Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Didn't Canon announce the XLH1 in Sept 05 ???

just asking.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Yes, it was Sep. 2005 for the XL H1.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

If the XLH1 was announced in Sept 05 and shown at Paramount, to me it would not be much of a leap to assume (yes I used the "assume" word) that a format change is occurring and then not much of a leap to assume 4K. There is a lot of interesting reading about 4k, 8k and UHDTV. The phrase "digital film" has been thrown around a lot lately.

So what would a 4k camcorder have as a package ?
Any NLE's available to support it ?
Would it take an i11 computer to handle it ?
Will any of us be able to afford it, F3 price ?
10 bit ?? @ how many Mbps, will the gemini handle 4k ??
Available lenses ??

what do you think ??

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Interesting thoughts Don. I remember when the FX1 first came out and it was very hard for many consumers to edit HDV natively. It maybe the same process. The option will be there when people are ready but can still shoot in 1080P. Dylan also made an interesting point. He said no one thinks it's a 3D camera? I remember reading in the IBC presentation about Canon showing off their 3D solution but I didn't see a single post anywhere from the places I go for information. Quite possible that it was not presented. It was hinted to me there may not be ND-filters on this new s35 cam from someone who knows more about it. He says no need for me to sell my af100. Only time will tell.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Dear Don,

If, and when, a new camera comes on the market, we will do our best to ensure that our new Gemini 4:4:4 and/or nanoFlash will work with it, if at all possible.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Thanks Dan, I just didn't know how future proof the gemini was, I red 2k in the specs but didn't want to make claims that I wasn't sure about. Does this mean that the gemini has some built in flexibilities ?? I had posed that as a question, I edited it to make it more clear.


About the 4k, re-reading a 2010 Philip Bloom article is quite interesting.

Canon 4k concept camera and first images from Canon Expo in NY | Philip Bloom

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Dear Don,

I certainly cannot promise that the Gemini 4:4:4 will work with all cameras, including all future cameras, this is just not possible.

But I can state that we do have a lot of flexibility in the design of the Gemini 4:4:4 and we will try to accomodate new cameras, if possible and practical.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Add to that our own article right here on DV Info Net:

Canon Inc. shows UHD at Canon Expo at DVInfo.net

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Funny how Canon's concept camera has a top mounted LCD just like the Sony FS-100.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Just to reiterate something that I tried to make clear in that article, the lead engineer on that piece told me that the camera design as you see it in those pics "will never see the light of day," in other words, they wanted to show the imaging technology without tipping their hand as to what an actual Canon UHD camera would really look like. Thus, the "hair dryer" concept as a cloaking device for whatever design they're really working on.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

I would like Canon to deliver a Sony F3 'kissing couzin' with these additions.

1080P (and 2K) 4:4:4 @ 1-120fps OUTPUT
1080P 4:2:2 @1-300fps OUTPUT
4K RAW OUTPUT at up to 60 fps or compressed internal RAW recording
2 Thunderbolt ports
Super clean and quiet sensor
HIGH QUALITY 28-130mm motorized ZOOM LENS w/ SLOW crawl & NO hiccups + Pro wireless focus.
Price point $14K with ZOOM.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Cloaking device? Hair dryer?

Headline on rumor site: Canon to Introduce Handheld Cloaking Device that Dries Hair.

;)

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Shortly after that, Canon will issue a press release like Nikon's (http://www.nikon.com/news/2011/0909_01.htm)

"Canon understands that some article appeared in the media regarding Canon's cloaking hair product. Please note that Canon has made no announcement in this regards."

Share prices will jump and tinfoil hats everywhere will have an extra layer of aluminum applied.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Sony didn't believe you, Chris, and produced their own hair dryer....

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Folks, I hate to burst some bubbles, but Canon has never competed in the super high-end video/cinema market. Ever. I see no signs that they are changing anything.

Honestly, 4K downstream from the sensor is completely unrealistic. Canon lives and breathes in the "prosumer" market. That's 1080p and will continue to be 1080p for a good long time. Sure, Canon might use marketing mumbo jumbo and say "we've developed a brand new 4K sensor specifically designed for video applications", but they will definitely go the ARRI route and offer a 1080p file-based format.

On to something else (rhetorical, emotional and flamey)...

I don't know who said that Canon came inappropriately dressed to the party with the XLH1, but I find that somewhat offensive... I know it was difficult for the HVX fanboys to see anything beyond their own adulation for their 1/2 res sensor, but the XLH1 was a bad-ass little camera in all categories (yes, even including it's HDV implementation) and I don't think Canon conceded anything to Panasonic. Also it probably stung the JVC guys pretty badly after they dropped a load of cash on a 720p camera with interchangeable lenses only to have the XLH1 hand them their lunch.... all accomplished with a sensor that was superior in overall resolution, suffered from zero rolling shutter artifacts and did all of this with... a CCD! Doh! [/flamey emotional rant]

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Robert-
I wish you wouldn't sugar coat everything........

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Robert,

isn't it a bit unusual for Canon to make this much noise and go to paramount for an exisitng system with a few new twist ?? Yes I am hopeful and yes we have had our hopes up for over a year waiting on new cameras like it was Christmas, but, the release says;

The story begins ??

Historic Global announcement ??

Please save this date ??

We are all respectfully having fun and speculating, you say it is 1080p ?

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Canon and Hollywood are producing a joint venture Reality TV Show about film makers and cinematographers lusting after a replacement camera for the XLH1, which will never come.

Big plans and big anticipations, bring even bigger disappointments.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

You may be right, but remember, JVC's 4K2K (QuadHD) camera is prosumer, too. It's fairly obvious that it's only a matter of time -- and very little time -- until 4K will be practical at the prosumer level, with APS-C-size sensors. The CMOSIS/TowerJazz CMV12000 is a global-shutter, 4K sensor capable of 180 fps in 12-bit mode (300 fps in 10-bit mode). It's a year old already. It's intended applications include surveillance cameras, it's not all that expensive (I think in 2010 it was less than $500 in large quantities). Obviously, the price will only drop as CMOSIS improves the technology.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

And yet, that is exactly what they were showing last year at Canon Expo in New York... live 4K straight from the sensor (and displayed on Canon 2K and 4K monitors).

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

It will be interesting but I can not understand the whole 4k thing. Sure, bigger numbers are easy to market around but there just are not many uses for 4k footage outside of major theatrical release. Just seems like a huge waste of pixels and bandwidth now and for a while in the future.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Tim -- both England (BBC) and Japan (NHK) are testing 4K and 8K for broadcast.

They were doing this *last year* even. Over IP. The future is now, folks. See this link:

Super Hi-Vision advances over IP - main-content | TVBEurope Magazine Online & In Print

Also, just recently at IBC2011: 8K live over IP from London to Amsterdam.

http://www.3dfocus.co.uk/3d-news-2/s...-ibc-2011/5433

Think 2012 Olympics...

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Just came across this article titled "Possible Specs For New Canon Video Camera?" in which someone claims to have seen the specs of this new camera(s).

HD Magazine - HD Mag - Possible Specs For New Canon VideoCamera?

Jim Jannard and Co. over at Red have also just announced a major Nov. 3rd announcement regarding a "shipping Scarlet," which they've stated will go "head to head" with the new Canon.

Didn't know if any of this had already been mentioned.

Fun times ahead for all.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

The BBC R & D department are often well ahead in these things, but I wouldn't expect the BBC itself to be rushing into 4K or 8K any time soon. They're still in the middle of a switch over to HD and the BBC Licence fee has been frozen until 2016.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

November 3rd...

Surely is going to be an exiting day.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

I think 1080p will be just fine for most users out there - it'll do me anyway. What will be interesting to see is if they release 2 versions of the camera as has been predicted. 4K would be a good route for people planing theatrical releases and for people who are looking to 'future-proof' their footage (especially important for people shooting wildlife and stock footage for instance).

The XLH1 was and is a great camera, but I wish Canon would have supported it with more lenses (the 6x lens is great, but that was the only one released other than the stock). I see the XLH1 is still used a great deal by the wildlife documentary fraternity; other than the EX3 there are not too many other options to use big photographic lenses out there. Adding a nanoflash has kept my XLH1 up to date I feel; I recently sold some footage to an international news broadcaster, and that footage ran alongside footage from professional XDCAM HD cameras (they were happy to accept nanoflash mxf 4:2:2 @ 50mbs - I doubt they would have accepted HDV though).

The point is that if canon release a S35 camera with the mxf codec then I figure I would use this alongside the XLH1/nanoflash (as the XLH1 still does a fine job in run-and-gun situations) - so I wont be retiring it anytime soon.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

"exiting day"? Ominous ..... and stop calling me Shirley!

Grazie

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

OK. Two posts over at RedUser are fueling this:

They have just announced that Scarlet will be shipping before the end of the year. This is unexpected as I thought Scarlet was dead (they were going to release the Epic-S instead which would be a dumbed down version of Epic):
SCARLET........

Also Jannard announced that everything is going to change:
Everything changes......

So to save you the trouble the 2 threads can be condensed into these two points:

1) Scarlet is back.
2) This is a change brought about due to the competition.

What competition? Nothing new has been announced, and this certainly cant be a sudden change brought about by the AF100, FS100, F3 which have been around for a while.

Hmmmmm..........

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Oh......BTW.

RED will be announcing on......you guessed it.......November 3rd!

Jannard says, and I quote, he will be going "head to head" with Canon.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread....4-November-3rd...

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Boy are they going to feel dumb if it's just a printer.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

I think, at this point, its safe to assume that its not going to be a printer. Presumably RED have some inside knowledge (given that according to rumours a number of prototypes are being used in the field).

Its an interesting strategy of RED, to announce Scarlet on the same day as Canon. It will allow the audience to compare spec to spec (and probably most importantly in this category compare the prices).

Somebody is going to ave the wind knocked out of their sails if the cameras are aimed at the same users...

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Price war :)

Anyone old enough to remember riding in non airconditioned cars as dad pointed out the price wars on gas station signs, and you didn't get out of your car, 29 cents per gallon ? ? the first was a 51 chevy, then a ford falcon that had an amazing new feature, a rear window that went up and down with the push of a switch, how cool was that :) A used black and white television was 500 bucks and movie cameras were for the well off. Our house had a brownie. You could always tell when something good was coming on television because Dad could be heard yelling at one of us kids "right there, no back a little" only us old folks will no what that means.

Now we are waiting on 4k camcorders and Chris is out saving minnows, my how times have changed ! ! !

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

I love that!

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

I still stand by my point that buying a 4k camera today will not have very many uses for most of the video community. Blu-ray is limited to 1080p. Internet bandwidth in most of the world is far away from streaming 3k, 4k. Broadcaster's are compressing the 720p/1080i to death just to make room on the channel dial.

So it looks like 4k will be useful for major release movies, wildlife future proofing and reframing options in post. Outside of that you will not be able to deliver it to anybody. I just think it is too quick to make this leap for $10,000 and under cameras.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

So, Jannard's announcement does lend some credence to Canon announcing some type of digital cinema camera. Maybe.
Interesting times. I think this is the first time Jim has actually placed a real date on Scarlet's release. Now, whether you can actually place an order for the Scarlet on that date, we'll see. But he does mention shipping info, and that it will be for 2011.
More rumors on the Canon anouncement:

HD Magazine - HD Mag - Possible Specs For New Canon VideoCamera?

IF there is a new Canon camera, and IF it does use the XF 4:2:2, 50mbps codec - wow!

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

There is that Canon hair dryer again.....

Assuming the rumor is true, I am hoping somethings that were on board the 5D translate over. Things like the installation of Picture Syles such as the Technicolor Cinestyle picture style.. To me, that is something that helps a lot.

Then again, if this camera comes out with 15 stops of dynamic range, maybe Picture styles won't be as important.

Lets see, November 3, 2011- Sony VG-20 will be shipping at $ 1599 for the body only, Scarlet will be taking orders, Canon will announce something fantastic and new.

With all this building, I am guessing there are going to be more solid leaks coming ....

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Chris, I'm right there with you. Very close to ordering a VG20, but with twin announce dates a month and a half away, I have to wait (and boy will that wait be tough).

I loves me T2i, but she is getting a little long in the tooth... not that I'll sell her - we've been through too much.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Maybe Canon buys RED or they have formed a partnership for low-end and high-end. One side of my brain says NO, impossible. The other part says HELL YEAH, Canon has enough money to do that.

I also think RED can never compete in the consumer/prosumer market and Canon will have a very hard time to compete in the high-end segment (and so far has shown no interest at all). So a strategic partnership where Canon will produce Scarlet wouldn't be that bad for both of them. If Canon would also start using RED CODE and Scarlet would feature Canon's 50Mbps 4:2:2 1080p as a codec option....

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I never expected Go Pro to buy Cineform either.

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

Sorry Floris, but this is definitely *not* going to happen -- guaranteed. Canon may have enough money to buy, but RED will never sell. Also, RED has said continuously that Scarlet is a pro item and that they are a strictly pro-oriented manufacturer. They simply choose not to pursue the consumer market space, which is a race to the bottom. Nor will they license RedCode out to any of the other major camera makers.

And Canon is already in the high-end digital cinema market, with their line of PL-mount D-Cinema lenses, so yes, their interest is already there. So the side of your brain that says "impossible" is indeed the correct one. ;-)

Re: Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...
 

I'm really looking forward to Nov 3rd now that RED is going head-to-head with Canon. If the Nov 3 just turns out to be another XH-L1 refresh with XF305 features added in, this is going to be lopsided.

• Depth of field:
  Canon: forces every shot to have deep depth of field thanks to 1/3" chips.
  RED: Allows the cinematographer to use thinner depth of field, which is a massive design flaw.
  Verdict? A clear win by Canon.
• Color artifacts:
  Canon: lots, thanks to its 3-chip prism!
  RED: none.
  Verdict? *BOOM* head-shot, RED goes down.
• Resolution:
  Canon: 1080p
  RED: 3k.
  Verdict? 1080 is more than 3, people! Another win for Canon.
• Data rate:
  Canon: 50 Mbps
  RED: 0.2 Gbps
  Verdict? 0.2 is so tiny, they get crushed. Canon wins again.

I could go on, but it's already pretty obvious that when it comes to Hollywood, RED is way out of their league. Canon is going to take it all.