Importing 12bit, 4 channel audio into NLE's is dependent on the brand. Some only support 2 channel capture, they just don't recognize channel 3 and 4 on the firewire. In that you need to capture 3 and 4 analog. Some NLE's support channel 3 and 4 capture, but require two passes, so the capture takes twice as long but it's in sync.

If your looking for a 1 chip camera that matches (closest) the XL1 the Optura Pi is it. Anything else will not match as well. Tapes also interchange fine. Off hand I don't know about the machines you mention. I doubt the Walkman supports 4 channel. Several higher end decks support ($4,000 and up) support 4 channel dubbing between tapes. You might want to repost just that question, because I know there are some DSR-11 users, as well as Panasonic users.

Jeff

In response to the question raised about playing back Canon shot tapes in Sony equipment raised at the top of this thread, I've had some issues playing stuff shot on the XL1 back in my Sony VX-DHR1000 DV VTR (the DV version of the DSR30 deck, came out several years ago)....

I sometimes (more frequently than I would care to admit) get drop-out style artifacts when trying to capture to my NLE or trying to output to my duplication rack... I'm fairly confident that it is a compatibility issue instead of strictly a tape speed issue as my deck WILL spool up to speed to playback DVCam material (which of course means the tape moves 50% faster across the heads), which was never a posted capability of the DHR1000...

The nice thing however is that the data track seems to come over intact if you ever use that...

Good shooting

mini DV playback decks
 

I am interested in info(cost,vendors, etc) on decks that allow for playback of miniDV videotape. I would prefer to use a deck rather than my Xl1, and also because it would be nice to have a deck to deck option for creating protection masters, etc. Also, are there mini DV playback decks that are firewire-ready for capturing to my non-linear program?

All DV decks are FireWire-ready by definition.

What's your budget? DV decks run anywhere from $900 to more than $30,000.

I was interested as well, and decided since I did not need or want the DV deck on my entertainment system much, but rather on my computer to capture and edit I opted to get a ZR45MC Cam as my "deck". This way I can beat it up, and still have a slum around cam and being a Cancon I get full compatability with my GL2 tapes. And it was half the cost of a deck. And it is portable so when I want to show tapes somewhere I just grab the ZR45 and off I go. Ordered the Lenmar LIC-535 for over 8 hours of battery use. SO if I get a couple of years out of it then I toss it if it acts up and go for whatever is out then. JVC has a DV - SVHS combo deck, but it runs over $1000 and I don't know if it has firewire.

decks
 

Thanks for the info...I'm not looking for extremely sophisticated hardware, rather a reliable deck for capturing footage to my drives, or for playback to a monitor. I'm not looking to drop 30K, minimal investment would suffice.
Tim

Okay, let's start to narrow it down then...

Do you need Mini-DV only, or will you require a deck that can handle the larger full-size DV cassettes? In other words, with Mini DV, you're looking at 80 minute run times (two hours in LP mode); or more than four hours on a deck that accepts Mini DV as well as the full-size DV casettes.

At just under $2,000 the Panasonic AG-DV2000 is the least expensive full-size DV deck available.

For now, miniDV only...basically, a deck for playback to monitor and for digitizing. Ideally, a deck that both plays AND records would be nice, so that I may export from computer a finished piece to it, mastering back to miniDV. Prices??...
Tim

All DV decks play and record.

Consider the Panasonic AG-DV1000:

http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/vtrs_vcrs/f_ag-dv1000.html

Street price is about $1000. The only other options less expensive than this are two portable Sony "walkman" style DV decks, one without an LCD screen appx. $600, the other with an LCD screen appx. $900. Hope this helps,

Chris---Thanks, your info is most helpful.
Tim

I would certainly recommend the Pana DV1000. I've recently purchased one and it's truly a commercial deck, with a heavy duty transport. The Sony Walkman style decks are consumer grade camera transports and the case is plastic (puffed plastic (tm)). The Sony higher end stuff is well built but it's a lot more money.

This is a can link but allthe info is the same except the price. http://www.panasonic.ca/English/Broadcast/broadcast/dvformat/ag_dv1000p.html

what would you guys suggest for a dv/minidv deck? whats the cheapest and whats the best?

There is no such thing as a "cheap" full-size DV / MiniDV deck.

The least expensive option I know of is a Sony unit which is a dual deck, with Super VHS on one side and full-size DV on the other. This is the WV-DR7 and it is not sold outside of Japan, but Tim Selander, a member here, can export one to you if you're interested. See http://www.tokyonics.com/ for details.

Outside of that, consider the Panasonic AG-DV2000, which accepts both full size and MiniDV cassettes, for about $2000. JVC will (finally) have a full-size DV deck out soon but I don't think it's available just yet. Hope this helps,

Mini-Dv deck
 

Hey Tim, I am selling my almost new AG-DV 1000. A great deck, it has roughly four hours on the heads. I bought it in july of this year. It is clean and has a flawless finish still.
I am asking $700. BH Photo asks $919 new.

Thanks Chet....very interested. Re-contact me at tftonner@hotmail.com to discuss details.
Thanks,
Tim Tonner

Deck or second Cam
 

I am producing a DVD for Gallery exhibition and limited release. Most of the imagery is being shot with a GL2. I am now looking for a unit to capture and view material on and I am wondering whether to rent a higher end deck, buy something like the sony video walkman deck or simply buy another basic camera (like the Elura for instance) to take the beating I don't want my GL2 to take...Money is an issue. I would appreciate ANY ideas or comments on this dilemma...

Hello David,

Welcome to DVinfo.net!

If money is an issue, you might want to consider a used DV camera. It is the least expensive way to view and capture your footage. There have been several threads on here that have talked about this topic.

The Elura that you mentioned is camera worth looking for. If you do go the second camera route, it is also nice to have a second rig available for B-Roll shots.

Thanks Paul,

I have found some information on other threads which as helped me hash out a couple of things. One of my big considerations is whether there might be quality loss using a cheaper camera-Do you know if there is a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and the heads on a GL2? Would there be a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and one of the Sony Video Walkmans?

<<<-- Originally posted by David Crompton : Thanks Paul,

I have found some information on other threads which as helped me hash out a couple of things. One of my big considerations is whether there might be quality loss using a cheaper camera-Do you know if there is a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and the heads on a GL2? Would there be a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and one of the Sony Video Walkmans? -->>>

Your welcome David. From what I understand, there should not be a loss of quality if you used a Elura or less expensive camera.

Regarding the difference between heads on an Elura vs. a Sony Video Walkman, I am really not sure.

I am sure that somebody will jump in and help answer this question.

Hi David,
Unlike analog formats, dv is dv. That is, it's basically a bitstream much like a file on your computer. So faithful reproduction and transfer diferences aren't an issue regardless of what you use.

Since it looks as if you've already done some research into the issue here there's probably little else I can add. I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. (Much) Better transport performance during capture, designed for the task, etc. Also, camera transports just aren't designed for heavy capture duty. But if you're only planning to transfer, say, a tape a week you might as well just use your camera.

What exactly is meant by transfer performance? I assume it is the speed and accuracy with which it moves back and forth?

Good question. Speed and accuracy are basically the key characteristics. Tapes fast-forward and rewind much faster in a deck. Cueing positioning is also much faster. That is, decks are designed to find and position to specific frames on a tape with much less thrashing than a camera's transport. Scrubbing forward and backward with a deck also requires much less mechanical wear than with a camera's transport (which is designed with specific motion modes can take a feww seconds to change whenever the tape direction is reversed). Etc.

As I noted, if you're not planning to capture many tapes weekly or monthly and if you normally just grab the whole tape during capture and later slice it up with your editor then I'd recommend that you just use your main camera and save the expense altogether. Such usage is really not going to unduly wear it out.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. -->>>

I'm pondering getting a deck rather than using my XL1 while editing. The Panasonic AG-DV1000 is on the list but what does the panel think of the Sony DV1000??? Something that doubles up as a deck AND a field monitor sounds good to me... If Porta-brace make a case for them someone must be using it!!


Regards

Ross

The Sony Walkman field decks are nice. But you pay a dear premium for their portability/compact design and the integrated lcd monitor. If those are features you don't need get a more stationary design.

I went the second cam route. It is not as good as a real deck, but has its advantages when you want to have a knock around cam or a second cam for some stuff. I used the GL2 to shoot a friends wedding. The GL2 was on the tripod, then I left it stationary for the ceremony and then took the seocnd came (ZR45MC) around for some angle shots. Worst problem is the quality difference of the 2 cams, but I played it off as the difference in view poitns, the hand held lower quality being the participants viewpoint where the GL2 was more the "staged" view point. The only thing different I would do would be skip the ZR45 and go for maybe a Sony TRV27 or soemthing as I beleive the image quality would be closer then, I don't think the Canon ZR line (although a popular best seller) holds its own against the Sonys in thew same class.

If you try a deck you will NEVER want to go back to using a camera. The decks are more robust and handle jogging and shuttling MUCH faster than a camera. Decks can also fast forward and rewind MUCH faster than any camera. Plus, the deck can stay connected to the computer and TV 100% of the time - no more connecting and disconnecting wires just to use a camera.

Decks are GREAT. I am using a Panasonic AG-DV2000 which has performed tremendously for nearly 3 years.

I guess it is a matter of preference. The deck appears to have advantages, but I usually just copy in my video and do everything else ont he computer, then if I need to keep a DV master I output the master back to the cam. Then again I am a novice and only do simply shoot and editing, maybe in a year or so when I move up I will think about it, but by then I'll want a secodn GL2 to do multi-angle shoots!

deck or B Cam
 

On the hunch that you will probably do more, rather than less, video I give a nod to a deck. I've had a Sony DHR-1000 for several years and it's been a work horse. It wasn't cheap and I'm sure there are better decks for less money (see Ken's suggestions) on the market now. Running a tape back and forth in a deck a few times is a totally different experience than doing the same moves with a camera's transport. I suppose if you a relatively certain you won't be doing any follow up projects you could go with the B cam.

FWIW

Do any of you use a DV Deck?
 

Does anyone here use a DV deck for their NLE? If you do, what type do you use, and why did you choose that one over another?

Thanks
Paul

Absolutely. Have a Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck. It works GREAT.

Not sure what I am looking for, but please read
 

I am looking to transfer my DV footage to my computer and back. I don't want to use my Canon XL1 because I don't want to wear out parts on it.

Is there like a Separate unit I can buy to do this? Or do I have to buy another DV camera?

If I have to buy another DV camera, will the quailty of the picture degrade since I am using a lessor DV cam to transfer the footage?

I would do a search on this subject, but not sure what to look for.

Thanks in Adavance!

I think I will make a small donation to this site for all this good info!

I am not sure about an external device you can use thats not a Mini DV camera, but using a lower quality camera like a 1 chip will not degrade the quality of the image.

You can use a DV deck such as the Sony DSR-11 or you could use another camera. There are many different decks out there that would work for this, the DSR-11 because of it's price, seems to be a favorite if you are using DV over firewire.

Sony DSR-20...reliable, smooth transport action, DV or mini-DV

When the data is traveling over firewire it is all ones and zeros so it will not care how many chips the camera has or how good or bad the lens is. It doesn't lose anything in quality.

You other alternative is to buy a DV deck which like cameras can vary wildly in price.

Rick

Ed,

Why did you choose the Panasonic? Was the ability to read DVCPRo important to you or was it just the best choice at the time?

Rick

DSR-20.

Absolutely reliable for the past almost 4 years. Does everything I ask.

Because it will run from 12 VDC, it is quite useful in the field.

Now of course the 20 has been replaced by the 25 with its LCD screen which I do covet a bit.

I bought it 3 years ago. I don't know how many of the other models were available then but there, definitely, were not as many as today. There were not that many MiniDV players listed in the catalogs I acquired at that time and I wanted a good, heavy duty, unit. It has been.

To this point, I have only used it for MiniDV but it can definitely handle full size DV tapes as well. I leave it plugged into the computer all the time and use it for pass-thru for external monitor viewing and VHS taping. I can also use it to pass-thru the other direction as well (i.e. capturing a VHS tape via firewire).

For me, it has just worked. No particular reason for purchase other than it was what I found at the time that met my specifications. I have never regretted having this deck.

A very common solution is to buy a cheap 1-CCD consumer DV camcorder like the Canon ZR40, and use it as a playback deck. Should be around $500 or less. This will be less expensive than an actual DV deck, which will cost around $1000 -- although our sponsor Pro-Tape has a JVC dual deck (Mini-DV and S-VHS) for $685 refurb, $885 new. See www.dvinfo.net/sponsors

This may seem stupid, but, when firewiring, does the "don't mix your tape brand" caveat still apply, or is that only when shooting?