24p questions

[Jay Gladwell]

He probably meant 60i.

Jay

[Marlon Torres]

it seems using magic bullet makes 30 or 60i footage look more like film than just shooting 24p.

[Chris Hurd]

Hi Marlon,

There's a lot more to the "film look" than just the frame rate. We have an entire forum dedicated to it, so you might want to research the various discussions there. The link is:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=34

[Matthew Nayman]

I am getting tired of people saying that 24p look jumpy..

Go watch a feature film in your local theater. THAT'S WHAT 24 FPS looks like! Less Frames per second=more gaps in motion.

I love the XL2 24p

You should too!

[Ash Greyson]

24P absolutely looks jumpy, you dont notice it as much at the theater because the screen is huge, it is being SHOWN at 24P with no pulldown and it is being filmed by DPs who know how to make up for the limitations. You state it yourself, "more gaps in motion" means less smooth.

ash =o)

[Marty Hudzik]

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

24P absolutely looks jumpy, you dont notice it as much at the theater because the screen is huge, it is being SHOWN at 24P with no pulldown and it is being filmed by DPs who know how to make up for the limitations. You state it yourself, "more gaps in motion" means less smooth.

ash =o)

Examples:

A pan across a room at x speed may look jumpy.

A pan across that same room at x speed following an actor will look less jumpy because the actor is staying semi consistent in the center of the frame. This draws the eyes away from the jumpiness in the background.

A pan across that same room at the same x speed with a 35mm Prime lens following an actor is even less jumpy if the background is out of focus and that further drives the eyes to the subject that is is focus and staying somewhat consistent in the frame. Additionally the softer out of focus background eases the jumpiness by eliminating sharper edges.

24p requires careful planning.

And everyone should remember that it is less "juttery" when encoded in a traditional 3:2 pulldown rather thant the 2:3:3:2 also. I notice a nice improvement when watching the final 24P DVD's versus the raw footage.

FWIW.

[Marco Wagner]

I shoot almost everything at 30fps and mostly make it look more like film in post. 24p great and all but IMO very overated. It's all about content, lighting, DOF, and your post methods that really create the biggest similarity to film.

[Brian Wells]

Originally Posted by Marlon Torres

it looks like its doubling frames or something...any suggestions?

You are right, that doesn't look right to me, either. Take a few deep breaths..

First, nomenclature:
24ProgressiveNormal is 23.976Fps with a 2-3-2-3 pulldown, basically a "playback" format.
24ProgressiveAdvanced is 23.976Fps with a 2-3-3-2 pulldown, basically an "editing" format.

When shooting on an XL2, it's important to know whether the footage was recorded with a 2-3-2-3 pulldown OR with a 2-3-3-2 pulldown because the editing process is different for each. A mixmatch of settings will undoubtedly cause footage to appear a bit "off."

Successful editing of 24Fps content requires knowing all the steps and getting them all right. If you get all the steps right, the footage will look right.

Right now there isn't enough information presented here for you to get the help you need... Please, let us know the following:

1. What pulldown settings were used on the camera.
2. What editing software you are using along with the capture and timeline settings.

Then, someone can probably help. If you're on a Mac, I could probably help.

[Andrew Khalil]

Hello,
I'm just wondering which of the 2 24P modes (2:3 or 2:3:3:2) I should be using all the time and whether there are advantages to using one over the other in terms of the look. I don't plan on transferring to film, but I was just curious as to whether the second method will add to the look.
Thanks

[Kelly Wilbur]

Andrew, there was a long discussion about this at:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47160

Skip the first 5 posts as they have inaccurate or incomplete information. Start at my post (post 6) and from there on is a very detailed answer to your question.

[Andrew Khalil]

excellent, thanks for the link

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

i just tested 24p footage in 60i timline in premiere pro 1.5 and its way to jerky...
i did the AE 200% drop and its nice and smooth slo motion.... but still cant figure out how to edit 24p and 60i togther easily... if i missed something..post up..
thanx guys
Saturnin

[Marlon Torres]

Is it okay to record 24p and 60i footage on the same tape?

[Chris Hurd]

Yes, it is okay to record 24p and 60i footage on the same tape.

[Theresa Roque]

I really don't know where to edit my footage, shot in Canon XL2 at 24p and 16:9.

Currently I'm on a Pinnacle DV500 Plus-Premiere 6 system, and apparently they don't support 24p.

Tried using Premiere Pro 1.5 but somehow it couldn't connect to the DV500's capture board (DV/IEEE1394 option is displaying "Unable to connect to capture driver" stuff in Premiere 6, and that seems to be the same case for P-Pro 1.5 as it keeps saying my camera is "Offline" at the Device monitor + I couldn't see anything from my camera in the capture screen). I'm connected via firewire. Adobe (and Pinnacle) doesn't seem to support the XL2 at all? (Canon's fault for releasing XL2's 24p mode too late, I think?)

So maybe my DV500 board has finally been unable to keep up with the current 24p trend, and now is about to be trashed? (been using it for 8 years already, despite the frequent difficulties I've experienced with it. I'll surely miss its bluebox)

So I'm now considering buying a new capture board. What could be the -Best- NLE system for 24p 16:9 Canon XL2 footage out there? One that could also support analog input, not just digital (via firewire)? Currently eyeing Edius NX for HDV because it still has analog support (like DV500... not sure though if they have solid support for 24p 16:9 footage) but I want it to work with Vegas...

Or could I just buy a generic IEEE 1394 OHCI firewire card to work with Vegas? (is there image quality sacrifice here if ever? I would want to work faster so I'd really appreciate it if there's some realtime stuff in the NLE system too, like in DV500). Please suggest anything worth the price.