24p questions

Joe Winchester · February 3rd, 2006, 09:44 AM

Oh, and...

When working in 24p (basic), you are actually editing in 29.97fps. Your 30p graphis should look fine in this timeline. You can output from aftereffects in 29.97 too, instead of 30fps, if you don't like the look.

Paul Cuoco · February 3rd, 2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Reynolds

Is there a way to add 3:2 pull down to 24p renders coming out of after effects?

Yes it's one of the options in the render queue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Reynolds

Should I just go ahead and shoot 24pa, edit in 24p timeline and do all my graphics in 24p then out-put to a 24p DVD? This sounds the best, but I have never done it and this is a one time event (kind of. It would be not as ideal to do it some other time), and I don't want to end up with footage that’s jerky, strobey etc...

24PA would be best as it keeps all your footage 24p and allows your DVD to add 3:2 pull down on output to standard TV. It also means you're working with 6 less frames per second which means faster renders.

If you don't want to use this project to learn about it, then I would say shoot standard 24P which lays 3:2 pull down with it to the tape, and do your graphics 24P and render with pull down, editing in a 29.97 timeline.

Or... shoot 30P and do your graphics in 30P, editing in a standard timeline. It'll look about the same with no need to interlace or add pull down.

Just my 2 cents.

Jonathan Reynolds · February 6th, 2006, 01:45 AM

Thanks for the advice guys, I went ahead and shot in 24pa. This camera is really neat. Although unfortunately I still have to adjust to the settings on the camera. I may have had the white balance off or something, the colors look off, too sturated or something, but its useable. The whole setup was rushed as the stage had to be used for an event. I used cine gamma, maybe cine colors too. Gain was at 0, and shutter was at 1/48. Iris was some where around F2ish.

Here is a screen capture:
http://www.geocities.com/unklejman/angieLaurye.jpg

Dave Morgan · February 23rd, 2006, 12:55 AM

how come when you capture video at 24p (either in 2:3 or 2:3:3:2) you see mass interlaceing crap, when you look at the raw video on your pc. but if you look at the 30p footage there is none, its clean

?

Ash Greyson · February 23rd, 2006, 01:28 AM

The 24p is still wrapped in the 60i stream... you need remove the pulldown frames when you capture 2:3:3:2. In 2:3 you will have the 24P inside the 60i. In 30P there are no extra frames, hence no interlace artifacts.

ash =o)

Eugene Weaver · February 27th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

The 24p is still wrapped in the 60i stream... you need remove the pulldown frames when you capture 2:3:3:2. In 2:3 you will have the 24P inside the 60i. In 30P there are no extra frames, hence no interlace artifacts.

ash =o)

so...is there a reason to use the 23:32 or 2:3 pulldown at all? Or should I just use the 30P? I don't quite understand the whole deal with 23:32 or 2:3 pulldown and what it does for me.

If I shoot in 2:3 Pulldown (which I have been doing for my last three features) then I edit the footage for output via idvd will there be a difference if I would instead shoot in 30P? What is the best option to get the best "film like" look?

Geoff Voorhees · February 27th, 2006, 03:38 PM

When you view raw footage on a monitor, you will get the interlacing look, but once you render it out and onto a DVD, it should be fine. You should also be able to test this by displaying the footage on a TV screen. Just make sure your timeline (24p, 30p )and size (4:3 or 16:9) is correct, anamorphic is checked for 16:9, 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal is checked (if used) during capture. My understanding is that it's best to use 2:3:3:2 removal, especially if you desire to eventually output to film. There have been posts in the past that cover 2:3:3:2 more in depth.

Jeff McElroy · February 27th, 2006, 03:48 PM

24p Advanced (2:3:3:2 pulldown) is more efficient for dvd-end applications as well, and really should be the preferred cadence if your NLE can handle it.

Ash Greyson · February 27th, 2006, 10:00 PM

Matter of preference but for DVD I prefer 30P. Smoother motion but still progressive.

ash =o)

Matthew Nayman · February 28th, 2006, 09:43 AM

The whole 24p thing has been the source of much disagreement.

in 24p 2:3 you get a 24p look that is useable in 60i timeline. Yes there are interlaced frames, but when viewed on a TV it plays back looking like 24p. Jsut don't pause!@ 24p 2:3:3:2 is if you are planning on exporting to a 24p DVD (progressive!!!) or back to film (a transfer to 16 or 35). The 2:3:3:2 cadence can be removed with your NLE to give a TRUE 24 fps. The 24p 2:3 cannot (wihtout some loss of frames). However, I usually shoot 2:3 cause I know I am not going back out to film or progressive DVD so the choice is yours. 30p looks too fake to me (videoish) and, if you did want to do out to film, you pretty much can't.

Ash Greyson · February 28th, 2006, 01:23 PM

Matter of taste, 30p for action is recommended by myself and others. 30P does limit a film out and a Pal conversion. IMHO the film out thing comes up WAY too often for something that is, at best, a gigantic longshot.

ash =o)

Jason Varner · March 3rd, 2006, 12:46 AM

It's funny how much time people waste worrying about filmout. How many shorts or features shot on the XLs have ever been transferred to film? I know of 2. It's like the buzz surrounding HDV. I mean it's great that the sub 10G market is heading that direction but right now what's the deliverable? HDCam? Film? HDDVD will probably answer these questions but those jerks are still fighting over media/codecs. And another thing........Oh sorry about that I'm ranting. I like 30p it's nice. To me its looks more like film than 24p because of it's smoother cadence. The first time I saw 24p (on the canon) it looked like I was capturing. Once you get used to it it disappears but you never never get a second chance to make a first impression. Good Luck, Jason.

Dave Morgan · March 6th, 2006, 10:38 PM

ill just stick with 30p

im used to it from my gl2, and its not like it looks bad.

Matthew Nayman · March 7th, 2006, 06:55 AM

If you shoot a few things in 24p 2:3 (not 2:3:3:2) and burn them to a DVD and watch them on a TV (not a 24p DVD, just regualr 29.97 DVD), you will see how great 24p looks. On a moniter (expecially LCD) it can look strobey and boring, but on a CRT it looks great.

Eric Powell · April 6th, 2006, 01:53 PM

To All:

I'm shooting a short film this weekend and there are a few shots that require me to point the camera at a TV playing video. I'm shooting the rest of the film 24p w/ a 1/48 shutter - will this cause flickering on the screen?

Please offer suggestions.

Thanks,

Eric

February 23rd, 2006, 12:55 AM	#424
Dave Morgan Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 293	XL2 24P VS 30P there is interlacing on 24p how come when you capture video at 24p (either in 2:3 or 2:3:3:2) you see mass interlaceing crap, when you look at the raw video on your pc. but if you look at the 30p footage there is none, its clean ?

March 3rd, 2006, 12:46 AM	#432
Jason Varner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 119	Delusions of Grandeur It's funny how much time people waste worrying about filmout. How many shorts or features shot on the XLs have ever been transferred to film? I know of 2. It's like the buzz surrounding HDV. I mean it's great that the sub 10G market is heading that direction but right now what's the deliverable? HDCam? Film? HDDVD will probably answer these questions but those jerks are still fighting over media/codecs. And another thing........Oh sorry about that I'm ranting. I like 30p it's nice. To me its looks more like film than 24p because of it's smoother cadence. The first time I saw 24p (on the canon) it looked like I was capturing. Once you get used to it it disappears but you never never get a second chance to make a first impression. Good Luck, Jason.

April 6th, 2006, 01:53 PM	#435
Eric Powell Tourist Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1	Recording 24p footage of a TV screen To All: I'm shooting a short film this weekend and there are a few shots that require me to point the camera at a TV playing video. I'm shooting the rest of the film 24p w/ a 1/48 shutter - will this cause flickering on the screen? Please offer suggestions. Thanks, Eric

February 3rd, 2006, 09:44 AM	#421
Joe Winchester Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 125	Oh, and... When working in 24p (basic), you are actually editing in 29.97fps. Your 30p graphis should look fine in this timeline. You can output from aftereffects in 29.97 too, instead of 30fps, if you don't like the look.

February 6th, 2006, 01:45 AM	#423
Jonathan Reynolds Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4	Thanks for the advice guys, I went ahead and shot in 24pa. This camera is really neat. Although unfortunately I still have to adjust to the settings on the camera. I may have had the white balance off or something, the colors look off, too sturated or something, but its useable. The whole setup was rushed as the stage had to be used for an event. I used cine gamma, maybe cine colors too. Gain was at 0, and shutter was at 1/48. Iris was some where around F2ish. Here is a screen capture: http://www.geocities.com/unklejman/angieLaurye.jpg

February 23rd, 2006, 01:28 AM	#425
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	The 24p is still wrapped in the 60i stream... you need remove the pulldown frames when you capture 2:3:3:2. In 2:3 you will have the 24P inside the 60i. In 30P there are no extra frames, hence no interlace artifacts. ash =o)

February 27th, 2006, 03:38 PM	#427
Geoff Voorhees New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: United States Posts: 18	When you view raw footage on a monitor, you will get the interlacing look, but once you render it out and onto a DVD, it should be fine. You should also be able to test this by displaying the footage on a TV screen. Just make sure your timeline (24p, 30p )and size (4:3 or 16:9) is correct, anamorphic is checked for 16:9, 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal is checked (if used) during capture. My understanding is that it's best to use 2:3:3:2 removal, especially if you desire to eventually output to film. There have been posts in the past that cover 2:3:3:2 more in depth.

February 27th, 2006, 03:48 PM	#428
Jeff McElroy Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 91	24p Advanced (2:3:3:2 pulldown) is more efficient for dvd-end applications as well, and really should be the preferred cadence if your NLE can handle it.

February 27th, 2006, 10:00 PM	#429
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Matter of preference but for DVD I prefer 30P. Smoother motion but still progressive. ash =o)

February 28th, 2006, 09:43 AM	#430
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	The whole 24p thing has been the source of much disagreement. in 24p 2:3 you get a 24p look that is useable in 60i timeline. Yes there are interlaced frames, but when viewed on a TV it plays back looking like 24p. Jsut don't pause!@ 24p 2:3:3:2 is if you are planning on exporting to a 24p DVD (progressive!!!) or back to film (a transfer to 16 or 35). The 2:3:3:2 cadence can be removed with your NLE to give a TRUE 24 fps. The 24p 2:3 cannot (wihtout some loss of frames). However, I usually shoot 2:3 cause I know I am not going back out to film or progressive DVD so the choice is yours. 30p looks too fake to me (videoish) and, if you did want to do out to film, you pretty much can't.

February 28th, 2006, 01:23 PM	#431
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Matter of taste, 30p for action is recommended by myself and others. 30P does limit a film out and a Pal conversion. IMHO the film out thing comes up WAY too often for something that is, at best, a gigantic longshot. ash =o)

March 6th, 2006, 10:38 PM	#433
Dave Morgan Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 293	ill just stick with 30p im used to it from my gl2, and its not like it looks bad.

March 7th, 2006, 06:55 AM	#434
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	If you shoot a few things in 24p 2:3 (not 2:3:3:2) and burn them to a DVD and watch them on a TV (not a 24p DVD, just regualr 29.97 DVD), you will see how great 24p looks. On a moniter (expecially LCD) it can look strobey and boring, but on a CRT it looks great.