moving titles .. if you set project up as progressive then effects will be progressive ( both fields in frame will be same = 30 motions per second) .. if you set project as interlace then ( NONE on deinterlace method) moving titles will be smoother ( 2 fields are NOT same = 60 motions per second) , transitions smoother etc.. but the clips frame (2 fields) will be same ..

to test for yourself - set project up as lower field order 1st ( interlace) , and drop a frame mode clip in TL ..now render the clip out as interlace ( deinterlace NONE) ... now compare orginal frame mode ( which Vegas see's as progressive) to the rendered interlace clip ( which Vegas see's as interlace) ..notice they are exactly the same...

now if you set your project up as progressive and you have some interlace video then this is where the deinterlace method you choose will come into play on the interlace clips. .. if you choose NONE then it will leave the clips as interlace. i prefer BLEND when mixing interlace with frame mode ..

i shoot only frame mode & progressive but i prefer the smoother transitions, titles, fx's so i set 90% of my projects up as interlace.

I need to output my VEGAS DV edit work as a JPEG sequence, which is announced in the product brochure but does not even appear in the HELP file.

How can I accomplish that?


Emilio

Let me get this straight-you edited something in Vegas---now you want to output it as a JPEG sequence file--What are you trying to accomplish--an animation? If that be the case then the instructions are within the Vegas 4.0 help file. Here it is:

From the File menu, choose Import Media. The Import Media dialog box is displayed.

Choose the folder where the file you want to open is stored:

Choose a drive and folder from the Look in drop-down list.

—or—

Choose a folder from the Recent drop-down list to quickly select a folder from which you have previously opened files.

Select a file in the browse window or type a name in the File name box. Detailed information about the selected file appears at the bottom of the dialog box.

To limit the files displayed in the dialog, choose a file type from the Files of Type drop-down list or enter *. and an extension in the File name box. For example, enter *.wav to display all wave files in the current folder, or enter *guitar*.wav to display all wave files that have the word guitar in the file name.

If you select an image from a still-image sequence, you can select the Open still-image sequence check box to import all images in the sequence as a single entry in the Media Pool. In the Range box, enter the number of the last image you want to open. For example, if you'd selected AnimationOne_00001.tga in step 3, you could enter 120 in this box to create a new Media Pool entry using AnimationOne_00001.tga to AnimationOne_00120.tga.

Click Open.

Vegas adds the file to the Media Pool.




IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE IN MIND PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC IN YOUR DESCRIPTION.

divX is the best computer codec. It may not suit your needs if you need compatibility with viewers.

check in on the Vegas board .. there was a SCRIPT available that renders out png sequence and i believe it has been modified to output jpeg too ... they can tell you where to get it .. it might be on the CD or if you downloaded yours it might be on sonys V4 download page under SCRIPTS. also there are many scripts at sundance media ..

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/home1.htm

click on "To reach the digital media tutorials, click here"

then under catagory choose "automated scripts "
then look for "render image sequence"

you need to have .NET loaded on your computer. use windows update to get the newest .NET

Learing the process of DVD authoring I have stumbled across menu creation.
I grab a frame for processing in stills imaging software (Photoshop or Ulead PhotoImpact 8) (to serve as background for main menu, paste it there and besides of deinterlacing I have to adjust a resolution prior to adding additional elements on top of this frame image.

As for PAL I read I'll have to change to 768x576 (from originaly grabbed 720x576)
in order the added graphic elements to have correct proprotions once improting the image back into authoring software.
(as I understood to compensate for non-square pixels of TV -> to square shaped pixels of PC monitor)
However I work in NTSC originally grabbing 720x480, so how shall I later the resolution prior to working with image ?

I'm guessing, since 768x576 equals to 4:3 proprotion for square pixels with preserving original vertical resolution, trying to do that for pal yields 640x480, but than improting it back to, say video editor (Vegas) I get black bars to the picture sides in preview window.

Also, if no any further graphic processing on frame grab is necessary
(aside of deinterlacing), should I also convert it proprotions in Photoshop in order to be properly rendered in authroign software once importet back to such ?

regards, Alex

for vegas NTSC make your stills 654x480 ( some say 655x480 )

Thanks a lot, Don, that helps. The image improted back as .bmp onto time line fills the preview window precisely once 655x480.
But what is the exact consideration ?
655x480 is not exactly 4:3 for PC monitor interpretation.

regards, Alex

The aspect ratio is .9091 for NTSC.

720 * .9091 = 654.552 (or rounded = 655)

Oh, great Edward, thanks, tha clarifies the issue.

Thanks, Don.

I think Vegas could be more specific when they say that they "support JPEG output" There's a tiny asterisk, and a tiny lettering below in their site that tells "Using Vegas scripts".

Being the case, they should make available that specific script. I don't want to learn JAVA right now for a simple export.

On the other side, the use of scripts seems very powerful. I guess I'll have no further problems.


David: thanks for your intention of helping me. Sorry if my question is unclear.

As you guessed it, I want to output my entire Vegas edition to a JPEG sequence. That's because I know a bureau that will put these images into 35mm film and we gonna make a test.

I didn't understand your instructions, in which you tell me it's possible to do so by using the "Import Media".

one thing to note, to give the crossblur more of a morph feel, drop down the fade ranges a little bit...

youll see what i'm taking about when you are in front of your pc

Direct from Sony's site (on the same page as the Vegas updates):

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/download/step2.asp?DID=447

Click on Vegas Sample Scripts. Inside that ZIP file is a script called RenderImageSequence.js

Several other scripts to perform this function (or similar functions) are also available at Sundance.

Well if anyone get's a chance to use one, let me know. I'm on the look out for something like this or a Contour shuttle device.

Cheers
Aaron

Best is a relative term in my opinion. WM9 is very good on the PC
as well.

As said, DiVX is something completely different then the MPEG1/2
Mainconcept encoder that comes with Vegas.

If you want to go to VCD/SVCD or DVD you can only do it in MPEG1
(VCD) or MPEG2 (VCD/DVD). Then DiVX is basically not an option.
Yes, there are DVD players out that support DiVX (not ALL forms!!),
but a majority don't, yet.

If you only want to play your movies on a computer then you
have more options including DiVX, WMP, QuickTime and Real
besides mpeg.

While Divx is a mature, solid video codec, with maturity comes commercialization. Since Divx went closed source, now just acquiring the free playback codec demands installing spyware/adware from Gator on your system.

A more enticing alternative in the near future may be Xvid, a spin-off from the open source version of Divx, that promises to remain true to the project's free software roots.

One thing to keep in mind:

DivX is NOT officially supported by Vegas!

Keep in mind that jpeg is lossy. So if you are going to use the
image sequence in another program you are introducing more
(compression) noise. Perhaps the script can be modified to output
another format like BMP which is lossless?

If you have Quicktime Pro you could easily convert a movie into an image sequence.

Better idea: Get "Rad Video Tools" by Bink and Smacker (free I believe) and use it to convert a file. hit the convert a file button and in the top change the output type to BMP or something like it (PNG, TIFF, GIF, etc. are lossless).

Thanks everybody.


Well, JPEG is lossy but as a final step and at high quality compression it can deliver better quality than some motion codecs. Of course I could use TGA or TIFF formats which are lossless, but they're as heavy as uncompressed AVI to deliver final material to the lab.

Anyway, I am dissapointed by the lack of this simple feature in Vegas. The script takes 4 to 6 seconds to export a single frame, so they shouldn't announce this ''plus" as another included feature (JPEG SEQUENCE OUTPUT*)

I still love Vegas. It's so refreshing to work with it, after many years of Premiere 'hard' workflow. It's just I think they should keep scripts for more complex tasks.
Premiere doesn't export to JPEG sequences, too. But they don't announce it.

Just refined the info on these numbers.
The pixel dimention relations are indeed as you stated affecting the appearance if not handled properly.
Generating image to be 655x480 indeed fills in entire preview window of Vegas, just like regular NTSC frame, but on other site I read different things as for DVD authoring:
http://www.crazypants.com/tips/tiptwo.htm

Shoudl I follow this recommendations ? Perhaps achieving the still image (once put on Vegas timeline) to fill precisely the preview dodn't mean to use this approach for image intedned for DVD authoring (creating menu's background for
instance) ? Are we talking about different things ? Image resampled to 720x540 will still have black bars in Vegas preveiw window.

Regards, Alex

i would follow the one that fills the screen ( no bars on sides).

i don't know about DVD A ...
but taking a quick look at DSE's Vegas 4 editing workshop ( excellent book ) chapter 11 DVD Architect ..page 342 ...
says if using a photo editor make background stills 655x480 for NTSC and 704x576 for PAL ... at dpi not higher then 150

OK, does they say to resample the final (edited) image back to 720x480 (the objects and graphic will look squeezed) and save such in order to insert it into DVD authoring so that on TV it will be stretched back and look normal ?

Perhaps there is a difference between preparing the image for inserting into NLE and for DVD authroing ?

The choices from Vegas are JPG and PNG. PNG is also a lossless format. I believe most scripts use PNG by default.

If you need some other format, download the frameserver from Satish (www.debugmode.com) and send it to Virtualdub (or some other program) that can output into the desired format.

I have saved images from Vegas (automatically made 655x480) and then imported them onto a DVDA menu. It looked just fine and filled the entire screen.

I.e. Vegas does automatically compensate for pixel's aspect ratio to show the frame image correctly on PC monitor, right ? (even though it notes video size if 720x480 in preview window info)

Alex

Thinking again about what is happening, I recall transferring a frame from Vegas to PS7 notcing it has been improted with 655x480 resolution as you correctly stated.

However, then I made a switch to Ulead PhotoImpact as a graphic editor to import it into for simple video menu creation (just a bit easier to use of a simple operations like lines/boxes and similar shapes drawing required), and then it accepts the images as 720x480 ! Cannot explain it.

I'll check that issue today evening at home.

Regards, Alex

I'm hesitant to purchase something no one else is using. I'll keep an eye on the forum and wait until someone gives it a try and reports on it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I edited a short within two seperate projects and now don't want to print out the spreadsheet with the editing information nor do I want to render out the project and import it back into this other one. All I would like is another work around script/plug-in for Vegas that gives us the option for nested compositions.

Rob

I would render each section separately and then build a "final" project with those two sections. However, since you apparently don't want to do that, I can think of a couple of options:

1) Open both projects and copy/paste EVERYTHING from one project to the other project. (Note: some changes may be required)

2) Frameserve one section to the other project using the plugin from Satish.

Glen:

You still have the DSE DVD set for sale?

Will

Yes email me at xrandomsnapsx@yahoo.com (remove the x's)

Just recieved the new "Sony" catalog in the mail this weekend. Noticed it actually included an advertisement for Edward's Tsunami. Congrats Edward- Sony has even given your product recognition!

Thanks Edward. The reason for not rendering out the whole project is due to my machines age and the fact that I don't want to deal with rendering until the very end when it is needed. I will check out the plug-in and try to copy/paste everything from the other project when I get off of work today.

Rob

PS- do you happen to have a website with the plug-in I cannot find one.
PPS- I found it I think www.debugmode.com under the pluginpac.

Yes, you found the right place. Debugmode with the plug-n-pac.

would there be a way to create a 3d kind of rotational view of the same event from two cam angles? the closest thing i can think of is kind of similar to that effect they had in the first matrix movie where it kind of paused and rotated around the guy while he was jumping or what not. I have some video already shot from a football game where we had one cam up on the press deck and the other on the field and i wanted to transition with something nifty during a catch from the two angles...

possibly with vegas or would i need something like AE?

Hi Trey,

The short answer to your query is that "bullet time" (made famous in The Matrix and GAP ads by Buf Compagnie (http://www.buf.fr/)) is a fairly sophisticated effect that requires photogrammetry techniques perfected by Paul Debevec at Berkeley circa 1997. You won't be able to accomplish this in a simple editing or compositing package.

RealViZ makes a package called ImageModeler (http://www.realviz.com/products/im/index.php) which may aid you if you're serious about this--but this is a $750 package; it will take you possibly weeks to achieve the effect you're looking for; and you're likely to need photographs of your subject from more than just two angles. (There's also an outdated package from MetaCreations called Canoma that can perform many of the same functions for similar primitives. You can see an example of such a transition built in Canoma by clicking on the SF MOMA in the Quicktime at the bottom of this page by Greg Downing (http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html)--you may have to zoom in. In either case you will have to model all the architecture. Other features, like players and the airborne ball, will be flattened down onto the field until you model each of them in their entirety as well.)

I hope it doesn't appear that I'm dissuading you! But if you start to think you're in for more trouble than it's worth, there's always the good old dissolve or 3D block spin or page turn or venetian blind or clock wipe or...

hmmm...well it sounds like this wont werk for my particular application...perhaps if it was setup in advance something like that could be done with my 10D, but alas; the video has already been captured.